MS3 vs WRX: MS3 Wins!

[xSkyDrAx]

28K is pushing it, what sort of options did you get? When I looked I was able to get a base model 2012 WRX for roughly 26k. They have stopped taking orders at the subaru dealerships here though. Call subaru of america and tell them your complaint.

In Cali if you're getting a base WRX at MSRP $25,500 (which is what I wanted) plus TTL and everything you're looking at around 28k+ because tax is 8.75% and then you throw in some dealer fees and what not.

If they agree to 26 - 26.5k out the door I will gladly wait for it. If not an MS3 for 24.7k OTD is fine by me plus I won't have to wait.

Also since it was Subaru of America that sent me the voucher they were the ones that excluded the BRZ, WRX, STi. They told me because when certain vehicles are of limited supply they can be excluded. :'( Wish they told me that 6 months ago.

But we'll see how it goes. Come Sunday I'm either walking with a WRX or a MS3 lol

 

[ballmode]

Unless you need the 4 doors or the wagon, I would pass on the current WRX.

 

[xSkyDrAx]

Unless you need the 4 doors or the wagon, I would pass on the current WRX.

Why would you say that? I think the current generation looks amazing and it has plenty of power.

 

[power_hour]

WRX are sweet but paying full MSRP? Are you kidding me? Not worth it. They depreciate pretty quick and dealers don't want them on trades. Great car but not worth the bullshit at the moment.

OP needs to look at the VW GTi models... they even have an AWD model that is pretty sweet.

To the guy suggesting a Mustang or Camaro V6: how's the beige corolla treating you? ;-)

 

[Aharami]

WRX are sweet but paying full MSRP? Are you kidding me? Not worth it. They depreciate pretty quick and dealers don't want them on trades. Great car but not worth the bullshit at the moment.

OP needs to look at the VW GTi models... they even have an AWD model that is pretty sweet.

To the guy suggesting a Mustang or Camaro V6: how's the beige corolla treating you? ;-)

the AWD GTI you're talking about is the Golf R. Sweet car, but it's $36K. Talk about not worth it

 

[Aharami]

Ah, I see they are between an outgoing model year and the redesigned 2013 model.

Wait 6 months and you'll have your pick of the litter on any Subaru lot.

yea but I like the current gen WRX styling A LOT more than the current Impreza styling. I hope the next WRX looks a lot better than the current Impreza, and I really really hope they lose that compartmentalized side windows (dont know how else to describe it) for the WRX. That just makes the car look so cheap!

 

[Jumpem]

WRX are sweet but paying full MSRP? Are you kidding me? Not worth it. They depreciate pretty quick and dealers don't want them on trades. Great car but not worth the bullshit at the moment.

OP needs to look at the VW GTi models... they even have an AWD model that is pretty sweet.

To the guy suggesting a Mustang or Camaro V6: how's the beige corolla treating you? ;-)

The VW offerings aren't comparable. The GTI is two wheel drive and a good bit slower than the WRX. The Golf R won't even keep up with a base WRX. Let alone, a similarly priced STi. VW products do get attractive though when you get up to the TT-RS.

As for resale value, Subaru is always near the top of the list.

 

[yottabit]

I was going through this same choice process as you.

The torque steering and traction control on the MS3 is a serious downside compared to the WRX- it's boost limited in the first (2) gears I think to prevent tons of wheelspin which can be frustrating

It's got a harsher ride than a WRX, but also supposedly handles better if you are ever looking to actually bring it to a race track

I ended up buying a regular Mazda3 S hatch because the performance was good enough for me

EDIT: Also be wary the WRX is rumored for a significant 2013 refresh, switching to a new 2.0 L turbo with higher power and more fuel economy. Also, the MS3 is very long in the tooth IMO with almost no engine upgrades through it's lifespan... I wouldn't be surprised if it gets a significant revamp soon (or if they drop the product completely )

 

[T2urtle]

The price diff is like $2k, so really when it comes down to it won't matter.

U like the looks of the wrx more so just get it. End of story.

I've always loved the wrx but insurance rates just didn't work for me. So I opted to look at other subies and entry level luxury cars. They didn't look the same but offered stuff in the ball park in the used market. A3 with 2.0t, g35/g37
Gti and ms3 are neck and neck.

