Mother Jones-black gun ownership is up and climbing

[mu11et]

The more legal gun ownership in this country is a great thing. I could care less what your color is. I encourage all law abiding citizens to get training and apply for a CCL.

 

[glenn1]

The more legal gun ownership in this country is a great thing. I could care less what your color is. I encourage all law abiding citizens to get training and apply for a CCL.

I don't see any need to push them to get a CCL if they don't have reason to, but otherwise 100% yes. There's a very large portion of the gun owning crowd who have no desire to carry and I don't think that's a bad thing. I'm in that group myself.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

the NRA doesn't release their demographics, so we can't prove anything.

Due to race not required on the NRA membership application form, there's no way to determine the demographics.

 

[bshole]

There are numerous reasons of practicality well beyond the National Firearm Act restrictions why that stunning success came to be. Full automatic isn't a particularly practical application for most civilian gun owners. Even the military doesn't provide full auto rifles anymore, the true assault weapon AR15 variants the military uses are selective fire but have single shot and 3-round burst mode. Even the military relegates truly automatic weapons to a small fraction of their infantrymen which wouldn't make sense if full auto was such the GodMode that gun control folks seem to think it is.

I'm guessing most pro gun folks feel about machine guns the same way I do - mildly disappointing they're restricted but a reasonable concession to allow them to be restricted so that the firearms we primarily care about and use (handguns, rifles, and shotguns in typical configurations and calibers) aren't restricted. It's a matter of allowing the bathwater to be thrown out in order to save the baby. Muscle car enthusiasts do something similar when they don't protest too much when laws are passed banning removing catalytic converters or whatnot. Sure some folks would do it without the law but it's better to live with that restriction than someone outlawing all engines above 100CC.

I guess I am against guns more on an emotional level than intellectual level. I can come up with logical reasons to ban guns but I am speaking more from the heart. I live in Milwaukee and sometimes it feels like a god damn war zone. Murder and car jacking is common all over the city. What can we realistically do to curtail it? Banning guns pops immediately to mind because it seems easy. Changing the way that parents raise their children so that they don't become violent predators is impossible. Creating jobs for them is nonstarter. So if banning guns is not the answer to this cycle of violence, what is? I certainly have no suggestions....

 

[glenn1]

I guess I am against guns more on an emotional level than intellectual level. I can come up with logical reasons to ban guns but I am speaking more from the heart. I live in Milwaukee and sometimes it feels like a god damn war zone. Murder and car jacking is common all over the city. What can we realistically do to curtail it? Banning guns pops immediately to mind because it seems easy. Changing the way that parents raise their children so that they don't become violent predators is impossible. Creating jobs for them is nonstarter. So if banning guns is not the answer to this cycle of violence, what is? I certainly have no suggestions....

I know that's a temptation many must feel. But the problem is that it's doing something wrong that negatively impacts other people's rights mostly for your own self-benefit and yet still doesn't really help you anyway. Trump's "let's keep out all Muslims" idea is in the same vein. I know you're not thinking it's a good idea because you're mean or trying to be hurtful but just think through the implementation of it and ask yourself "how would this actually work once we began infringing someone else' rights? Is that gun owner/legal Muslim immigrant/whatever really the risk I'm worried about or is it something else?"

 

[jman19]

Having a gun if you're black seems to be more of a liability than an asset. At least if you're hoping to not be shot by the police.

 

[ivwshane]

Having a gun if you're black seems to be more of a liability than an asset. At least if you're hoping to not be shot by the police.

Now you know why some of them see this trend as a good thing.

 

[Artdeco]

Now you know why some of them see this trend as a good thing.

You have some serious issues if you really think anyone here feels that way.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

I guess I am against guns more on an emotional level than intellectual level.

Yes, I know.

I can come up with logical reasons to ban guns

No you can't.

but I am speaking more from the heart.

Yes, I know.

I live in Milwaukee and sometimes it feels like a god damn war zone. Murder and car jacking is common all over the city. What can we realistically do to curtail it? Banning guns pops immediately to mind because it seems easy.

Evidence of the emotional reasoning that a murderer / car-jacker will murder and car-jack despite those activities being against the law but will surrender their guns since that's against the law. Less emotions, more logic please.

