Motherboard for my E4500. Any suggestions? What would you use?

[Hop]

I pretty much decided on my motherboard, at least until I realized I hadn't talked to all you fine people here at Anandtech. Many helped me by taking the time to post in my thread about three Intel processors I was undecided on. Now I'm asking for your thoughts on a good motherboard for the processor I picked, the E4500.

To start it out, I fully plan to overclock, to 3GHz, or maybe 3.2, if I can do it and keep things stable.

I was going by reviews I read on NewEgg.com. So I tentatively picked the
GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3R LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

It hasn't any SLI support, but overclockers like it because of it's solid components, it runs fairly cool on the chipset. I looks like it uses a heat-pipe to channel heat, but there are nagging issues I might have with it.

The IDE connectors are down at the bottom, making clean cabling hard to achieve.

It has no SLI, although this is a forward-thinking thing for me, I don't have immediate use for SLI at present.

I was hoping some of you could tell me if this is a bad choice for me, or maybe confirm my choice, or maybe offer some alternatives. The board goes for $130 at the time of this posting. I'm not too concerned with going up maybe $60-$70 dollars over that retail if my feature gains will warrant it.

Things that might sway me to a higher mobo would be...

• Raid controller stability and/or performance
  Overclocking ease via the bios
  External connections (firewire isn't important, but eSata is, and spdif IN AND OUT)
  SLI
  IDE ports location are a minor concern - a matter of aesthetic appearance of cabling and ease of wiring, unless someone tells me the cable distance can hurt my performance significantly

I touched on spdif earlier. I want to make use of the on-board audio. I have an aging and poorly chosen Audigy (1) with a breakout. I have hum a lot, and mixer issues, not to mention software support issues. I'd rather go Creative Labs-Free on this next build, but don't have the bank to go after M-Audio devices. The only way I found to combat the 'hum' is to go digital audio connections, like spdif. I tried all recommended solutions concerning ground loops, filters, etc. Creative software for windows reminds me of Hauppauge software for windows. I'm sick of the heavy installs, the licensing services that have to run. I want something cleaner for my audio.

Sorry for the long-winded post. I wanted you all to have enough info to help me on this subject.

As always, thanks to all of you for your time reading this and posting to my cause.

I'll need advice on thermal paste and a better HSF, but I'll isolate that in another thread.

 

[myocardia]

The P35-DS3R does not have a heatpipe heatsink on the northbridge. The cheapest one to have a heatpipe is the DS3P, although the DS4 has a much better heatpipe, for $15 more. They also have the IDE connector slightly closer to the top, not that the IDE connector location should make much of a difference, with round IDE cables selling for $1.95.

Those three are pretty much the preferred overclocking boards, along with the Abit IP-35's. None of the IP35's except the IP35 Pro come with built in eSATA, like the Gigabyte boards do, from what I can tell, although it looks as if they do have firewire. Of course, the Gigabyte DS3P & DS4 also have firewire. Note, though, that although the Gigabytes overclock very well, their BIOS's aren't as noob friendly as the IP35's. Of course, there are guides to overclocking with the Gigabyte's all over, so it isn't as if you'd be completely lost, either.

edit: And RAID is going to be acceptable with any of those boards, although the more expensive boards usually have a few more options, like RAID 10.

 

[jonmcc33]

Abit IP35-E. I can't recommend it enough.

 

[Hop]

Originally posted by: myocardia
The P35-DS3R does not have a heatpipe heatsink on the northbridge. The cheapest one to have a heatpipe is the DS3P, although the DS4 has a much better heatpipe, for $15 more. They also have the IDE connector slightly closer to the top, not that the IDE connector location should make much of a difference, with round IDE cables selling for $1.95.

Those three are pretty much the preferred overclocking boards, along with the Abit IP-35's. None of the IP35's except the IP35 Pro come with built in eSATA, like the Gigabyte boards do, from what I can tell, although it looks as if they do have firewire. Of course, the Gigabyte DS3P & DS4 also have firewire. Note, though, that although the Gigabytes overclock very well, their BIOS's aren't as noob friendly as the IP35's. Of course, there are guides to overclocking with the Gigabyte's all over, so it isn't as if you'd be completely lost, either.

