MSI K9N SLI Platinum w/ Athlon II-X2 "Regor"

[Lucky Stripes 99]

For those of you interested in installing AMD's latest dual core AM3 Athlon processor in an MSI K9N SLI Platinum (Nv570-SLI, Skt AM2) motherboard, don't bother. The system will not POST with an Athlon II-X2 processor installed. Disappointing, but hardly unexpected.

I have read elsewhere that attempts to use AM2+ Phenoms in the K9N Platinum series have met with similar failure. It appears that MSI has programmed their BIOS not to boot with unrecognized processors. This is rather sad because the nearly identical Asus M2N-SLI Deluxe (also Nv570-SLI, Skt AM2) does support 125W Phenom X4s rock solid with the proper BIOS update.

I was hoping that if the Asus M2N-SLI could handle a fancy Phenom X4, then maybe my K9N SLI Platinum might handle an Athlon II-X2 since it is more similar to the classic X2 processors (dual core, no L3 cache) that it does support. Wishful thinking on my part.

MSI Support gave me a generic response that the K9N SLI Platinum does not support any AM2+ or AM3 series processors under any circumstances. However, I really wonder if this is due to a technical limitation or a political decision to abandon their AM2 line-up.

Does anyone here have more insight on how compatible AM3 is with AM2? I've heard that the AM3 can slow down and use legacy memory bus and hyper-transport speeds, as well as legacy power plane modes. In theory, could my K9N use a Regor if MSI simply updated their BIOS? Are there any hacked BIOSes in the wild?


Test System:
K9N SLI Platinum (MS-7250 v1.0)
AMI BIOS v3.9
AMD Athlon II X2 250 (AM3, 3.0×2)
Mushkin PC2-6400 2GB (5-4-4-12-2T) × 2
Nvidia 9500GT PCIe video
Coolmax 450W power supply

 

[tcsenter]

Originally posted by: Lucky Stripes 99
I was hoping that if the Asus M2N-SLI could handle a fancy Phenom X4, then maybe my K9N SLI Platinum might handle an Athlon II-X2 since it is more similar to the classic X2 processors (dual core, no L3 cache) that it does support. Wishful thinking on my part.

You were hoping a motherboard that has not received a BIOS update since 10/2007 would have the same support for recently-launched processors as a motherboard whose "initial release" BIOS is dated 11/2007 and received updated BIOS as recently as 7/2009? The K9N SLI Platinum received its last BIOS before the M2N-SLI was even launched.

Of course these results are hardly unexpected. MSI is even nice enough to provide a CPU support chart which clearly does not mention support for any AM2+ models. BTW, what does the M2N-SLI supporting Phenom X4 have to do with the MSI board supporting Athlon II X2? They're not the same processor. The M2N-SLI does not support any Athlon II X2 models, either.

Did you think this through at all?

 

[Lucky Stripes 99]

Harsh comment. Why the hate?

Using an unsupported processor on a motherboard before a BIOS update is released is nothing new. Go look at the CPU forums going back to the days of the 486 and you'll see plenty of stories of people dropping new and third party processors into their motherboards with varying degrees of success. It has always been a roll of the dice.

Did I think this through? Yeah. Articles going back to 2007 state that AM3 processors *should* work in AM2 motherboards, albeit with slower bus speeds and higher power consumption. There are several boards by other manufacturers (like the M2N-SLI previously mentioned) that are socket AM2 using the Nv570-SLI chipset that work with HT3.0/DDR2-1066 processors that must fall back to HT1.0/DDR2-800 speeds (like the Phenom I X4 previously mentioned). So, I knew that the core chipset could work with post-AM2 processors.

I specifically picked the Athlon II X2 over the Phenom II X2 because the former lacks an L3 cache which the BIOS might have failed to initialize properly, even though an L3 cache would be even more valuable with the slower DDR2-800 memory bus. I also picked the Athlon II X2 over a Phenom I X3 or X4 because the former only has two cores, which is the number of cores the board has been certified to handle. Lastly, the Athlon II X2 appears to operate right around the voltage levels that the K9N Platinum supports.

What else did I think? That the system might always boot up with an "unrecognized processor, press F1 to continue" message. Or that Cool-n-Quiet wouldn't work at all, or with a hotter idle voltage. Or any number of other quirks. I *wasn't* expecting it to work at all. But, the test only cost me an hour of my time and a small dab of thermal compound.

Hopefully, I saved somebody some time, money and effort. I was also hoping to start some dialog as to why some AM2 boards can work with AM2+ and AM3 processors, while others can't. Google shows that "am3 processor on am2 motherboard" is a very commonly searched topic, so it appears that I am not alone in wondering this. But if going around and calling people idiots is your thing, then so be it.

 

[Lucky Stripes 99]

A user by the name of wwenigma over on the Asus forums is claiming that they were successful in using an Athlon II X2 Regor 240 in their Asus M2N-E. Another user by the name of sorance2000 claims to have used the 250 in their board, and was even able to overclock it to 3.5GHz.

The M2N-E is a socket AM2 board (pre-AM2+) released in mid-2006 that uses the Nv570 Ultra chipset, and is almost identical to the MSI K9N Platinum.

Link

Interesting news.

 

[tcsenter]

Originally posted by: Lucky Stripes 99
The M2N-E is a socket AM2 board (pre-AM2+) released in mid-2006 that uses the Nv570 Ultra chipset, and is almost identical to the MSI K9N Platinum.

