Mother kills newborn, can’t be charged

[wiretap]

"Death panels" has been a term used in Europe long before Palin used it. It refers to their rationing bodies for universal healthcare.

 

[palehorse]

Anyone who supports the mother in this incident needs to eat a bullet. Today.

 

[blackangst1]

I'm astonished at the rightwingers that make politic hay out of this, labeling it a late term abortion when the real issue is a miserably drafted defination of murder by the Virginia legislature. Never let logic prevail over your political agenda, I guess.

Youre confused. Its not being labled an abortion by anyone (that I can see) its being poointed out abortion law allows it to happen. Big difference.

 

[OutHouse]

I am OK with what this women did. I even admire her cleverness, for finding a workaround/fix for the draconian laws preventing her from getting a late term abortion.

this guy and theflyingpig are calling it a late term abortion and totally support the woman.

 

[blackangst1]

this guy and theflyingpig are calling it a late term abortion and totally support the woman.

I re-read the thread, and no, they arent calling it a late term abortion. And flyingpig correctly said she is disturbed.

 

[CycloWizard]

The mother delivered the baby, ie, gave birth here. So-called "partial birth abortion" (not a medical term but one created by anti-abortionists-like "death panels" was created by Palin) is a late term abortion of a potentially viable fetus (that is a fetus that could stay alive through intensive medical intervention). (Incidentally, as anyone who has actually read Roe v. Wade can tell you, the Supreme Court in that case specifically held that the states can regulate and prevent abortions of viable fetuses).

I note that the only people that have labeled this murder of a delivered baby as an abortion are those that are vehemently anti-abortion/anti-freedom of choice, and seek to distort and cloud the issues intentionally. It's an old, simplistic debate tactic.

I have studied the Roe decision and that's NOT what it says. It says that the states may legislate some things in the second two trimesters, but they must allow for an abortion in the case where the mother's health could be threatened. Since pregnancy itself is a threat to the mother's health, this is an open door to allowing abortion at any point in the pregnancy. Nor is an intact dilation and extraction ("medical" term for partial birth abortion) done only in the case where the fetus would be born and require medical treatment: it is almost always done for the mother's "health," rather than because there is something wrong with the fetus.

 

[jman19]

By pretending to be a pile of excrement to attract a few flies? Hardly seems worth it.

Who says he is pretending?

 

[classy]

Wow. That is the saddest news story I have read in awhile. My heart goes out to the father and grandparents. Hopefully Virginia will change this ASAP to reflect a rational and just law.

Yea agree, wow

 

[Triumph]

I note that the only people that have labeled this murder of a delivered baby as an abortion are those that are vehemently anti-abortion/anti-freedom of choice, and seek to distort and cloud the issues intentionally. It's an old, simplistic debate tactic.

I think the whole choice of the phrase "pro choice" is a distortion and clouding of the issue (you know, murder).

 

[Modelworks]

The fact that people had to even think about if this was murder or not is what truly concerns me.

 

[Robor]

I think the whole choice of the phrase "pro choice" is a distortion and clouding of the issue (you know, murder).

No, you are clouding this incident by comparing it to abortion. I would venture to guess most 'pro choice' people are disgusted by this. I know I am.

 

[werepossum]

No, you are clouding this incident by comparing it to abortion. I would venture to guess most 'pro choice' people are disgusted by this. I know I am.

And yet you wouldn't be disgusted if she went to a doctor who partially birthed the baby, punctured and collapsed its skull, then completed the "birth"?

So what would it take to erase your disgust at her actions? Would she need to be a doctor or midwife herself, just wear scrubs, smother the baby in a hospital, or what?

I'm just messing with you, but when people like Blackangst point out that things like this are a natural extension of liberal abortion laws they are exactly right. Why on Earth anyone would be disgusted at the woman killing her own viable baby yet supportive of her right to have someone else kill her viable baby is a mystery to me. Pick a lane!

 

[WHAMPOM]

Better all the armchair quarterbacks ask what so terrified this woman to go through the trama of a secret birth and overwhelmed her maternal instincts enough to kill her baby. I hope she can deal the guilt of her child's death.

 

[Robor]

And yet you wouldn't be disgusted if she went to a doctor who partially birthed the baby, punctured and collapsed its skull, then completed the "birth"?

So what would it take to erase your disgust at her actions? Would she need to be a doctor or midwife herself, just wear scrubs, smother the baby in a hospital, or what?

I'm just messing with you, but when people like Blackangst point out that things like this are a natural extension of liberal abortion laws they are exactly right. Why on Earth anyone would be disgusted at the woman killing her own viable baby yet supportive of her right to have someone else kill her viable baby is a mystery to me. Pick a lane!

The idea of partial birth abortion is just as sickening no matter when/where. I'll confess I could understand if the pregnant woman is in a *REAL* life threatening situation but aside from that the decision to abort should be made as early in the pregnancy as possible.

 

[Robor]

Better all the armchair quarterbacks ask what so terrified this woman to go through the trama of a secret birth and overwhelmed her maternal instincts enough to kill her baby. I hope she can deal the guilt of her child's death.

I'm going with mental illness and/or drugs. This is beyond comprehension otherwise.

 

[werepossum]

The idea of partial birth abortion is just as sickening no matter when/where. I'll confess I could understand if the pregnant woman is in a *REAL* life threatening situation but aside from that the decision to abort should be made as early in the pregnancy as possible.

You and I are probably at about the same place with abortion: It's the woman's right until the baby is viable outside the womb (though it may be murder in G-d's eye) but not the woman's right after the baby is viable outside the womb. Similar to how you may not murder your six year old, but there is no legal mandate to give up a kidney to keep him alive (though hopefully any parent would.)

 

[actuarial]

I'm just messing with you, but when people like Blackangst point out that things like this are a natural extension of liberal abortion laws they are exactly right. Why on Earth anyone would be disgusted at the woman killing her own viable baby yet supportive of her right to have someone else kill her viable baby is a mystery to me. Pick a lane!

About as right as people who think a natural extension of outlawed abortions would be to charge anyone who shoots some knuckle children into a tube sock.

I think the majority of people are against aborting a viable baby unless it is a medical risk to the mother. I know if a doctor told me to choose between wife/baby I'm choosing wife. If we do not allow a medical procedure that will save the wife but kill the baby (in some cases, an abortion), we should not allow a procedure that will kill the wife and save the baby (in some cases, a birth). Now obviously some people will abuse the system (like this woman), so it's up to legislators to make better laws. Should we not allow people to drive because someone will run a red light?

Now obviously unviable fetuses are a completely different story.

 

[Robor]

You and I are probably at about the same place with abortion: It's the woman's right until the baby is viable outside the womb (though it may be murder in G-d's eye) but not the woman's right after the baby is viable outside the womb. Similar to how you may not murder your six year old, but there is no legal mandate to give up a kidney to keep him alive (though hopefully any parent would.)

Pretty much. I don't know where to draw the line as far as the cutoff though. That's a tough call and I'm glad I've never been in the position to be involved in that decision.

 

[werepossum]

Pretty much. I don't know where to draw the line as far as the cutoff though. That's a tough call and I'm glad I've never been in the position to be involved in that decision.

You and me both. Let's hear it for nice simple testicles, just don't hang 'em or hit 'em and there's no moral dilemmas.

 

[Robor]

You and me both. Let's hear it for nice simple testicles, just don't hang 'em or hit 'em and there's no moral dilemmas.

True, unless you're the father.