msconfig rendered useless in Windows 8x and 10

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
19,970
14,280
136
vDxwT.png


Why, MS, why? The whole point of msconfig was to make troubleshooting easy for everyone, in the event that someone is wondering whether some third party app or service is causing problems, within a few clicks and a reboot one can confirm or rule out that theory. By removing the startup items tab and saying that the user has to go elsewhere for that, it pretty much renders msconfig useless.

Does anyone know of a replacement for msconfig in Windows 8/10 or is this yet another feature that was faffed around with in a half-assed fashion?
 

Elixer

Lifer
May 7, 2002
10,371
762
126
So, open up Task Manager, and enable/disable startup programs there?

I don't see the problem, and I rather like it in the Task Manager location, under the Startup tab.
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
18,812
483
126
So now you know, instead of typing msconfig to manage startup items, you do three finger salute (CTRL+ALT+DEL) to bring up Task Manager.
 

Ketchup

Elite Member
Sep 1, 2002
14,558
248
106
Not that msconfic was hard, but I really like the new task manager, complete with startup tab, showing the relative impact of each item on system performance.

I guess the only confusing part is that MS even left the tab in System Configuration in the first place, but I suppose that is similar to asking we still have a Control Panel when we now have Settings.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
19,970
14,280
136
So now you know, instead of typing msconfig to manage startup items, you do three finger salute (CTRL+ALT+DEL) to bring up Task Manager.

You can't even manage services with Task Manager. You can stop them temporarily or invoke services.msc from TM. services.msc is good for working on a per-service basis, but that's about it.

For anyone who doesn't know what msconfig is (or was, apparently) for:

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...ion-tool/273dea8e-4cbe-47e9-8489-f400e879ce17


It would be a pretty tedious experience to use services.msc and TM to disable everything on startup that wasn't a core part of Windows (and not just under safe mode), for example.
 
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XavierMace

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2013
4,307
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I use task manager all the time to disable startup items. I'm not sure what your problem is with it. This would seem to be another example of you just disliking change.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
19,970
14,280
136
I use task manager all the time to disable startup items. I'm not sure what your problem is with it. This would seem to be another example of you just disliking change.

You could try reading the posts above yours, or of course you can make disparaging comments that add nothing of substance to the thread. You opted for the latter. At least two other people have pointed out that apps in the startup routine can be disabled in TM, which one could have used msconfig for, but IMHO it's not really msconfig's main purpose.

Here's a scenario I might consider using msconfig:

A computer is doing something doing that one does not regard as a typical problem. Let's say it's a performance problem on a computer that is pretty low spec: It takes a long time to cold boot and settle down. So, one might start by looking at Task Manager. Many performance problems exhibit themselves most prominently during the startup routine, so looking at Task Manager's "startup" tab could come in handy (where it tells you the startup impact of that program). But most of us know that sometimes there are programs listed there whose startup impact is "high" when that program doesn't actually cause any noticeable impact on startup performance, also it sometimes says "not measured", and also how would one determine "startup impact" exactly? The most obvious metric would be "does it use a lot of processor cycles", however a program could cause a significant startup impact by using a lot of memory but not a lot else, or it could make regular but not not-stop storage requests, or a tonne of other ways that a poorly-written program could cause a machine a lot of grief without necessarily being easy to spot using the 'processes' tab or some other performance monitoring program.

With Task Manager, one could disable all of the items in the startup tab, one by one. Let's say that none of those are causing the problem. With msconfig, a techie could guide a user within a few minutes to tell the computer to do a normal Windows boot, but to disable everything that isn't a core Windows service (so more than what safe mode offers, but not starting loads of third party services and apps). So the user hasn't been instructed to do anything potentially destructive, and the process is reversible within as many clicks (maybe 7 at most?). No notes need to be made of what was disabled. Or a user could use it to steadily re-enable third-party services and apps to try and narrow down the problem, without needing to note down whether a service was set to manual/auto (triggered)/etc to begin with, and also in services.msc there are a lot of services that might never start on a given user's computer.

I only use msconfig maybe only a few times of year in my line of work, because most home users' computers I encounter act up in ways that I find easier to spot or they just look very typical, e.g. a slow-starting computer with a tonne of icons near the clock, with definite crapware giveaways such as "inbox toolbar" or "weatherfox" , I'd start by going into CP > Programs & Features, and start uninstalling useless crap after checking it with the customer. I wanted to use it yesterday on a Win10 machine because DISM was bombing out in a way I've never encountered before, and research suggested to me that something currently running might be messing with it, but because the machine was in a bit of a bad state to begin (a failed WU update apparently caused the machine to not boot and not recover automatically, and only came back online after two system restore attempts) with I didn't want to devote a lot of troubleshooting time to a machine I thought ought to have the nuclear option. So I intended to use msconfig to tell Windows to boot as minimally as possible but more than safe mode (so no third party services, no startup apps, only core Windows services). Normally to do this I would start msconfig, tick 'selective startup' on the general tab, untick the startup items tick box, then go into the services tab, click 'hide all ms services', then click 'disable all', then exit and choose the reboot option. To undo it on the next boot, I would reinstate the options I changed before in msconfig and reboot it again.