I found a lot of resources for overclocking with the gigabytes as you suggested. But if you had to pick, with the external interface features outstanding, what would you pick?

Oh, agreed about the heat pipe. I must have crossed that feature with another board I looked at. =\

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: Hop
I found a lot of resources for overclocking with the gigabytes as you suggested. But if you had to pick, with the external interface features outstanding, what would you pick?

Oh, agreed about the heat pipe. I must have crossed that feature with another board I looked at. =\

Since I have no trouble using google, if I run across something I don't understand, I did pick the Gigabyte P35C-DS3R, because of it's DDR3 capabilities. It's a very nice board, and I loved the fact that it came with not only eSATA capabilities, but also even the external connector.

However, if someone were to tell me that this was gonna be their first time overclocking, I'd probably tell them to buy one of the IP-35's, then if they ever did decide to buy an eSATA hard drive, they could spend some of that money they saved to buy the special little external connector that none of the Abit's come with. Also, I'd recommend the IP-35E for anytime that money's extra tight.

 

[bryanW1995]

I saw an ip35 pro for 149.99 shipped the other day at clubit. pissed me off, until I realized that I could always buy another one to average out my cost of ownership

still there, but now it's 154.49 for version 1.1. It's probably worth the extra $4.50 for v1.1.
http://www.clubit.com/product_...l.cfm?itemno=A4841007#

btw, rebates are only good if it's purchased by 10/31 so you have 1 day!

 

[spinejam]

Originally posted by: jonmcc33
Abit IP35-E. I can't recommend it enough.

i concur!

 

[Build it Myself]

This looks like a pretty sweet board...people recommend this board? I want to overclock a 2xxx series (still debating on 2160 or 2180) up to around 3ghz, with this board this should be feasible, right?

 

[Hop]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
I saw an ip35 pro for 149.99 shipped the other day at clubit. pissed me off, until I realized that I could always buy another one to average out my cost of ownership

still there, but now it's 154.49 for version 1.1. It's probably worth the extra $4.50 for v1.1.
http://www.clubit.com/product_...l.cfm?itemno=A4841007#

btw, rebates are only good if it's purchased by 10/31 so you have 1 day!

That is a sweet looking board, but I'll miss the rebates. Family, Halloween, and I got to this too late.

NewEgg has it for the same retail, with a single $20 MIR, the other $10 isn't on the page. I clicked the link and the offer is good through 11/25/07 so it isn't a complete loss for me.

Thanks for the recommendation!

 

[Hop]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
I saw an ip35 pro for 149.99 shipped the other day at clubit. pissed me off, until I realized that I could always buy another one to average out my cost of ownership

still there, but now it's 154.49 for version 1.1. It's probably worth the extra $4.50 for v1.1.
http://www.clubit.com/product_...l.cfm?itemno=A4841007#

btw, rebates are only good if it's purchased by 10/31 so you have 1 day!

I was just about sold on this board, then my Intel testing friend suggested that I look back at the Gigabyte board I originally focused on. The reason was the capacitors used on the ABit are ceramic (he said), and can leak when overclocking. After a quick peek at the Gigabyte, they use something called all-solid capacitors and are said to be more durable. I don't plan to do any extreme overclocking so would this be something I should be concerned about?

 

[myocardia]

You're right, the IP-35E doesn't have solid capacitors, only the IP-35 and the IP-35 Pro have them. Just click on each motherboard, on this page, for the details of each board.

 

[SerpentRoyal]

Originally posted by: Hop

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
I saw an ip35 pro for 149.99 shipped the other day at clubit. pissed me off, until I realized that I could always buy another one to average out my cost of ownership

still there, but now it's 154.49 for version 1.1. It's probably worth the extra $4.50 for v1.1.
http://www.clubit.com/product_...l.cfm?itemno=A4841007#

btw, rebates are only good if it's purchased by 10/31 so you have 1 day!

