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MS: No Spring Update!

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Am I the only one who doesn't care if there is a spring update or not? Hell, Microsoft probably saw the bogus "leaked" list, and realized that they didn't have anything even close to what it promised after everybody on the internet went gaga over it, so they scratched it.
 
Ugh, delisting is a bad precedent. At least with physical copies, you can usually still track down a copy down if you try hard enough.
 
Why are you people getting your panties in a wad over the delisting of sucky games that very few people even want? 😕
 
Originally posted by: mugs
Why are you people getting your panties in a wad over the delisting of sucky games that very few people even want? 😕

WTF. I was going to post something very similar:

Why are some of you guys getting your panties in a wad for games that you've never bought?
 
Originally posted by: biggestmuff
Originally posted by: mugs
Why are you people getting your panties in a wad over the delisting of sucky games that very few people even want? 😕

WTF. I was going to post something very similar:

Why are some of you guys getting your panties in a wad for games that you've never bought?

I think it's more of the issue of what happens if you purchased an Arcade game that will be delisted. Some people delete the game to free up space, but obviously want the option to download it again in the future if they so please. This also hurts people who might buy another hard drive and want to download all their Arcade titles to it. This is the big problem with digital distribution of media right now, and it's something that needs to be figured out.
 
Originally posted by: blurredvision
Originally posted by: biggestmuff
Originally posted by: mugs
Why are you people getting your panties in a wad over the delisting of sucky games that very few people even want? 😕

WTF. I was going to post something very similar:

Why are some of you guys getting your panties in a wad for games that you've never bought?

I think it's more of the issue of what happens if you purchased an Arcade game that will be delisted. Some people delete the game to free up space, but obviously want the option to download it again in the future if they so please. This also hurts people who might buy another hard drive and want to download all their Arcade titles to it. This is the big problem with digital distribution of media right now, and it's something that needs to be figured out.

Correct. I went through about a year long phase where I'd buy just about every XBLA title that came out... even if I only sort of liked it. Why? Because I was enamored with the XBLA concept and loved what they were doing. Now, I wouldnt doubt that many of those titles I purchased are going to be delisted because in all honesty, they weren't great games and I doubt many people bought them.
 
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Delisting games? One reason I hate downloadable content. You never know when it's going to be taken away from you. Long live optical media!
:thumbsup:

They definitely need to straighten out the DRM issues too.I bought an expansion pack for CrackDown, it was accessible by any account on the console. Since having that console repalced, it seems to treat it like my account is on another console, and only gives me access now. I've tried everything. including formatting the HDD and re-downloading everything. Perhaps they have changed the policy on the downloaded content completely, and I just missed that.

Worse yet, any other account gets a message saying that content is invalid or corrupt, want to continue playing with it disabled? :frown:

 
Originally posted by: Modeps


Correct. I went through about a year long phase where I'd buy just about every XBLA title that came out... even if I only sort of liked it. Why? Because I was enamored with the XBLA concept and loved what they were doing. Now, I wouldnt doubt that many of those titles I purchased are going to be delisted because in all honesty, they weren't great games and I doubt many people bought them.
For some of those titles, even backing them up to say, a used 20gb HDD boguth for $40-$50 won't solve the problem either, will it?

 
Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Originally posted by: Modeps


Correct. I went through about a year long phase where I'd buy just about every XBLA title that came out... even if I only sort of liked it. Why? Because I was enamored with the XBLA concept and loved what they were doing. Now, I wouldnt doubt that many of those titles I purchased are going to be delisted because in all honesty, they weren't great games and I doubt many people bought them.
For some of those titles, even backing them up to say, a used 20gb HDD boguth for $40-$50 won't solve the problem either, will it?

I'm sure I could do that, but I'd rather not have to swap hard drives, you know? The expectation due to the low 20gb hard drive, was that we could safely delete things and redownload them at a later date. Now, that is being thrown out. If MS is willing to spot me a 120gb drive, I'd be more than willing to just re-download them and save them.
 
I don't know. My instinct is to say that MS will allow individuals who purchased delisted games to re-download them through their download history screen. The game just won't be available to purchase. That just seems like the common sense approach.
 