 

[ballmode]

Why would you say that? I think the current generation looks amazing and it has plenty of power.

First off the 08-09 WRX's have a crappy turbo on them.

In 2008, Subaru decided ONCE AGAIN to cheap out on the USDM version of the WRX although they catered the whole body design to accommodate us.

Did you know that it took till 2006+ for the subaru to get 4 piston front brakes?

But Australia and Japan have been getting them since 2002-2003....

The STI gets the trick diffs front and back, but the 2002-2007 USDM got only LSD in the rear diff. 2008+ ELECTRONIC

2006 is the BEST year to get a USDM WRX, why?

4 pot pistons up front, vented rotors in the rear (although LGT brakes need to be swapped), and aluminum suspension bits up front later switched to STEEL in 2007+ for cost savings.

 

[Wuzup101]

Drive both and see which one you like. The price difference isn't worth getting a car that you truly do not really like. It's better to wait and save a bit more and get what you want rather than living with something for the next few years that makes you think about what you could have had.

FWIW, as an Evo X driver, I say go with the WRX (given the 2 options). AWD really is fun! That being said, there are plenty of great fun cars out there in your price range. Also remember - you don't have to buy new. You can get a late model (IE: 2004ish) E46 M3 in the $16,000 range (many examples are in fantastic condition). If you want a bit more MPG but still want something snappy and fun... a 330i with the ZHP package in the same age bracket will be about $3-4k cheaper than the M3.

 

[PhoKingGuy]

The VW offerings aren't comparable. The GTI is two wheel drive and a good bit slower than the WRX. The Golf R won't even keep up with a base WRX. Let alone, a similarly priced STi. VW products do get attractive though when you get up to the TT-RS.

As for resale value, Subaru is always near the top of the list.

Hey look the resident Subaru ass kisser shows up as usual.

Some people want a refined DD with spunk, not a tin can with a shitty interior

 

[Jumpem]

Hey look the resident Subaru ass kisser shows up as usual.

Some people want a refined DD with spunk, not a tin can with a shitty interior

Then don't pretend the VW models are contenders if performance is being discussed.

 

[PhoKingGuy]

Then don't pretend the VW models are contenders if performance is being discussed.

My stage 1 chipped GTI begged to differ.

Also before you throw the whole AWD circlejerk in, I live in socal, it doesn't matter.

I wasn't about to almost double my insurance just to have a WRX and get crap mpg as well.

 

[xSkyDrAx]

The price diff is like $2k, so really when it comes down to it won't matter.

U like the looks of the wrx more so just get it. End of story.

I've always loved the wrx but insurance rates just didn't work for me. So I opted to look at other subies and entry level luxury cars. They didn't look the same but offered stuff in the ball park in the used market. A3 with 2.0t, g35/g37
Gti and ms3 are neck and neck.

Like I said my main concerns was Subaru jacking up the price on me since the WRX no longer qualifies for VIP pricing. A 2k difference that's nothing for me but when you're talking 4-5k I just don't think a base WRX is worth 28K+ out the door.

First off the 08-09 WRX's have a crappy turbo on them.

In 2008, Subaru decided ONCE AGAIN to cheap out on the USDM version of the WRX although they catered the whole body design to accommodate us.

Did you know that it took till 2006+ for the subaru to get 4 piston front brakes?

But Australia and Japan have been getting them since 2002-2003....

The STI gets the trick diffs front and back, but the 2002-2007 USDM got only LSD in the rear diff. 2008+ ELECTRONIC

2006 is the BEST year to get a USDM WRX, why?

4 pot pistons up front, vented rotors in the rear (although LGT brakes need to be swapped), and aluminum suspension bits up front later switched to STEEL in 2007+ for cost savings.

I don't know if I mentioned this but I should have said I wanted the 2012 WRX. I know the 08 got screwed over and there were a little issues with the 09s. '11 and '12 I thought they really got it spot on.

Also my other concern is that I do not want a first year revamp. I heard they're going to put the 2.0l engine in the next WRX with another turbo but I don't really want to deal with the first year bugs that they work out in 2-3 years and I'm definitely planning to wait that long.

 

[xSkyDrAx]

I was going through this same choice process as you.