IMHO msconfig isn't the sharpest tool in the box for troubleshooting, I think it was designed to give a non-novice some ability to troubleshoot startup issues, and if say the Startup tab of TM listed all third party software (service or app) with the option to disable it then it might be a valid replacement for msconfig in most cases. However I think that if TM had all of msconfig's functions it would make it less user-friendly; the improvements in TM that came in with Win8 IMHO were mostly aimed at making it more accessible for novices than older versions were (and I have to say, I especially like the new 'performance' tab, and overall the 'processes' tab is an improvement albeit with some disadvantages).
 
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razel

Platinum Member
May 14, 2002
2,337
93
101
All MS did was push that startup tab of the msconfig tab over to Task Manager and yes, you can manage services from the Task Manager A separate tab exists and even has a link to 'Open Services'. BTW this is on Win10. Perhaps the user you are on doesn't have correct rights? Regular users on our domain understandably do not have access to those tabs on Win10.
 

XavierMace

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2013
4,307
450
126
With Task Manager, one could disable all of the items in the startup tab, one by one. Let's say that none of those are causing the problem. With msconfig, a techie could guide a user within a few minutes to tell the computer to do a normal Windows boot, but to disable everything that isn't a core Windows service (so more than what safe mode offers, but not starting loads of third party services and apps). So the user hasn't been instructed to do anything potentially destructive, and the process is reversible within as many clicks (maybe 7 at most?). No notes need to be made of what was disabled. Or a user could use it to steadily re-enable third-party services and apps to try and narrow down the problem, without needing to note down whether a service was set to manual/auto (triggered)/etc to begin with, and also in services.msc there are a lot of services that might never start on a given user's computer.

Literally all that was done is the startup tab was moved to task manager where it's more easily accessible. There's nothing stopping you from using msconfig in those other scenarios you mentioned. No functionality has been lost. Again, not seeing what the problem is.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
19,970
14,280
136
Literally all that was done is the startup tab was moved to task manager where it's more easily accessible. There's nothing stopping you from using msconfig in those other scenarios you mentioned. No functionality has been lost. Again, not seeing what the problem is.

Ok, imagine that the system restore function had been removed, or neutered to the point that it was only as capable as the "last known good configuration" option. One still has many alternatives: The option I just mentioned, the ability to roll back Windows updates through CP > Programs & Features, the two options the reset feature provides, safe mode, rooting through winsxs for previous versions of system libraries, etc. None of these alternatives change the fact that system restore, as blunt and fallible instrument it is for system troubleshooting, brought under one easy to use feature, suitable for a novice, the ability to roll back the entire system to a date that it was working (when all things are equal). Imagine trying to roll a system back to its configuration on a previous date without the system restore feature. Difficult, tedious, but kinda theoretically possible, though made a heck of a lot easier if one has system image backups. Even with system image backups, system restore is still easier to use in this scenario.

Msconfig performed a similar function in terms of uniqueness: The ability to boot a Windows system in normal mode yet without all the extra software (NB: services and startup items/apps) that usually automatically starts. Yes, one could rifle through services.msc, one service at a time, making notes as to which services one is changing and their individual original start settings, then one could go through TM's startup tab and disabling those one at a time. Me using msconfig to achieve this would take about 30 seconds and a similar length of time to reverse the process. Doing it through services.msc and TM's startup tab would take at least 5-10 minutes for someone who knows what services are required for a normal Windows boot and what aren't, and for someone who doesn't know this, it would be an utter waste of time to even attempt.

Removing the 'startup' tab from msconfig means that it cannot do the function I've described itself. It can do half the function. It would be like removing the ability of system restore to restore either system libraries or the registry itself. It doesn't make it entirely useless, just mostly useless. Yes, one can work around its new limitations, but the existence of those limitations makes it less likely to be used at the expense of losing what was a unique feature.

If you still don't understand what I mean, crank up a Win7 system (preferably one that could do with cleaning up) and play with this utility because frankly I'm not sure I can come up with any more ways of explaining what one very simple program does.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,883
641
126
I'm trying to figure out exactly what all the whining is supposed to accomplish. Will this bring back msconfig? I know I can't interact with my computers on that level.
 

Ketchup

Elite Member
Sep 1, 2002
14,558
248
106
I am afraid I don't see the problem either. Want to stop all non-Windows services in Windows 10? Msconfig/Services/Hide All Microsoft Services/Disable All.
 

sweenish

Diamond Member
May 21, 2013
3,656
60
91
OP literally goes "let me build a strawman" and then wonders why their view isn't being taken seriously.