motorcyclists: is 250 cc too small

[ActuaryTm]

Originally posted by: Rallispec
has anyone here tought themselves to ride?

Learned to ride at age 7. Took the RiderCourse at age 15, as my father (veteran rider of 50 years) insisted on it.

There is a great deal the safety course teaches that extends far beyond the basic operations of the how-to's of riding. In short, most of the second day of the course (and part of the first, as well) are imparting the defensive driving skills needed to survive on the road. As Perknose mentions, most cars do not consider riders to be the equivalent of a car, and as such either do not see or do not account for them accordingly. The course teaches how to deal with car operators who drive this way in various ways, and chances are the skills learned will at the very least prevent injury (and/or property damage - namely, one's ride) at some point down the line. Was fortunate to have a truly wonderful instructor at the time in Ed Culberson, who wrote Obsessions Die Hard (unfortunately, Ed has since passed away).

Even veteran riders can benefit from the approach and methods the course teaches.

 

[Argo]

Btw, you know you don't need to go to DMV to get your bike license? You can take the basic rider course and if you pass you get to skip a very tough DMV road test.

 

[Cattlegod]

Originally posted by: Rallispec
Thanks for the input everyone!


i talked to the poeple at the motorcycle safety foundation, and it looks like they're booked up for the summer as far classes go. (i'm going to keep on them though, someone mayi drop out)

has anyone here tought themselves to ride?

My dad and one of my coworkers have motorcycle licenses -- so hopefully I can at least get them to show me the ropes until I can get into a class and really learn what to do.

I tought myself to ride as well. Took the written test 1 year before I planned on buying my bike. Then I took the road test a couple weeks later on a 80cc automatic moped.

I took my '03 cbr600rr and drove it out of the dealership on a LARGE intersection that it was on. Haha, stalled it out 3 times before I made it out of the parking lot. Then I stalled it out at the light, I was really scared when I rode it home. I finally got comfortable with the bike after about 1000 miles. After about 3000 you get to know the bike, and at about 5000 miles you can consider yourself an ok rider.

The reason I say don't get an sv650 or a gs500 or any other beginner bike is you will become bored with it after about 3 months or so. And, if you buy it new, you will be very angry because if you go to sell it, you will lose thousands.

The main reason IMHO not to get a 1000cc for your first bike is because of the wheelie factor. With a 600cc, you have to try to pull the front wheel up. On a 1000cc it just comes up and if you are inexperienced, that could cause problems.

EDIT:: Oh! and make SURE you buy a copy of "Twist of the Wrist II" by Keith Code. By far the best sport bike riding book. This teaches you a lot of technique you may not realize without being told.

 

[CVSiN]

if your bored by an SV650 you have issues...
we race 3 of these in CMRA/CCS series..
SV 650 is a FUN bike...
just becasue it doesnt do 180 mph doesnt make it any less exciting..
this bike with a few mods like a new carb a new exhaust and an ohlins shock become a monster capable of - 2 minute laps at texas world..
I dont undertand this mentality that just becasue its not a inline4 600 that peeps berate this bike..
yes the 500 and the 250 this is prolly true of.. as they are very slow but even then.. some riders pick up riding fast.. where others do not and it takes them more than 5000 miles to be able to react with instict.. which is what is needed to survive.
i have over 400k street miles and prolly 20k on the racetrack over the last 17 years..
new riders with 0 experience on a world class 600 = dead squid within 1 year ususally..
and it doesnt happen right away.. beacsue at first they are scared to death of them.. it usually happens after the user begins to get cocky and then the bike shows them who is boss.
this year alone.. i have been to 7 funerals for newer riders all younger age riders trying to ride above thier abilities... going to fast.. tryign to do wheelies or stoppies... basically acting like retards...

I bet within a few years the US will institute drivign laws for motorcycles like Europe has..
they have CC restrictions on licenses based on time you held the license..
new riders are restricted to 500CC and below for several years...
then are allowed into 600-750.. and etc.. this cuts down on alot of dead newbs.. and alot of insurance problems..

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Cattlegod
get a 600cc or you will be upset after about 3 months.

