<< I would not worry to much, experiance the Pro2a for yourself. Just use good components doing it. >>
Amen to that...
Patrick Palm
Am speaking for PC Resources
<< I would not worry to much, experiance the Pro2a for yourself. Just use good components doing it. >>
Amen to that...
Patrick Palm
Am speaking for PC Resources
Thanks PCResources! I really can't stress enough how stable this system is. I get uptimes of 3-4 weeks (if I don't install software that needs rebooting) Its awesome!!
Just a quick one..how do we know if it's the hardware rather than the software causing the instabilty?
I nearly always blame the software?
Any way to verify this?
I nearly always blame the software?
Any way to verify this?
I'd pay good money for mine to be stable at this point. Half the time it won't even run the power rangers cd that my 3 year old has. Quake 3 benchmarks where it should, but it's very jerky when I try to play.
I installed the VIA 4in1 driver's and the latest *special* driver's for my Radeon. Made sure that the ATI agp driver was not installed. So I assume my system is running the VIA agp driver instead. The rest of the system runs ok until I try to install a software program. Many times I have to hit restart several times until the machine will restart.
Occasional pauses (not lockups) that happen at random. The system will just sit here and do nothing for 5-10 seconds. All of my components came from the old machine and it never did any of these things.
Going to give it a shot for a few more days and if it doesn't calm down I'm going to try my hardest to swap this mb with the MSI that's based on the 815 chipset and go Intel.
This is the exact same software setup that I had on the old machine as well.
I installed the VIA 4in1 driver's and the latest *special* driver's for my Radeon. Made sure that the ATI agp driver was not installed. So I assume my system is running the VIA agp driver instead. The rest of the system runs ok until I try to install a software program. Many times I have to hit restart several times until the machine will restart.
Occasional pauses (not lockups) that happen at random. The system will just sit here and do nothing for 5-10 seconds. All of my components came from the old machine and it never did any of these things.
Going to give it a shot for a few more days and if it doesn't calm down I'm going to try my hardest to swap this mb with the MSI that's based on the 815 chipset and go Intel.
This is the exact same software setup that I had on the old machine as well.
>><< How does one go about rating the quality of the components? Is it purely >>subjective or are some said components known to be better than others? You really >>sound like you know your stuff.......i just wanna know also...=) >>
>You unweld the components and test their capacity and their througput, as well as >their stamina and how they secure of the voltage holding... then you test the >signalling quality within a magnetic resistance chamber where each component has >to deliver the exact amount of data throughput... then you do a electronic circuit >conductive test and check out the conductivity of each signalling line per trace >of the circuits and the trace lines of the motherboard...
Would it not be better to unsolder solder joints instead of unwelding?
Capacity and throughput are used when judging data rates, more suitable
for testing chipsets, system level, and tranceivers.
Magnetic resistance chamber?!? LOL
How about a EMI chamber for measuring radiation/susceptibility?
Conductive test? Humm...I could stretch this a little and call it
a resistive test or conductance test, not to critical for data lines,
except for shorts/opens, or wonder about voltage drops due to the
resistance of the traces to components which draw a high current, thus
causing a voltage drop on the way to say, the CPU...
How about talking about capacitors and their ESR ratings? Or
about how long a given capacitor will last, especially electrolytics?
OS-CON caps are pretty decent. Tantalums are better in some ways,
if you know how to design with them properly, especially in cold
environments where the electolyte gets too cold to function properly.
Whatever happened to basic reliability tests like vibration and
thermal extremes and thermal shock testing? We could go a little further
and talk about HALT/HASS testing.
Shoot, just look at the board, and see how well the toroid inductors
are wound.
Ever check out the onboard regulators and how well they respond, whether
they can handle the rated load or even transient response? Or foldback
response in the case of a short.
How about looking at the soldering and judging the quatity per IPC or
J-STD-2000?
Or you could look at how well components like large electrolytic
capacitors are mounted on a board, a big no-no is to stick those
things vertically like most motherboard makers on the market do,
and then have nothing to support them. Not good.
Didn't intend to flame you, your help in the forum is great, and
especially your patience. Free tech support, can't beat that.
My hats off to you in the support area. Some of the reasoning is
a bit thin for me, but I can't shake a stick at the MSI K7T Pro2-A.
Boy, motherboard makers sure are making boards thin (4 layers) these
days, aren't they? Sheesh, and I remember 6 and 8 layer small AT
form factor boards. Amazing there isn't more boards returned due
to flexing, as large as they are.
>You unweld the components and test their capacity and their througput, as well as >their stamina and how they secure of the voltage holding... then you test the >signalling quality within a magnetic resistance chamber where each component has >to deliver the exact amount of data throughput... then you do a electronic circuit >conductive test and check out the conductivity of each signalling line per trace >of the circuits and the trace lines of the motherboard...