I was just about sold on this board, then my Intel testing friend suggested that I look back at the Gigabyte board I originally focused on. The reason was the capacitors used on the ABit are ceramic (he said), and can leak when overclocking. After a quick peek at the Gigabyte, they use something called all-solid capacitors and are said to be more durable. I don't plan to do any extreme overclocking so would this be something I should be concerned about?

Solid caps = marketing scam. My IP35-E oveclocks just as high as my IP35 Pro. The main advantage is the lower profile around the CPU area to accommodate larger CPU cooler.

Inte's top boards also use a combo of solid/electrolytic caps. If the electrolytic caps are made by Nippon Chemi-con, Matsushita/Panasonic, or Rubycon, then then will outlast the useful life of the MB (5-7 years).

All the electrolytic caps on IP35-E are rated at 105C. Some have 100% Rubycon caps, while others use Rubycon and Nippon-Chemicon caps. I don't see Matsushita because some are not made in Japan (Abit advertises 100% Japanese caps).

 

[Hop]

Originally posted by: SerpentRoyal
Solid caps = marketing scam. My IP35-E oveclocks just as high as my IP35 Pro. The main advantage is the lower profile around the CPU area to accommodate larger CPU cooler.

Inte's top boards also use a combo of solid/electrolytic caps. If the electrolytic caps are made by Nippon Chemi-con, Matsushita/Panasonic, or Rubycon, then then will outlast the useful life of the MB (5-7 years).

All the electrolytic caps on IP35-E are rated at 105C. Some have 100% Rubycon caps, while others use Rubycon and Nippon-Chemicon caps. I don't see Matsushita because some are not made in Japan (Abit advertises 100% Japanese caps).

Oh man! Can anyone build a machine without Anandtech at their side?? I would have to say NOT! I felt guilty pushing this thread up again with my comments about the capacitors and now I'm given yet more information I wish I had before! Good info too. So detailed also! The information you gave me SerpentRoyal are things I wondered about but never dreamed I would get info on. Thank you for your technical offering!!!!

I was just digging deeper and thought there might be an issue, and your post pretty much put it to rest. So is it safe to say that Abit, my late selection is gonna be my best choice? Judging by the images I looked at, the heat pipe, would work for me to keep things cool. How much of that fancy cooling hardware is for show though, or do you guys respect it for it's cooling ability?

The main advantage is the lower profile around the CPU area to accommodate larger CPU cooler.

That is really good info. I like options, especially if I want something better for cooling, and that is deep info you normally don't get until you "live and learn" with a motherboard.

I hope you know how valuable that info is to me. Thanks guys, all of you! For helping me make the correct decision. Anandtech rocks! You just can't do this sort of thing until you have come here. I'm so glad I just didn't buy based on NewEgg's reviews. You all helped me to really narrow it down.

 

[SerpentRoyal]

Overclock a quad north of 3.2GHz will place a lot of thermal load on NB, MOSFETs, and CPU coolers. Fancy heat pipes don't do squat without cold air flowing over the cooling fins. The best strategy for an extreme overclocking rig is to put one or more 80-92mm fans above the MOSFET, NB, and RAMs.

People shouldn't focus too much on an ULTRA high-performance front-to-back CPU cooler. The best CPU cooler should also provide attachment points for additional cooling to the MOSFETs, NB, PWM, GPU, and RAMs.

I like the Big Typhoon. Swap the stock fan with a 120 x 38mm medium speed Panaflo to get sufficient air flow to the PWM circuit. One can also make a small bracket to bolt additional 80 or 92mm fans @ the fan mounting screws.

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: SerpentRoyal
One can also make a small bracket to bolt additional 80 or 92mm fans @ the fan mounting screws.

As long as you're good at fabrication, you can fabricate mounting points for additional fans with any of the larger heatpipes, including most of the ones that cool much better than the Big Typhoon.

 

[SerpentRoyal]

The layout of the TR Ultra line does not make it easy to fab a bracket. BT requires 3.5" x 0.5" bracket with three holes. The down-draft 120mm provides an excellent platform for adding more fans. 80mm low speed Panaflos are whisper quiet.