Originally posted by: Queasy
I don't know. My instinct is to say that MS will allow individuals who purchased delisted games to re-download them through their download history screen. The game just won't be available to purchase. That just seems like the common sense approach.

Who said anything about common sense?
 
Originally posted by: Modeps
Originally posted by: blurredvision
Originally posted by: biggestmuff
Originally posted by: mugs
Why are you people getting your panties in a wad over the delisting of sucky games that very few people even want? 😕

WTF. I was going to post something very similar:

Why are some of you guys getting your panties in a wad for games that you've never bought?

I think it's more of the issue of what happens if you purchased an Arcade game that will be delisted. Some people delete the game to free up space, but obviously want the option to download it again in the future if they so please. This also hurts people who might buy another hard drive and want to download all their Arcade titles to it. This is the big problem with digital distribution of media right now, and it's something that needs to be figured out.

Correct. I went through about a year long phase where I'd buy just about every XBLA title that came out... even if I only sort of liked it. Why? Because I was enamored with the XBLA concept and loved what they were doing. Now, I wouldnt doubt that many of those titles I purchased are going to be delisted because in all honesty, they weren't great games and I doubt many people bought them.

Delisting it doesn't necessarily mean the people who bought it previously won't be able to download it again (although after MS shut down their music service, I wouldn't put it past them). New customers won't be able to download it anymore, but I imagine previous customers will probably be able to redownload it if necessary.
 
Originally posted by: mugs
Delisting it doesn't necessarily mean the people who bought it previously won't be able to download it again (although after MS shut down their music service, I wouldn't put it past them). New customers won't be able to download it anymore, but I imagine previous customers will probably be able to redownload it if necessary.

I guess my question would then be, why bother delisting them at all if they're still located on the servers? If they want to clean up the marketplace, they should rework navigation properly instead of just removing items.
 
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Delisting games? One reason I hate downloadable content. You never know when it's going to be taken away from you. Long live optical media!

Downloadable content is fine as long as the distributer allows you to back it up to a more permanent storage medium.
 
Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Delisting games? One reason I hate downloadable content. You never know when it's going to be taken away from you. Long live optical media!

Downloadable content is fine as long as the distributer allows you to back it up to a more permanent storage medium.

Do you consider Microsoft's pricey memory cards and hard drives as a good solution?
 
Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Delisting games? One reason I hate downloadable content. You never know when it's going to be taken away from you. Long live optical media!

Downloadable content is fine as long as the distributer allows you to back it up to a more permanent storage medium.

I agree 100%, but lots of publishers don't allow that, and DRM is just a tool for screwing their legitimate customers while pirates laugh at their efforts.
 
Originally posted by: mugs
Why are you people getting your panties in a wad over the delisting of sucky games that very few people even want? 😕

Look through the list Queasy posted though. Some of those games are arcade classics. Maybe they haven't aged all that well, but it seems rather foolish to remove arcade classics from your ARCADE. What's wrong with simply making an "Archive" section. You could put all the under performing games in there and that would be the only place they show up. This way they don't "clutter" up the lists and bury newer games, but people interested can still find them. Seems like the utterly obvious solution. Delisting just has "stupid" stamped all over it.
 
Majornelson posted this reply on his blog comments:

"I'll discuss the delisted arcade games issues on my show this week...but let's just say as I understand it, you don't have anything to be worried about. Think download history. Titles are not being pulled off the service, just delisted. As with anything, you can always redownload content via your account's download history. Marketplace blade->Account Management->Download History, select item, Download Again."

 
Originally posted by: chrisg22
Majornelson posted this reply on his blog comments:

"I'll discuss the delisted arcade games issues on my show this week...but let's just say as I understand it, you don't have anything to be worried about. Think download history. Titles are not being pulled off the service, just delisted. As with anything, you can always redownload content via your account's download history. Marketplace blade->Account Management->Download History, select item, Download Again."

Well, thats good to hear, but that still brings up the question, if they're taking up space on the servers anyway, why bother delisting them?
 