Would it not be better to unsolder solder joints instead of unwelding?
Capacity and throughput are used when judging data rates, more suitable
for testing chipsets, system level, and tranceivers.
Magnetic resistance chamber?!? LOL
How about a EMI chamber for measuring radiation/susceptibility?
Conductive test? Humm...I could stretch this a little and call it
a resistive test or conductance test, not to critical for data lines,
except for shorts/opens, or wonder about voltage drops due to the
resistance of the traces to components which draw a high current, thus
causing a voltage drop on the way to say, the CPU...
How about talking about capacitors and their ESR ratings? Or
about how long a given capacitor will last, especially electrolytics?
OS-CON caps are pretty decent. Tantalums are better in some ways,
if you know how to design with them properly, especially in cold
environments where the electolyte gets too cold to function properly.
Whatever happened to basic reliability tests like vibration and
thermal extremes and thermal shock testing? We could go a little further
and talk about HALT/HASS testing.
Shoot, just look at the board, and see how well the toroid inductors
are wound.
Ever check out the onboard regulators and how well they respond, whether
they can handle the rated load or even transient response? Or foldback
response in the case of a short.
How about looking at the soldering and judging the quatity per IPC or
J-STD-2000?
Or you could look at how well components like large electrolytic
capacitors are mounted on a board, a big no-no is to stick those
things vertically like most motherboard makers on the market do,
and then have nothing to support them. Not good.
Didn't intend to flame you, your help in the forum is great, and
especially your patience. Free tech support, can't beat that.
My hats off to you in the support area. Some of the reasoning is
a bit thin for me, but I can't shake a stick at the MSI K7T Pro2-A.
Boy, motherboard makers sure are making boards thin (4 layers) these
days, aren't they? Sheesh, and I remember 6 and 8 layer small AT
form factor boards. Amazing there isn't more boards returned due
to flexing, as large as they are.
Patrick,
I noticed...http://www.pcresources.com/
"Founded in 1983, Personal Computer Resources began as an Apple Authorized Dealer, serving consumers and the business community with the latest in Apple products. Operating under new management in the mid 1990's, the company enhanced it's product offerings by complimenting the Apple product with a mix of PC technologies from companies such as Compaq, Hewlett Packard and Microsoft. Today, Personal Computer Resources distributes computer hardware and software, implements and supports network environments, and optimizes the integration of business technology throughout the region.
PCR offers a complete line of computers, servers and peripherals from industry leading manufacturers such as Compaq, Hewlett Packard and Apple. As an authorized value added reseller of these companies, PCR has become a trusted provider of high quality business computers. Each computer is optimized for use on a network system and is furnished with a manufacturer's warranty."
Don't see anything about motherboard design, where did you get your background?
I noticed...http://www.pcresources.com/
"Founded in 1983, Personal Computer Resources began as an Apple Authorized Dealer, serving consumers and the business community with the latest in Apple products. Operating under new management in the mid 1990's, the company enhanced it's product offerings by complimenting the Apple product with a mix of PC technologies from companies such as Compaq, Hewlett Packard and Microsoft. Today, Personal Computer Resources distributes computer hardware and software, implements and supports network environments, and optimizes the integration of business technology throughout the region.
PCR offers a complete line of computers, servers and peripherals from industry leading manufacturers such as Compaq, Hewlett Packard and Apple. As an authorized value added reseller of these companies, PCR has become a trusted provider of high quality business computers. Each computer is optimized for use on a network system and is furnished with a manufacturer's warranty."
Don't see anything about motherboard design, where did you get your background?
Gotta second the MSI board.
I've been running this K7T Pro2-A for three days, a 1.0 Ghz T-bird o/c to 1.2, 1.8 Vcore, and a teenie Cooler Master DP5-6H51, it has yet to crash, pretty impressive.
I've been running this K7T Pro2-A for three days, a 1.0 Ghz T-bird o/c to 1.2, 1.8 Vcore, and a teenie Cooler Master DP5-6H51, it has yet to crash, pretty impressive.
Jarhead:
Of course i meant unsolder and not unweld, i was a bit tired and therefore i made some bad choices here and there...
The magnetic resistance chamber is used because i deliver parts for military applications, and it does show you how well the board is sheilded from outer interference.
Your post is too long to answer right now, but i would say that as you know what you are talking about, you could probably understand what i meant with my post.
I will save your post and respond to it at a later time, either as a thread or a PM to you that you can post wherever you would like to.
<< Don't see anything about motherboard design, where did you get your background? >>
The company pcresources.com is not the company that i own, i do not even have a web page right now...
I am not your standard retailer, and i seldom sell products directly to customers (if i do, they are by requests) so i really have no use for a website...
I understand that you question my validity, and that is ok by me, maybe i will convince you about my knowledge, maybe not, it really does not matter much to me, but i will try to bring you better answers later on as i have already mentioned.