< -- 1st bike was a cbr600rr, about to turn 10k miles on it, never been down

For a person with no experience, i would highly disagree with that statement. The highest I'd go is 500 (gs500e, ninja 500 etc). If you really want a sporty bike with a big displacement, go get the SV650.

There's no need for you to get a big bike though, weighing 140lbs the 250 would do just fine imo.


<- 6ft, 170lbs riding a cbr f3

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: AgaBooga
Just curious, how much money would I be looking at for a decent learning bike?

How much could insurance be for a 400-500cc bike for a 16 year old?

dont do it, you will not live to be 18. Get yourself a 50/125cc dirt bike and don't take it on the road till you learn how to *drive*. If i had my CBR when i was 16, i'd be dead right now.
16 year olds DO NOT know how to drive, much less to ride.

Im paying 370/year for plpd and comprehensive ($500 deductible) for a 97 cbr f3. 20 years old, clean record/no pts

 

[Rallispec]

i just looked at a suzuki SV650 at a bike dealership, but it was a 2004 and a little more than i was hoping to spend. ($5k)

They also had 2001 Kawasaki EX 500 for about 3k, which is a little closer to what i was hoping to pay.

they also had a smaller ducati which I sat on and liked a lot, but it was a bit expensive (6k)


so far i really like the ninja 500.

 

[MonkeyK]

Take the class first. 250cc's are great for learning since they are so light.

After that you need to consider what kind of riding you will be doing. If you want to ride on the highway, you will want =>600cc, if it is just for tooling around, 250cc will be fine.

 

[Triumph]

Originally posted by: Cattlegod
The reason I say don't get an sv650 or a gs500 or any other beginner bike is you will become bored with it after about 3 months or so. And, if you buy it new, you will be very angry because if you go to sell it, you will lose thousands.

If you are bored with it, you're basically saying that you've accomplished everything you can with this bike. And that's an ignorant attitude which will get you in trouble. You cannot learn everything there is to know in 3 months. Learn to ride a 250 or 500 WELL, and you'll be an even better 600+ rider than you would be if you started out on one.

Lose thousands? Go look at used prices for a 250R. MSRP new is 2999. You can find them used for 2500, even examples that are a few years old. If anything, the 600 bikes take the most depreciation hit. But losing "thousands" on a 250 or 500? Yeah, the bike doesn't even cost many thousands to begin with.

Everyone keeps calling the 250 or 500 "slow", yet I posted numbers earlier that show its every bit as fast as a WRX or an RX8. So how exactly is the bike slow again?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Triumph

Originally posted by: Cattlegod
The reason I say don't get an sv650 or a gs500 or any other beginner bike is you will become bored with it after about 3 months or so. And, if you buy it new, you will be very angry because if you go to sell it, you will lose thousands.

If you are bored with it, you're basically saying that you've accomplished everything you can with this bike. And that's an ignorant attitude which will get you in trouble. You cannot learn everything there is to know in 3 months. Learn to ride a 250 or 500 WELL, and you'll be an even better 600+ rider than you would be if you started out on one.

Lose thousands? Go look at used prices for a 250R. MSRP new is 2999. You can find them used for 2500, even examples that are a few years old. If anything, the 600 bikes take the most depreciation hit. But losing "thousands" on a 250 or 500? Yeah, the bike doesn't even cost many thousands to begin with.

Everyone keeps calling the 250 or 500 "slow", yet I posted numbers earlier that show its every bit as fast as a WRX or an RX8. So how exactly is the bike slow again?

Good points. As you know, I ride a Hayabusa, and I could still have a blast on a SV 650. There is a lot of racing done with these machines, and there aren't many who can ride it to it's limits. Yeah, it's not as fast as my bike, but so what? I rarely go faster than the SV will go. I enjoy my bike but I would not be ashamed to get the SV or if a new rider the 500 Both are good machines.

 

[boyRacer]

Originally posted by: Triumph

Originally posted by: Cattlegod
The reason I say don't get an sv650 or a gs500 or any other beginner bike is you will become bored with it after about 3 months or so. And, if you buy it new, you will be very angry because if you go to sell it, you will lose thousands.

If you are bored with it, you're basically saying that you've accomplished everything you can with this bike. And that's an ignorant attitude which will get you in trouble. You cannot learn everything there is to know in 3 months. Learn to ride a 250 or 500 WELL, and you'll be an even better 600+ rider than you would be if you started out on one.

