Question Motherboard dead : Upgrade help

[stanzlavos]

Hi All

My motherboard was damaged recently (have a separate thread for that here : Link), and I am considering upgrading parts of my rig.

Current config :

• MB : Asus Rampage V Extreme
• Proc : Intel Core i7 5820K
• RAM : 32GB => 4 x 8GB, G Skill Ripjaws V 2666 C15Q
• GPU : Zotact GTX1080 Amp Extreme
• Proc Cooler : Corsair H115i
• PSU : Corsair RM1000i
• Storage : 250GB SATA SSD (OS); 500GB SATA SSD(Games); WD Black 4 TB (Gen Storage)
• Drive : LG WH14NS40 Bluray Writer
• Case : Corsair 750D
• Monitor : Acer Predator XB271HU

I am hoping to replace just the MB and Proc. (and upgrade the rest, if needed, in future).

Primary use :

• Gaming
• Photo editing (Lightroom, Photoshop, Focus stacking software)

Inputs needed :

1. Considering going the AMD way.​

Asus ROG Crosshair VIII Hero (Wi-Fi) + AMD Ryzen 9 5950X​

Any counterarguments ? ​

2. Will the 2666 Mhz RAM modules (quad channel kit if IIRC) cause any issues ?​

3. Hoping to reuse the CPU cooler. Corsair website says : "Purchase bracket CW-8960011 on CORSAIR webstore for compatibility with AMD socket AM4". So, I am assuming I could keep this (though I couldn't find the part after a quick search online - I am from India BTW) ?​

4. My current PSU should suffice ?​

5. Will most probably add a 1TB M.2 PCIe SSD. Any suggestions ? Something mid-tier maybe ?​

Thanks in advance for any help you are able to provide.

 

[Shmee]

Sorry again about your old board.
1. A great choice of CPU, probably the best if available, and the board sounds good too, though this comes down to preference a lot by user and what they need
2. RAM should work fine, though you won't get the best performance that you would from 3200MHz-4000MHz with tight timings. Still, it should would work fine.
3. Try reaching out to Corsair, or keep looking online for it.
4. That PSU should be plenty, assuming it is still working in good condition.
5. Since you are going with Ryzen 5000 and most likely some X570 board, I would see if you can get a nice PCIe gen 4 drive for a decent price in your region. Something like the WD Black SN850, Samsung 980 Pro, or Sabrent Rocket 4 Plus. These are very fast drives, though they can be pricey. If you decide to save money and get a cheaper, gen 3 drive, I would look into drives like the 970 Evo, 970 Evo Plus, and WD SN750. Of course this will depend on availability and pricing in your region.

 

[stanzlavos]

Sorry again about your old board.
1. A great choice of CPU, probably the best if available, and the board sounds good too, though this comes down to preference a lot by user and what they need
2. RAM should work fine, though you won't get the best performance that you would from 3200MHz-4000MHz with tight timings. Still, it should would work fine.

1. I chose an Asus assuming that I would be familiar with the "ecosystem". I haven't exactly been keeping track of the "desktop components world" for quite a while and I am new to the AMD world. Any thoughts on why one would consider other options (other than the cost factor) ?
1a. Will all upcoming Zen 3 processors use the current AM4 socket ? Now, ideally, if I purchase the 5950X, I would assume that I will use it for at least the next 5 years (unless something gets fried ). So maybe this questions is already becoming moot. But I'd like to have the option to upgrade to a "better" processor. No guarantees I suppose ?
1b. Will I have to do a BIOS update to get the 5950X working ? Or is it safe to assume that the current X570s would come with the required BIOS ? And more importantly, I should be able to do the update using a USB drive (without the need of another compatible processor) ?

2. If I do decide to get 3200-4000Mhz RAM modules, it would be better to get matched 4x modules than 2x modules ? I think I saw a video from "Gamers Nexus" implying this (unless I understood wrong).

 

[stanzlavos]

Did a bit of research. Will take out a few questions from the previous set.

1. Will all upcoming Zen 3 processors use the current AM4 socket ? Now, ideally, if I purchase the 5950X, I would assume that I will use it for at least the next 5 years (unless something gets fried ). So maybe this questions is already becoming moot. But I'd like to have the option to upgrade to a "better" processor. No guarantees I suppose ?

Also read about Zen4/AM5 for Q2 2022. Anyhow, there is no point in waiting I suppose.