Patrick Palm
Am speaking for PC Resources
Of course i meant unsolder and not unweld, i was a bit tired and therefore i made some bad choices here and there...
The magnetic resistance chamber is used because i deliver parts for military applications, and it does show you how well the board is sheilded from outer interference.
Your post is too long to answer right now, but i would say that as you know what you are talking about, you could probably understand what i meant with my post.
I will save your post and respond to it at a later time, either as a thread or a PM to you that you can post wherever you would like to.
<< Don't see anything about motherboard design, where did you get your background? >>
The company pcresources.com is not the company that i own, i do not even have a web page right now...
I am not your standard retailer, and i seldom sell products directly to customers (if i do, they are by requests) so i really have no use for a website...
I understand that you question my validity, and that is ok by me, maybe i will convince you about my knowledge, maybe not, it really does not matter much to me, but i will try to bring you better answers later on as i have already mentioned.
Patrick Palm
Am speaking for PC Resources
Help! I've run out of options with my K7T Pro2-a.
I cannot get my IBM 75GXP hard drive to utilize DMA transfers.
Here are the pitiful HDTach v2.61 results.
Burst speed: 2.3MBps
Read speed average: 2.3MBps
CPU utilization: 99.4%
Random access time: 12.5ms
I have installed the latest drivers, 4.28v 4-in-1 and BIOS v2.2 to no avail. When I try to check the DMA box it pops up with an "unsupported hardware alert" message box and then gets unchecked. I have also made sure the VSD driver installed. Interestingly the vatapi.vxd driver, which came with the 4.28v 4-in-1 drivers, is the same in 4.25(1). Both are version 1.05. I thought there was supposed to be a difference between the bus master drivers in 2.15.0 and 3.01.1. The miniport drivers in 580_3011.exe (from Soltek) didn't work either and would lockup the computer when Windows was loading. CMOS reports ATA100 at bootup. I even dropped this back to ATA33 using the IBM switching utility. No success. The CDRW drive is working in DMA mode (box is checked anyway).
Patrick Palm of PCResources has mentioned problems (Jan/25/2001 11:51 PM) with IBM GXP drives and the 686B southbridge. Is this one of those problems?
Thanks in advance,
Kim B
---------------------------------------------------
Dual Boot Win98SE (4.10.2222 A) and Win2000
Duron 700MHz (not o/c)
MSI K7T Pro2-a with BIOS v2.2, 01-11-01
128MB PC133 Kingston ValueRam CL3
45GB IBM 75GXP on primary with 80-conductor cable
Sony 8x4x32x CDRW on secondary
Graphics Blaster RIVA TNT 16MB
Modem Blaster Flash 56K
AC97 on-board audio
Southbridge chip data
VT82C686B
0044CD
I cannot get my IBM 75GXP hard drive to utilize DMA transfers.
Here are the pitiful HDTach v2.61 results.
Burst speed: 2.3MBps
Read speed average: 2.3MBps
CPU utilization: 99.4%
Random access time: 12.5ms
I have installed the latest drivers, 4.28v 4-in-1 and BIOS v2.2 to no avail. When I try to check the DMA box it pops up with an "unsupported hardware alert" message box and then gets unchecked. I have also made sure the VSD driver installed. Interestingly the vatapi.vxd driver, which came with the 4.28v 4-in-1 drivers, is the same in 4.25(1). Both are version 1.05. I thought there was supposed to be a difference between the bus master drivers in 2.15.0 and 3.01.1. The miniport drivers in 580_3011.exe (from Soltek) didn't work either and would lockup the computer when Windows was loading. CMOS reports ATA100 at bootup. I even dropped this back to ATA33 using the IBM switching utility. No success. The CDRW drive is working in DMA mode (box is checked anyway).
Patrick Palm of PCResources has mentioned problems (Jan/25/2001 11:51 PM) with IBM GXP drives and the 686B southbridge. Is this one of those problems?
Thanks in advance,
Kim B
---------------------------------------------------
Dual Boot Win98SE (4.10.2222 A) and Win2000
Duron 700MHz (not o/c)
MSI K7T Pro2-a with BIOS v2.2, 01-11-01
128MB PC133 Kingston ValueRam CL3
45GB IBM 75GXP on primary with 80-conductor cable
Sony 8x4x32x CDRW on secondary
Graphics Blaster RIVA TNT 16MB
Modem Blaster Flash 56K
AC97 on-board audio
Southbridge chip data
VT82C686B
0044CD
does this board have an inherent problem with ibm gxp's? I am using three of these drives and would like to buy this board. how about radeon compatibility. Maybe the msi intel boards are better for me.
<< does this board have an inherent problem with ibm gxp's? >>
Yes, not unlike many other IDE controllers, it's not the board, it's the drive...
With the latest drivers, the soltek ATA-100 driver you should get it right...