Lose thousands? Go look at used prices for a 250R. MSRP new is 2999. You can find them used for 2500, even examples that are a few years old. If anything, the 600 bikes take the most depreciation hit. But losing "thousands" on a 250 or 500? Yeah, the bike doesn't even cost many thousands to begin with.

Everyone keeps calling the 250 or 500 "slow", yet I posted numbers earlier that show its every bit as fast as a WRX or an RX8. So how exactly is the bike slow again?

Cmon, in this country, accomplishing everything means going very fast on freeways... you know going straight and squaring off your tires.

 

[CrazyDe1]

Originally posted by: Rallispec
Thanks for the input everyone!


i talked to the poeple at the motorcycle safety foundation, and it looks like they're booked up for the summer as far classes go. (i'm going to keep on them though, someone mayi drop out)

has anyone here tought themselves to ride?

My dad and one of my coworkers have motorcycle licenses -- so hopefully I can at least get them to show me the ropes until I can get into a class and really learn what to do.

This happened to me too. Wait list was 3 months and I couldn't wait so I drove 2 hours to go to a class. I also was waitlisted at 4 different locations.

You won't regret it...riding is one of the greatest things ever. If I don't get on it for a few days I start itching to ride. I think I'm an addict...

 

[boyRacer]

Originally posted by: CrazyDe1

Originally posted by: Rallispec
Thanks for the input everyone!


i talked to the poeple at the motorcycle safety foundation, and it looks like they're booked up for the summer as far classes go. (i'm going to keep on them though, someone mayi drop out)

has anyone here tought themselves to ride?

My dad and one of my coworkers have motorcycle licenses -- so hopefully I can at least get them to show me the ropes until I can get into a class and really learn what to do.

This happened to me too. Wait list was 3 months and I couldn't wait so I drove 2 hours to go to a class. I also was waitlisted at 4 different locations.

You won't regret it...riding is one of the greatest things ever. If I don't get on it for a few days I start itching to ride. I think I'm an addict...

Must be some motorcycle popularity explosion or something...

When I took my MSF around 3 years ago there were no waitlists and some people just showed up when class started, they still took them in.

There was this one guy there though who did buy a bike before he took the class and was just riding around his block.

 

[r6ashih]

take the MSF class first then go to DMV so you dont have to go to the DMV twice.

DONT GET a supersport 600, get the sv650 or ex500

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: AgaBooga
Just curious, how much money would I be looking at for a decent learning bike?

How much could insurance be for a 400-500cc bike for a 16 year old?

dont do it, you will not live to be 18. Get yourself a 50/125cc dirt bike and don't take it on the road till you learn how to *drive*. If i had my CBR when i was 16, i'd be dead right now.
16 year olds DO NOT know how to drive, much less to ride.

Im paying 370/year for plpd and comprehensive ($500 deductible) for a 97 cbr f3. 20 years old, clean record/no pts

How about for simple commuting to school and back? This wouldn't be used on highways or anything, just daily driving speeds. What if I got some 250cc bike?

 

[Whisper]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith

Originally posted by: Triumph

Originally posted by: Cattlegod
The reason I say don't get an sv650 or a gs500 or any other beginner bike is you will become bored with it after about 3 months or so. And, if you buy it new, you will be very angry because if you go to sell it, you will lose thousands.

If you are bored with it, you're basically saying that you've accomplished everything you can with this bike. And that's an ignorant attitude which will get you in trouble. You cannot learn everything there is to know in 3 months. Learn to ride a 250 or 500 WELL, and you'll be an even better 600+ rider than you would be if you started out on one.

Lose thousands? Go look at used prices for a 250R. MSRP new is 2999. You can find them used for 2500, even examples that are a few years old. If anything, the 600 bikes take the most depreciation hit. But losing "thousands" on a 250 or 500? Yeah, the bike doesn't even cost many thousands to begin with.

Everyone keeps calling the 250 or 500 "slow", yet I posted numbers earlier that show its every bit as fast as a WRX or an RX8. So how exactly is the bike slow again?