2. If I do decide to get 3200-4000Mhz RAM modules, it would be better to get matched 4x modules than 2x modules ? I think I saw a video from "Gamers Nexus" implying this (unless I understood wrong).

 

[solidsnake1298]

Did a bit of research. Will take out a few questions from the previous set.

1. Will all upcoming Zen 3 processors use the current AM4 socket ? Now, ideally, if I purchase the 5950X, I would assume that I will use it for at least the next 5 years (unless something gets fried ). So maybe this questions is already becoming moot. But I'd like to have the option to upgrade to a "better" processor. No guarantees I suppose ?

Also read about Zen4/AM5 for Q2 2022. Anyhow, there is no point in waiting I suppose.

2. If I do decide to get 3200-4000Mhz RAM modules, it would be better to get matched 4x modules than 2x modules ? I think I saw a video from "Gamers Nexus" implying this (unless I understood wrong).

1. For Zen 3, it will continue to use AM4. They don't change sockets within an architecture.

2. If you are referencing the Gamers Nexus video I think you are, it depends on the memory sticks you use. In that video they were using two and four single rank sticks. In a four stick configuration that would result in two ranks per channel. But if you used, for example, 2x16GB RAM sticks those sticks would likely be dual rank per stick. Two sticks of dual rank RAM would behave the same as four single rank sticks, assuming the frequency and timings were the same.

Most, but not all, 8GB sticks are single rank. Most, if not all, 16GB+ sticks are dual rank. The listings for RAM usually include whether they are single or dual ranked. So, to get the performance increase that Gamers Nexus was demonstrating, you would need four single rank sticks of RAM (probably 8GB each) or two dual rank sticks of RAM (probably 16GB+ each).

 

[stanzlavos]

1. For Zen 3, it will continue to use AM4. They don't change sockets within an architecture.

2. If you are referencing the Gamers Nexus video I think you are, it depends on the memory sticks you use. In that video they were using two and four single rank sticks. In a four stick configuration that would result in two ranks per channel. But if you used, for example, 2x16GB RAM sticks those sticks would likely be dual rank per stick. Two sticks of dual rank RAM would behave the same as four single rank sticks, assuming the frequency and timings were the same.

Most, but not all, 8GB sticks are single rank. Most, if not all, 16GB+ sticks are dual rank. The listings for RAM usually include whether they are single or dual ranked. So, to get the performance increase that Gamers Nexus was demonstrating, you would need four single rank sticks of RAM (probably 8GB each) or two dual rank sticks of RAM (probably 16GB+ each).

Hey, thanks for the detailed explanation. I kinda figured this part after some research.

So I guess, it would be better to go with dual 16GB cards (after ensuring that they are dual rank) ? This way I'd have the option to add on if needed (I don't see why I would need to do that though ).

Have one more question : As mentioned in my initial posts, I already have some RAM modules : 32GB => 4 x 8GB, G Skill Ripjaws V 2666 C15Q. This would essentially mean that the FCLK would be at 1333 Mhz ? If I wanna keep those, what are my options to squeeze as much perf out of them as possible ? And would it be so very bad when compared to say a 3600Mhz kit ? A bit of research shows that for gaming, say at 1440p, it might not be, as the bottleneck is most likely gonna be the GPU (or was this for 3200Mhz+ modules ) ? How about for other workloads like Lightroom, Photoshop etc...

1) Overclock the memory keeping a 1:1 ration with FCLK ?
2) Keep RAM at recommended freq and set FCLK to 1800Mhz (I think I read that such weird ratios are possible but comes with some additional latency)
3) Play with RAM timings ?

 

[solidsnake1298]

2666 CL15 kits rarely overclock much or at all. I used to have a 3000 CL16 kit and I couldn't even get 3133 out of it. Overclocking RAM and tweaking timings is VERY time intensive, due to the time it takes for stability testing. Even with the aide of the Ryzen DRAM Calculator, I still spent DAYS overclocking and testing my kit of Samsung B-die. Unless you are willing to read A LOT and spend days tweaking and testing, I suggest you get a 3600 kit of whatever size and stick count, turn on XMP, and call it a day.

If you keep your current kit, setting the FCLK to 1800Mhz and running your RAM is its stock speed will still yield performance improvements. There is a Gamers Nexus video on that.

In regards to just playing with timings, my comment above still applies. I doubt you would be able to get much more out of your kit.