 

[Hop]

Originally posted by: SerpentRoyal
The layout of the TR Ultra line does not make it easy to fab a bracket. BT requires 3.5" x 0.5" bracket with three holes. The down-draft 120mm provides an excellent platform for adding more fans. 80mm low speed Panaflos are whisper quiet.

Agreed! I use nothing else. I don't remember ever having one fail on me either.

 

[Hop]

I wanted to finish up this thread by saying I ordered the Abit IP35 Pro from NewEgg.com last night. They had a one-day $5 off, free shipping, and a $30 mir. Thanks everyone, especially SerpentRoyal for all the info, help, guidance, and advice. That was invaluable to me for my selection! =)

 

[SerpentRoyal]

Any plan to crank up the CPU?

 

[Hop]

Originally posted by: SerpentRoyal
Any plan to crank up the CPU?

Absolutely. I have several links to pages and threads where people with the same hardware as what I ordered have overclocked. I changed my selection of RAM to Crucial Ballistix Tracer 1gb sticks (x2). Lots to consider first though. For one, my power supply. I have an Enermax 500w that has been solid on the voltage rails, and expected it to be being it cost me $120 (the most I ever spent on a PSU, and I'm sure I'll spend more).

I bought a 8600 GT because I couldn't find either of my two 8800 GT 512mb selections anywhere, in-stock that is. The 8600 GT is what I'm putting in my son's rig, so I figured I'll use it, test it, before I build his machine.

The hardware I'll be using;
Abit IP35 Pro
E4500
ZALMAN CNPS9500 LED 92mm 2 Ball Cooling Fan with Heatsink - Retail
Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound - OEM
Crucial Ballistix Tracer 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model BL2KIT12864AL804 - Retail
Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
XFX PVT84JUDD3 GeForce 8600GT XXX 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 SLI Supported Video Card - Retail

Additional Info:
I posted it somewhere, but I think I know the basics. I get hung up on the FSB. I see 800MHz FSB when talking about the RAM (PC6400, 240 pin), but that is really 200 MHz FSB right? I mean, the processor speed is dictated by FSBxMULTIPLIER. In the case of the E4500, that's 200MHz X 11 multiplier = 2.2GHz. To get say, 3.2 GHz, I would have to ramp up the FSB to 290MHz correct? I don't understand the relationship of 800MHz (ram) = 200MHz, but staying with those variables, 290MHz x 4 = 1164MHz. That's pretty high isn't it? Before I do anything, I'll let the system run stock for a week or so to make sure she's stable. I also don't know when it is needed to up the ram voltage, the cpu voltage, or both. I read that some people achieved overclocking without touching the voltages. How do they know that approach is correct?

Sorry, didn't mean to convert this thread into a overclocking thread, but you asked.

 

[SerpentRoyal]

Stock FSB speed is 200MHz x 11 multi for a core speed of 2200MHz. Drop memory divider to 1:1 so that FSB speed = RAM speed. To overclock CPU, raise the FSB speed. At some point, you'll also need to raise Vcore. The chip should run okay up to about 2.9-3.0GHz with default Vcore. A 0.04 bump in Vcore will permit an increase of about 90MHz CPU core speed.

 

[Hop]

Originally posted by: SerpentRoyal
Stock FSB speed is 200MHz x 11 multi for a core speed of 2200MHz. Drop memory divider to 1:1 so that FSB speed = RAM speed. To overclock CPU, raise the FSB speed. At some point, you'll also need to raise Vcore. The chip should run okay up to about 2.9-3.0GHz with default Vcore. A 0.04 bump in Vcore will permit an increase of about 90MHz CPU core speed.

Thank you. I added that to my notes. :thumbsup:

 

[toadeater]

Originally posted by: Hop
ZALMAN CNPS9500 LED 92mm 2 Ball Cooling Fan with Heatsink - Retail

Get the 9700, not the 9500. Big difference in performance and noise.

 

[Hop]

Originally posted by: toadeater
Get the 9700, not the 9500. Big difference in performance and noise.

Oops, oh well. It's on a truck, on it's way to Tempe, AZ right now, but that's OK. I can use it on another machine when I build a lesser C2D. Thanks for the tip.