If you mind the hassle go for the K7T PRO2 board instead...
Many new boards use the 686B southbridge, so with all new boards you would have the same problem, which would be solved with working drivers...
Patrick Palm
Am speaking for PC Resources
Haven't seen a problem here...I do have ATA-66 cables...
I've got two 75GXP 15Mb drives here, I'm getting 30.5 mbps burst,
no narrow spikes below 25 mbps.
One thing that may be different...I had these on a BX6 R1.0, and
thus I had to use the IBM utility to manually force them to ATA-33.
Haven't had the chance to change them back, and what little gain I
would get is truly not worth the effort or time.
I know that some old hard drives that I worked on in the military use
CRC checking back to the controller, wonder if the data communication
between drives and the controller is getting corrupted, and being resent
a few dozen times...
The utility is on the IBM site. It might be worth a try.
I've got two 75GXP 15Mb drives here, I'm getting 30.5 mbps burst,
no narrow spikes below 25 mbps.
One thing that may be different...I had these on a BX6 R1.0, and
thus I had to use the IBM utility to manually force them to ATA-33.
Haven't had the chance to change them back, and what little gain I
would get is truly not worth the effort or time.
I know that some old hard drives that I worked on in the military use
CRC checking back to the controller, wonder if the data communication
between drives and the controller is getting corrupted, and being resent
a few dozen times...
The utility is on the IBM site. It might be worth a try.
Downloaded the Soltek ata100 driver's and was ready to install them, but I don't know if I want to install the vxd or ide miniport driver's? Or both?
Thanks,
Thanks,
Never mind, saw PcResources post about the vsd being just as fast, stable, etc with lower cpu utilitzation.
Nope. Couldn't tell any difference. My biggest problem right now is I can't copy from one hard drive to another. I get an access denied error when writing to the c: drive.
Other than quake3 won't run smoothly, even though it benchmarks over 100fps at hq settings. Haven't even begun to diagnose this yet.
Other than quake3 won't run smoothly, even though it benchmarks over 100fps at hq settings. Haven't even begun to diagnose this yet.
Comments any one, on my DMA access problem? Seems I've tried most of the common solutions.
Jarhead:
I have tried the GXP at ATA-33 without success. May take your advice and try a different cable.
Jarhead:
I have tried the GXP at ATA-33 without success. May take your advice and try a different cable.
Besides the ATA-33 and using the ATA-66 cable, I am using VATAPI.VXD file version 1.05, and DMA is enabled.
Humm, *real* long shot, but I have seen this on a VLB Promise caching contoller and some WD drives... Which order is your drives on the cable, do you have the
master in the center or the master on the end? If nothing else fixes it...
Humm, *real* long shot, but I have seen this on a VLB Promise caching contoller and some WD drives... Which order is your drives on the cable, do you have the
master in the center or the master on the end? If nothing else fixes it...
Jarhead:
I only have one hard drive and it is on the cable end (black connector). Could try the middle. I am using vatapi.vxd version 1.05. Tried a 40 pin cable without success. May also try my 1.6 GB WD drive (UDMA-33) from my older computer and see if it has the same problem.
My main concern is whether this is a hardware problem or a driver/BIOS problem. If its hardware, hd or mbrd, I need to replace it before the warranty expires. If its software, then updates may eventually solve the problem. By the way, what is the warranty for the K7T Pro2-A?
Thanks for the suggestions.
I only have one hard drive and it is on the cable end (black connector). Could try the middle. I am using vatapi.vxd version 1.05. Tried a 40 pin cable without success. May also try my 1.6 GB WD drive (UDMA-33) from my older computer and see if it has the same problem.
My main concern is whether this is a hardware problem or a driver/BIOS problem. If its hardware, hd or mbrd, I need to replace it before the warranty expires. If its software, then updates may eventually solve the problem. By the way, what is the warranty for the K7T Pro2-A?
Thanks for the suggestions.
I just thought I would throw mny $.02 in here:
I have a K7T Pro 2A and a 30 GB 100ATA Quantum Fireball HD. It runs flawlessly at 100 with DMA enabled. I am using the end plug on the IDE cable. Never even the slightest problems with this rig. I love it.
This is with the 425 4n1 drivers (and beta 428s...tried them both).
My mobo was a week 53 (?? I guess dec 31) southbridge.
I have never updated the BIOS from the original as I have not had any need to yet.
Eric
I have a K7T Pro 2A and a 30 GB 100ATA Quantum Fireball HD. It runs flawlessly at 100 with DMA enabled. I am using the end plug on the IDE cable. Never even the slightest problems with this rig. I love it.
This is with the 425 4n1 drivers (and beta 428s...tried them both).
My mobo was a week 53 (?? I guess dec 31) southbridge.
I have never updated the BIOS from the original as I have not had any need to yet.
Eric
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