Good points. As you know, I ride a Hayabusa, and I could still have a blast on a SV 650. There is a lot of racing done with these machines, and there aren't many who can ride it to it's limits. Yeah, it's not as fast as my bike, but so what? I rarely go faster than the SV will go. I enjoy my bike but I would not be ashamed to get the SV or if a new rider the 500 Both are good machines.

Agreed. Hell, when I traded in my 500R after a year, I wasn't bored with the thing...I just wanted to try something new. And no, you will not lose thousands on the resale, especially if you go private. Keep it in good condition and you'll lose maybe a few hundred (perhaps a thousand or so if you bought it new). I bought my 500R when it was a year old for around $3000...sold it later to a friend for $2500 or so.

As far as starting on a 600: just don't do it, it's not worth the risk. I have a Gixxer 600 at the moment, and yes, it is VERY easy to kill yourself on one of these things. As mentioned earlier, the danger won't come in the first few months...it'll hit after you've been riding for half a year or so, feel comfortable, and try to do something that is beyond your skill level. It's actually very easy to misjudge the sharpness of a turn and totally screw up your entry speed. It's also very easy to slide a rear wheel (especially on a wet road) by applying too much rear break.

Get a 250 or 500. If you're bored after half a year, great, try something new. But why take the risk of starting out on a bike that can hit 60mph in under 3 seconds, and tops out around 155. I learned to ride on a Ducati 900SS (do NOT do this), and my Gixxer sometimes scares me more than that thing. Today's sport bikes are no joke.

Edit: as far as insurance goes, I pay somewhere around $270/year for liability on my '97 GSX-R. I've had (I think) two speeding tickets in the last three years. I'm currently 24 years old.

 

[fredtam]

Although I grew up riding dirt bikes my first street bike experience was on a 650 (cruiser) at 15 years old. Then a couple months later (16 yo) I got an FZR600. While I was a squid I rode an FZR1000.

A 250 would make a nice dirt bike.

 

[Rallispec]

i've pretty much decided on an EX500, now its just a matter of finding one.



Oh, and State Farm is screwing me over - they wont insure me until i get my real license (only have permit now) - So if i do buy a bike now, i'll have to go somewhere else to get insurance for it which is a pain in the ass. I was looking at about 900/yr once i had my license though. Not sure if thats good or bad compared to what other people are paying.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Whisper

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith

Originally posted by: Triumph

Originally posted by: Cattlegod
The reason I say don't get an sv650 or a gs500 or any other beginner bike is you will become bored with it after about 3 months or so. And, if you buy it new, you will be very angry because if you go to sell it, you will lose thousands.

If you are bored with it, you're basically saying that you've accomplished everything you can with this bike. And that's an ignorant attitude which will get you in trouble. You cannot learn everything there is to know in 3 months. Learn to ride a 250 or 500 WELL, and you'll be an even better 600+ rider than you would be if you started out on one.

Lose thousands? Go look at used prices for a 250R. MSRP new is 2999. You can find them used for 2500, even examples that are a few years old. If anything, the 600 bikes take the most depreciation hit. But losing "thousands" on a 250 or 500? Yeah, the bike doesn't even cost many thousands to begin with.

Everyone keeps calling the 250 or 500 "slow", yet I posted numbers earlier that show its every bit as fast as a WRX or an RX8. So how exactly is the bike slow again?

Good points. As you know, I ride a Hayabusa, and I could still have a blast on a SV 650. There is a lot of racing done with these machines, and there aren't many who can ride it to it's limits. Yeah, it's not as fast as my bike, but so what? I rarely go faster than the SV will go. I enjoy my bike but I would not be ashamed to get the SV or if a new rider the 500 Both are good machines.

Agreed. Hell, when I traded in my 500R after a year, I wasn't bored with the thing...I just wanted to try something new. And no, you will not lose thousands on the resale, especially if you go private. Keep it in good condition and you'll lose maybe a few hundred (perhaps a thousand or so if you bought it new). I bought my 500R when it was a year old for around $3000...sold it later to a friend for $2500 or so.

As far as starting on a 600: just don't do it, it's not worth the risk. I have a Gixxer 600 at the moment, and yes, it is VERY easy to kill yourself on one of these things. As mentioned earlier, the danger won't come in the first few months...it'll hit after you've been riding for half a year or so, feel comfortable, and try to do something that is beyond your skill level. It's actually very easy to misjudge the sharpness of a turn and totally screw up your entry speed. It's also very easy to slide a rear wheel (especially on a wet road) by applying too much rear break.