 

[Shmee]

1. I chose an Asus assuming that I would be familiar with the "ecosystem". I haven't exactly been keeping track of the "desktop components world" for quite a while and I am new to the AMD world. Any thoughts on why one would consider other options (other than the cost factor) ?
1a. Will all upcoming Zen 3 processors use the current AM4 socket ? Now, ideally, if I purchase the 5950X, I would assume that I will use it for at least the next 5 years (unless something gets fried ). So maybe this questions is already becoming moot. But I'd like to have the option to upgrade to a "better" processor. No guarantees I suppose ?
1b. Will I have to do a BIOS update to get the 5950X working ? Or is it safe to assume that the current X570s would come with the required BIOS ? And more importantly, I should be able to do the update using a USB drive (without the need of another compatible processor) ?

2. If I do decide to get 3200-4000Mhz RAM modules, it would be better to get matched 4x modules than 2x modules ? I think I saw a video from "Gamers Nexus" implying this (unless I understood wrong).

Just to add on to what others have already explained, to answer your question about the X570 boards needing BIOS updates for Zen 3, I think it is anyone's guess if you order an X570 board that has been around for a while. A newer released model will likely have Zen 3 support out of the box. Older boards might have been updated, might not have been. Because of this, I would recommend getting a nice board that supports a POSTless update option like Asus has BIOS flashback. Gigabyte, MSI and ASrock also have an equivalent on some of their boards.

As for choosing boards, if you like Asus from the past, they still do have some good options. Again, it will also come down to board features, like how many PCIe slots, how many m.2, and SATA ports, etc. I hear the Dark Hero from Asus has some great Zen 3 OC features.

As for memory OC, I agree it is doubtful you will get much more out of your current RAM kit, though you can always look up what actual memory chips are used in it, and see if those are reported to OC decently.

 

[stanzlavos]

2666 CL15 kits rarely overclock much or at all. I used to have a 3000 CL16 kit and I couldn't even get 3133 out of it. Overclocking RAM and tweaking timings is VERY time intensive, due to the time it takes for stability testing. Even with the aide of the Ryzen DRAM Calculator, I still spent DAYS overclocking and testing my kit of Samsung B-die. Unless you are willing to read A LOT and spend days tweaking and testing, I suggest you get a 3600 kit of whatever size and stick count, turn on XMP, and call it a day.

If you keep your current kit, setting the FCLK to 1800Mhz and running your RAM is its stock speed will still yield performance improvements. There is a Gamers Nexus video on that.

In regards to just playing with timings, my comment above still applies. I doubt you would be able to get much more out of your kit.

Thanks for the input. And yes, I'd rather get the 3600 Kit.

Let me checkout the video.

 

[stanzlavos]

Just to add on to what others have already explained, to answer your question about the X570 boards needing BIOS updates for Zen 3, I think it is anyone's guess if you order an X570 board that has been around for a while. A newer released model will likely have Zen 3 support out of the box. Older boards might have been updated, might not have been. Because of this, I would recommend getting a nice board that supports a POSTless update option like Asus has BIOS flashback. Gigabyte, MSI and ASrock also have an equivalent on some of their boards.

As for choosing boards, if you like Asus from the past, they still do have some good options. Again, it will also come down to board features, like how many PCIe slots, how many m.2, and SATA ports, etc. I hear the Dark Hero from Asus has some great Zen 3 OC features.

As for memory OC, I agree it is doubtful you will get much more out of your current RAM kit, though you can always look up what actual memory chips are used in it, and see if those are reported to OC decently.

Thanks for the input.

I guess I have found the general direction I need to go in. Let me start looking at vendors and the availability/prices of the parts.

 

[stanzlavos]

Just to add on to what others have already explained, to answer your question about the X570 boards needing BIOS updates for Zen 3, I think it is anyone's guess if you order an X570 board that has been around for a while. A newer released model will likely have Zen 3 support out of the box. Older boards might have been updated, might not have been. Because of this, I would recommend getting a nice board that supports a POSTless update option like Asus has BIOS flashback. Gigabyte, MSI and ASrock also have an equivalent on some of their boards.

As for choosing boards, if you like Asus from the past, they still do have some good options. Again, it will also come down to board features, like how many PCIe slots, how many m.2, and SATA ports, etc. I hear the Dark Hero from Asus has some great Zen 3 OC features.