Originally posted by: Modeps
Originally posted by: mugs
Delisting it doesn't necessarily mean the people who bought it previously won't be able to download it again (although after MS shut down their music service, I wouldn't put it past them). New customers won't be able to download it anymore, but I imagine previous customers will probably be able to redownload it if necessary.

I guess my question would then be, why bother delisting them at all if they're still located on the servers? If they want to clean up the marketplace, they should rework navigation properly instead of just removing items.

Cleaning up would be one reason. No matter how they organize the marketplace, these crappy games are still going to show up somewhere amongst the good games. Bandwidth costs could be another reason. If only 6% buy it, that means there are 16 demo downloads for each conversion, or about 1 GB of data transfer. On the other hand, that's about the size of one full game demo, but for all we know the publishers might have to pay to put their demos up.

Originally posted by: Thraxen
Originally posted by: mugs
Why are you people getting your panties in a wad over the delisting of sucky games that very few people even want? 😕

Look through the list Queasy posted though. Some of those games are arcade classics. Maybe they haven't aged all that well, but it seems rather foolish to remove arcade classics from your ARCADE. What's wrong with simply making an "Archive" section. You could put all the under performing games in there and that would be the only place they show up. This way they don't "clutter" up the lists and bury newer games, but people interested can still find them. Seems like the utterly obvious solution. Delisting just has "stupid" stamped all over it.

The list that Queasy posted is not the list that will be delisted, it's the list of games below 65 on Metacritic. We don't know what their conversion rates are. And having a separate section for the games that suck sounds like a great idea. :laugh:
 
Originally posted by: Modeps
Originally posted by: chrisg22
Majornelson posted this reply on his blog comments:

"I'll discuss the delisted arcade games issues on my show this week...but let's just say as I understand it, you don't have anything to be worried about. Think download history. Titles are not being pulled off the service, just delisted. As with anything, you can always redownload content via your account's download history. Marketplace blade->Account Management->Download History, select item, Download Again."

Well, thats good to hear, but that still brings up the question, if they're taking up space on the servers anyway, why bother delisting them?

It is really not an issue with bandwidth or servers or anything of the sort. It's an issue of preserving the quality of the service. Publishers/developers for these arcade games are getting disgruntled in that the selection is growing too large while the quality is not.

When a consumer is bombarded with mediocre content on a regular basis, they tend to grow numb to the new content and begin overlooking quality content.

Especially for new customers - when they go to pick a game or two to download they will try out a few demos of games that may be appealing to them. If those are bad games, the likelihood of them continuing to try out new games decreases. They're just looking to trim the fat for poorly reviewed titles with few downloads.

I really don't see why this is has become such a big topic of discussion. I guess news in the video game industry is running thin as of late.
 
I'm surprised this hasn't been posted, but on the most recent Major Nelson podcast, they cleared up a lot of the the issues with the confusion of "delisting" arcade titles.

- Delisting a title simply means it will be not be listed in the Arcade as a purchasable title. Sort of liking taking a poor selling game from the shelf of your store and sticking it in the back.
- All delisted games can still be purchased, the only catch is that someone who has already purchased a game has to recommend the title to you (an option I'm assuming will be added or is already there and I just haven't seen it). Someone will make the recommendation, and you can choose to purchase the delisted title from that message. Continuing with my previous analogy, the title is still in the back, you just have to know it's there to ask for it.
- If you have purchased a title already, you may always redownload the title in the future by visiting your Download History (buried in the menus somewhere).
- Titles will be delisted, but never deleted.

I have no idea what they are going to do about demos, though. Maybe if someone recommends a title, you'll have the option to try the demo first, who knows.
 
Here is some more info

The Internet cried foul when Microsoft said underperforming Xbox Live Arcade games would be removed from the service.

The blame falls on Microsoft, according to Aaron Greenberg, product management director for Xbox 360 and Xbox Live.

?That?s probably our fault for not explaining that better,? he said in a phone interview with MTV Multiplayer last week. ?The reality is we?re not removing any games from the service, if you will. They?ll always be there for purchase. Think about a book on Amazon. It?s not always going to be featured on the front page of the store.?