The torque steering and traction control on the MS3 is a serious downside compared to the WRX- it's boost limited in the first (2) gears I think to prevent tons of wheelspin which can be frustrating

It's got a harsher ride than a WRX, but also supposedly handles better if you are ever looking to actually bring it to a race track

I ended up buying a regular Mazda3 S hatch because the performance was good enough for me

EDIT: Also be wary the WRX is rumored for a significant 2013 refresh, switching to a new 2.0 L turbo with higher power and more fuel economy. Also, the MS3 is very long in the tooth IMO with almost no engine upgrades through it's lifespan... I wouldn't be surprised if it gets a significant revamp soon (or if they drop the product completely )

Yea I'm already familiar with the torque steer issue and the limited boosting in the first few gears but I can understand that when you got 280 ft/lbs of torque going to the front wheels at 3000 RPM it's a bit insane but it's something I'm willing to deal with.

Also I heard they pretty much wrung out as much power as safely possible from that engine which is why they never gave it any bumps.

Also another plus for me is that it's much better equipped than the WRX for less money and it has a 6spd over the 5spd.

Come tomorrow I'll know which one I go with. Well basically it's up to Subaru if they're willing to play nice. If not I'll have some pictures to post!

 

[Jumpem]

My stage 1 chipped GTI begged to differ.

Also before you throw the whole AWD circlejerk in, I live in socal, it doesn't matter.

I wasn't about to almost double my insurance just to have a WRX and get crap mpg as well.

It does matter if performance is a concern. It is a big advantage in 0-60 acceleration.

As for insurance, which vehicle it is has never made much of a difference for me. In recent years, it has always been about $475-500 for six months regardless if it was my STi, Fit, 4WD Frontier, Miata, Forester XT, or Outback.

 

[PhoKingGuy]

It does matter if performance is a concern. It is a big advantage in 0-60 acceleration.

As for insurance, which vehicle it is has never made much of a difference for me. In recent years, it has always been about $475-500 for six months regardless if it was my STi, Fit, 4WD Frontier, Miata, Forester XT, or Outback.

My insurance on my 335i is cheaper than it would be on a vanilla WRX and almost half that of an STi. Not worth it, it would make the car payment ridiculous.

 

[Pens1566]

Depending on your record/location/demographics, STI insurance isn't that bad. Mine is $72 a month. $4 more than my V6 Accord is.

 

[Throckmorton]

FWD sucking isn't a matter of the amount of power and torque steer. I had a Mazda 3 rental and even with 160hp or whatever I could easily feel that it was a FWD car, from the understeer.

 

[xSkyDrAx]

FWD sucking isn't a matter of the amount of power and torque steer. I had a Mazda 3 rental and even with 160hp or whatever I could easily feel that it was a FWD car, from the understeer.

We're all familiar with the understeer in FWD cars but in the 25kish price range there are no hot hatches with RWD. WRX comes closest with AWD.

For a cheap, fun, dd I can live with FWD i think hahaha

 

[Throckmorton]

We're all familiar with the understeer in FWD cars but in the 25kish price range there are no hot hatches with RWD. WRX comes closest with AWD.

For a cheap, fun, dd I can live with FWD i think hahaha

But the WRX also doesn't have a goofy grin

 

[Doppel]

Have to wait 8-10 weeks

This is an irrelevantly short wait. If you in part choose the Mazda because you need not wait 3 months from now you could regret it.

I think AWD is overrated.

 

[xSkyDrAx]

Well like I said I would not hesitate for the WRX if they are willing to agree to a fair price. If they jack it up would you pay 28K+ out the door for a base WRX???

Faced with that choice I can live with a small grin.

 

[Zap]

Also another plus for me is that it's much better equipped than the WRX for less money and it has a 6spd over the 5spd.

I don't recall exactly since it was back in 2007 when I last test drove a Mazdaspeed 3 (cross shopped with my Mazdaspeed 6) but if it is the same transmission as the 6, it is one sweet shifting manual and much better than the WRX 5 speed. The WRX did seem to "break in" or we got used to it :hmm: and now seems okay, but initially we didn't like it much.

I had a Mazda 3 rental and even with 160hp or whatever I could easily feel that it was a FWD car, from the understeer.

We had a Mazda 3s, and it was fine except for the open differential always letting one tire spin.

But the WRX also doesn't have a goofy grin

That is very true.