As for memory OC, I agree it is doubtful you will get much more out of your current RAM kit, though you can always look up what actual memory chips are used in it, and see if those are reported to OC decently.

A few more questions :

1) WD Black SN850 vs Samsung 980 Pro : The WD seems to run hotter and the Samsung had some issues (seems to be fixed with some firmware update ?). Any guidance to pick one ?
2) RAM : The ones that are kinda in my budget are 3600Mhz (16-19-19-39) : G-skill Ripjaws V / Trident Z / Trident Z RGB / Trident Z Neo (increasing order of price). Any reason to spend more on the Neos ? (Read that they would be better binned and so could give higher clocks and tighter timings without playing with the voltages)
3) Any reason to go to 4000Mhz : I have so far found 2 options in my budget

• GSkill Ripjaws V 32GB (4x8GB) (17-18-18-38)
• GSkill Ripjaws V 16GB (2X 8GB) x2 (18-22-22-42)

Kinda same price range. But I'll have to fill all my RAM slots (which should be fine I suppose).

 

[Shmee]

1. Honestly I would go with either, or also consider the Sabrent Rocket 4 Plus. Whatever seems like the better price is what I would in this case.

2. I would look into which kit part numbers have which actual chips in them. Generally, Samsung B die kits are the best, especially for OC, but are pricier. They generally behave well with Ryzen, and can scale well when OCing with a bit of extra voltage. Up to 1.5V is fine I hear, possibly more with extra cooling. Other contenders for good DRAM chips are Hynix CJRs and Micron E die. You can look them up and do more research on these.

3. 4000MHz RAM and higher can be a bit tricky on Ryzen, sometimes it is better just to go for an OC ofo 3800MHz with tight timings. That is what I did, with my Gskill B die kits. Higher than 1900MHz FCLK on Ryzen chips can require more voltage SoC, and more tuning. Ideally you should run FCLK synced with DRAM. So 3800MHz DDR4 would get 1900MHz FCLK.
Of course any OC is dependent on the RAM, how many ranks, motherboard support, and your memory controller on the Ryzen.

 

[stanzlavos]

1. Honestly I would go with either, or also consider the Sabrent Rocket 4 Plus. Whatever seems like the better price is what I would in this case.

2. I would look into which kit part numbers have which actual chips in them. Generally, Samsung B die kits are the best, especially for OC, but are pricier. They generally behave well with Ryzen, and can scale well when OCing with a bit of extra voltage. Up to 1.5V is fine I hear, possibly more with extra cooling. Other contenders for good DRAM chips are Hynix CJRs and Micron E die. You can look them up and do more research on these.

3. 4000MHz RAM and higher can be a bit tricky on Ryzen, sometimes it is better just to go for an OC ofo 3800MHz with tight timings. That is what I did, with my Gskill B die kits. Higher than 1900MHz FCLK on Ryzen chips can require more voltage SoC, and more tuning. Ideally you should run FCLK synced with DRAM. So 3800MHz DDR4 would get 1900MHz FCLK.
Of course any OC is dependent on the RAM, how many ranks, motherboard support, and your memory controller on the Ryzen.

With everything else the same (including price), which would be a better pick : 3600 CL16 or 4000 CL18?

Not able to find any 3800 kit. Would it be correct to assume that the 4000 CL18 would easily do 3600 CL16?

 

[Shmee]

For purchasing a kit I am not sure whether 3600 CL16 or 4000 CL18 would be better. They might be the same chips just with different XMP settings, but I wouldn't know without doing more research on the actual kit. I am also not sure which XMP preset would be faster, though you may be able to look at benchmarks and get an idea, or someone else here who does a lot of memory OC might know.

When I was talking 3800MHz I was talking about manually tweaking/overclocking RAM. For instance, overclocking a lesser rated kit, or even underclocking a 4000MHz kit but tightening the timings. If you don't feel like spending time on overclocking and tweaking RAM, maybe it would be best just to get a good 3600MHz kit and calling it a day. If you do, then you should do research into what kits you have available, and see how they OC for other users. And then trial and error.

 

[stanzlavos]

Hi All

Bought the parts (ROG Crosshair VIII Dark Hero, 5950x, G.Skill 2x16GB 3600MHz CL16, WD SN850, Corsair H115i Platinum RGB) yesterday. The Rig is up and running.

Thanks for all the help. Have a few queries on the CPU behaviour though; will start a separate thread for that.