Get a 250 or 500. If you're bored after half a year, great, try something new. But why take the risk of starting out on a bike that can hit 60mph in under 3 seconds, and tops out around 155. I learned to ride on a Ducati 900SS (do NOT do this), and my Gixxer sometimes scares me more than that thing. Today's sport bikes are no joke.

Edit: as far as insurance goes, I pay somewhere around $270/year for liability on my '97 GSX-R. I've had (I think) two speeding tickets in the last three years. I'm currently 24 years old.

wanna adopt me?
I'm sure you took drivers ed in an f50 or something too

 

[Rallispec]

one other quick question


where is the best place to look for used bikes? i've been looking online and at local shops -- but i know there are more bikes out thier than this. How did you find yours (for those who have used ones)


second-- where is a good place t buy gear from (helmet, gloves, jacket, etc...)

 

[Kraeji]

used bikes..

www.cycletrader.com
Local sport bike boards (in atlanta www.georgiasportbike.com)
www.sportbikes.net
www.cycleforums.com
www.gixxer.com
www.craigslist.org
www.localriders.com
p220.ezboard.com/bkawasaki500forum
ninja250.kingston.net/board/
ebay
your local paper
talk to ppl who own bikes

where to buy:
www.newenough.com <-- great prices on closeout gear
www.motorcyclecloseouts.com
www.kneedraggers.com
www.indysuperbikes.com
ebay

if you are in atlanta there's a shop in powder springs called Highside motorsports.. great people there.


Oh and about 600cc+ bikes. I own a 2k4 gsxr 600 (not my first bike mind you) and I just bought a 94 ninja 500 to teach my sister how to ride. Funny thing is, I'm having more fun on my ninja 500 b/c it's so easy to flick on the corners and I can push it to the limits. I can't wait to take it to the mountains to pass up some chumps on 600+cc bikes As soon as I fix the fork seals and install a tire im going to see how that ninja500 stunts.

Don't listen to these fools say that you have to get a 600+ bike. They probably don't do anything but commute and never take their bikes up into the twisties. If you are serious about riding you'll get a kawasaki ninja 500/250, suzuki sv650 or gs500 or something equivalent. You'll learn faster and Ride faster on those bikes b/c you wont have to deal with controlling the power. Also if you buy a rashed up used ninja500/250 you probably can sell for almost as much as you bought it. If you find a good deal you might even be able to make money. I got my 94 ninja 500 for $600 and I know I can sell it for over a grand easy.

Just remember.. its more fun to ride a slow bike fast than ride a fast bike slow. I used to want a Gsxr1000 but now I realize it's more power than I ever would use. I'm instead going to use that money for track time to get faster

 

[Kraeji]

Oh and insurance for me is $50 a month for my 04 gix600 full coverage and $25 a month for the 94 ninja 500 liability only.

Sign up for a MSF now.. usually there is a waiting list

OH and make sure you save up for some gear.. You need a helmet (even if the law doesn't require one), gloves(pref with gauntlets), jacket and boots that cover your ankles. Leather works best to prevent road rash and don't be afraid to get "track" gear so you can look like a power ranger.. I do

 

[novon]

Get a suzuki GS500.

I have one for sale!

 

[Kraeji]

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
You want to see how it fits, so get on some.

Are you sure you are talking about bikes?

Yes the seat heights vary a lot

 

[Kraeji]

Originally posted by: Rallispec
Thanks for the input everyone!


i talked to the poeple at the motorcycle safety foundation, and it looks like they're booked up for the summer as far classes go. (i'm going to keep on them though, someone mayi drop out)

has anyone here tought themselves to ride?

My dad and one of my coworkers have motorcycle licenses -- so hopefully I can at least get them to show me the ropes until I can get into a class and really learn what to do.

I taught myself to ride on a honda nighthawk 650sc.. Amazingly I didn't get myself killed.

After a year and a half I took a MSF to make my parents happy. I actually did learn some stuff from it. (looking through the turns and slow u-turns mostly) and it made me a more confident rider.

Then I did a track day and now I feel like nicky hayden