While not entirely removed, they aren?t readily accessible for purchase by users. They?re removed from the store front, but if you delete it, you can download it again. If a a friend users the recommendation feature, you can actually buy it. Still, Greenberg sympathizes with people?s frustrations over removed content in the age of digital distribution that promised unlimited shelf space.

?We?re sort of cleaning our shelves as a retailer,? he explained. ?Even though we are in this digital age, the pros of cleaning the shelves outweighed the cons of expanding the shelf. ?

I suggested that the negative reaction came from a packrat mentality. Even though I own an absurd number of games and movies that I?ll never play or watch again, I want them. If my girlfriend threw them out, I?d be upset. Removing games from XBL Arcade, even if most gamers will never give them a passing glance, upsets them on principle.

?I don?t think it?s really going to impact that average gamer that much,? he said. ?It is more of a psychological thing. It?s like you?re taking something away from [the gamer].?

The problems facing XBL Arcade in 2008 are far different than the problems XBL Arcade faced two years ago. Gamers famously groaned about the service going weeks without a new release. It was a very different time from the present, when XBL Wednesdays are now a regular occurrence sometimes adding two new games to the service in one day.

These days, Microsoft faces the challenge of having too much content on XBLA. But Greenberg believes streamlining the available content means a better experience for first-time Xbox 360 users.

?What will benefit is when new owners come into the market,? he said. ?They?re going to turn on the Xbox and go into Arcade and [see] a much higher quality of selection. You want consumers to get that experience for the first time [and see that] every Arcade game is a high-quality game, so their first purchase is most likely going to be a great game.?

Greenberg hopes the policies will encourage companies to spend more time on their XBL Arcade titles and attempt more ambitious projects. ?What you?re going to see [is that] Arcade, in general, is going to focus on quality over quantity,? he said. ?While you will see [some] titles get delisted, hopefully you won?t see many games getting delisted. [You'll see a] higher quality of games that won?t fall into that criteria.?

Time will ultimately tell. Microsoft has not yet announced the first slate of games to be removed from the service. There will be as much as several months of notice. The games will not be removed without a heads-up, through Greenberg joked it might have helped them avoid some of the backlash targeted at Microsoft.

?I think if we would have just taken some of these very low performing games randomly off the service, nobody would have said much about it,? he laughed. ?But now we?ve created this ?Xbox Live Arcade Death Watch,? about who will make the cut. It?s almost like a reality show about who?s going to get voted off the island.?

That?s the question, then: who?s getting voted off first?
 
I agree that this is most likely an organizational issue at the heart of things, but I fear that this will have nothing but a negative effect in the long run. I can appreciate MS attempt at trying to ?keep the house clean? here, but I fear that even in a few years time this will make rare, hard-to-find games even harder to find. The idea of having a huge library of digital games available on XBL is very appealing. We?re not talking about physical shelf space here, we're talking about soft copies of software! I say, impliment a great search feature to help cut down on confusion for the end users and get more organized--not take away gaming options.
 
Originally posted by: warcrow
I agree that this is most likely an organizational issue at the heart of things, but I fear that this will have nothing but a negative effect in the long run. I can appreciate MS attempt at trying to ?keep the house clean? here, but I fear that even in a few years time this will make rare, hard-to-find games even harder to find. The idea of having a huge library of digital games available on XBL is very appealing. We?re not talking about physical shelf space here, we're talking about soft copies of software! I say, impliment a great search feature to help cut down on confusion for the end users and get more organized--not take away gaming options.

I don't know, I look at that list of games with metacritic scores of less than 65 and see many that shouldn't have been made (or should have been made properly). There are a few classics in there like Pac-Man and Contra but I'm betting that games like those have a high enough conversion ratio to keep it listed on the service. Then there are the Tron and Discs of Tron remakes that are so awful control wise that they should never have been released ion the first place.

I do agree though that MS needs to find a better way to organize the XBLA games as the number of XBLA games continues to grow. It would be nice if there were a way for users to rate games, sort by popularity, most downloaded, most purchased, etc.
 
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