This is interesting only if your last computer build was a 486. Welcome to 2006, when numerous LGA 775 boards couldn't support 65nm Core 2 Duo or never received a BIOS. Welcome to 2007, when numerous AM2 boards couldn't support Phenom or never received a BIOS. Welcome to 2008, when numerous LGA 775 boards that supported 65nm Core 2 Duo couldn't support 45nm models or never received a BIOS, or when numerous AM2+ boards that supported 65nm Phenom never received a BIOS for 45nm models.

The M2N-E fully supports AM2+ Phenom, Phenom-based Athlon X2 (Kuma), and received six BIOS updates in 2008, the last of which was one year later than MSI K9N Platinum. Again, K9N Platinum does NOT support ANY AM2+ models, Phenom or otherwise, and received its last BIOS in 2007. When you find an ASUS board supporting 45nm CPUs that hasn't received a BIOS update since 2007, let us know. Until then, you are comparing apples or oranges. Both the M2N-SLI and M2N-E were on the official ASUS AM2+ compatibility list.

There were PLENTY of ASUS AM2 boards that never received support for AM2+, and plenty of AM2+ boards that never received support for the 45nm. I know, you'll find numerous posts of mine on ASUS Forums having this exact same conversion with whiners and complainers like you over it. BTW, numerous users of the K9N SLI Platinum have already "discovered" this information a year ago. Its very old news to everyone, except apparently to you.

 

[Lucky Stripes 99]

The unanswered question is why the K9N doesn't work with AM2+ or AM3 processors, officially or otherwise.

MSI tech support is using the defense that AM3 is completely incompatible with AM2 boards. We now know that is not true. MSI tech support will not answer questions about incompatibility with AM2+ processors in their AM2 boards. Is this due to a technical limitation, such as a incompatible voltage regulator, insufficient power phases, or is it because 2007 came around and they decided they were tired of updating old BIOS files? They won't answer. If it were the latter issue, then it gives hope that we might see a third party BIOS.

 

[tcsenter]

K9N SLI Platinum hasn't received a BIOS since 2007 because it was phased-out and replaced with K9N2 SLI Platinum. Why? None of your business. If you want to know the internal decisions that companies make, start your own.

 

[MSILame]

The reason this guy has so much hate is because he is probably sick of all the complaints. Why so many complaints? Well because they fail to support their own products properly. Why they havent updated the bios to support Phenom or other cpu I'm convinced is not a technical matter but a business one, as this guy has hinted towards. If it is a technical one then your competitors are more adept, and outlining its a technical issue in support response to customers would be appropriate.

Its common fact is that the AM3 cpu's are designed to be backward compatible with both AM2 and AM2+ chipsets. This is stated everywhere ranging from (most importantly) AMD themselves, media such as magazines, and across the internet from various highly regarded sources.

A good factor of AMD has always been to remain with same socket design for this reason. Look at the old Thunderbirds and subsequent model releases up until they finally changed socket with the Athlon 64. This is what they have done again with socket AM2, AM2+ and AM3.

The fact is MSI wants to push their new stuff and not follow through on what it has been designed to be. You realise motherboards are built upon technology from other companies, the failure here is to see through what it was supposed to be. Other mainboard manufacturers do. MSI does not even support its own products sufficiently or provide adequate response.

For this reason and as a computer dealer, I will never buy/resell MSI products again. I suggest others who are aware of this follow suit. Why am I making this choice? None of your business, but if you want to know the internal decisions that companies make, read this because I've been nice enough to tell you.

This has been a huge issue among many many MSI customers across the globe, so if you are reading this know that you are not alone.

Releasing a bios update with the cpu support that was intended by AMD would be the only recourse that would go some way to restoring the image of MSI in my eyes and those of many others. Or providing a better response than 'none of your business'. That however I'm confident will never happen.

 

[MSILame]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

Originally posted by: Lucky Stripes 99
I was hoping that if the Asus M2N-SLI could handle a fancy Phenom X4, then maybe my K9N SLI Platinum might handle an Athlon II-X2 since it is more similar to the classic X2 processors (dual core, no L3 cache) that it does support. Wishful thinking on my part.

You were hoping a motherboard that has not received a BIOS update since 10/2007 would have the same support for recently-launched processors as a motherboard whose "initial release" BIOS is dated 11/2007 and received updated BIOS as recently as 7/2009? The K9N SLI Platinum received its last BIOS before the M2N-SLI was even launched.

Of course these results are hardly unexpected. MSI is even nice enough to provide a CPU support chart which clearly does not mention support for any AM2+ models. BTW, what does the M2N-SLI supporting Phenom X4 have to do with the MSI board supporting Athlon II X2? They're not the same processor. The M2N-SLI does not support any Athlon II X2 models, either.

Did you think this through at all?

Yes very nice of them to let everyone know on cpu support list they wont support their own products as the chipset manufacturers intended. Are you aware AMD state themselves socket AM3 is backwards compatible with AM2 and AM2+?

Did you think that through at all..?

.

.

Hmmm is this something all companies can do, perhaps I can mail my customers 6 months after selling them a new system letting them know I will no longer offer support for my product, they are stupid for thinking so and (duh) they should buy my new model that I replaced the previous one with? Not a very good analogy but you get my point.