Changing the way that parents raise their children so that they don't become violent predators is impossible.

We can stop sending them to jail for drugs. Sending a non-violent offender to jail makes them 7x more likely to return to jail for a violent offense. End the war on drugs. Stop creating violent people in our prison system. Win.

So if banning guns is not the answer to this cycle of violence,

Correct, it is not.

what is? I certainly have no suggestions....

 

[elitejp]

Having a gun if you're black seems to be more of a liability than an asset. At least if you're hoping to not be shot by the police.

Having a gun is going to be a huge liability for any race when encountering police.
You having a gun right there will tell police that their life is in danger and if you decide to do what you want and try to provoke the cops into thinking you are a threat, even if you dont reach for your gun, then its going to cause a lot of needless deaths.

What I see as a very common occurrence from people who have got shot by the police is that they werent listening to the police directions and they made abrupt movements. I DO NOT support the idea that cops must first see a gun before they can react to what might be a gun.
Just like I dont agree that a someone entering your house isnt a threat until they have actually committed a crime. If im protecting my family from an intruder im not going to wait until he rapes my wife or shoots one of my kids to then decide I need to take action. Unfortunately laws in some states basically require a crime to occur before you are allowed to protect yourself.

So black ownership of guns is up. So what, good for them. Makes no difference to me

 

[elitejp]

Damn a shit ton of OLD white dudes. Is this a generational thing?

probably more of a locational thing.
Plus as a young adult do you really want to go to a gun show or would you rather be doing something else. I like guns but if I want to buy one I will go to a gun store not make a special occasion out of it.

 

[elitejp]

True but also misleading. Per capita rate is the better measure than net totals and blacks are killed and kill at per capita rates vastly higher than other races. They also are involved in committing interracial homicides at much higher rates than other races.

No argument on the statement that increased lawful firearm ownership by non-whites is a good thing.

So an all lives matter thing should be emphasized fairly strongly.

Most people are good people but media has been putting every black death killed by a non black person on the front page headlines. They are purposefully making cops and white people as racists black hating people. I dont even know a single white person that is racist. Maybe its just the group I hang out with but how many people here truly have a racist person that they know? They are pretty hard to find.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

Having a gun is going to be a huge liability for any race when encountering police.

What the fuck? If having a gun is LEGAL then whey should police fear it? Either make it illegal or fuck off. Do you understand that cops have guns? Is that a liability to me or should I fear them because they have guns? Of course not, it is legal.

You having a gun right there will tell police that their life is in danger

What the fuck? You seem stupid. Having a gun doesn't threaten a cop any more than having a car. Either thing can be used to kill a cop.

and if you decide to do what you want and try to provoke the cops into thinking you are a threat, even if you dont reach for your gun, then its going to cause a lot of needless deaths.

How is it even possible to "provoke the cops into thinking you are a threat" without reaching for the gun? Needless deaths are not caused by simply possessing a gun. They are caused by an scared asshole with authority who knows he can't ever be convicted.

What I see as a very common occurrence from people who have got shot by the police is that they werent listening to the police directions and they made abrupt movements.

My child frequently doesn't listen to my directions. He also makes abrupt movements. I have never shot him to death. Abrupt movements is so fucking vague that I can't believe you would use it as justification for ending a life.

I DO NOT support the idea that cops must first see a gun before they can react to what might be a gun.

Well, it's because you are an asshole.

Just like I dont agree that a someone entering your house isnt a threat until they have actually committed a crime.

Breaking and entering is a crime.

If im protecting my family from an intruder im not going to wait until he rapes my wife or shoots one of my kids to then decide I need to take action. Unfortunately laws in some states basically require a crime to occur before you are allowed to protect yourself.

Breaking and entering is a crime.

So black ownership of guns is up. So what, good for them. Makes no difference to me

Super opinion, bro.

 

[elitejp]

What the fuck? If having a gun is LEGAL then whey should police fear it? Either make it illegal or fuck off. Do you understand that cops have guns? Is that a liability to me or should I fear them because they have guns? Of course not, it is legal.

Yes but people do illegal things with guns. Isnt that why so many people advocate stricter gun control?

What the fuck? You seem stupid. Having a gun doesn't threaten a cop any more than having a car. Either thing can be used to kill a cop.

Having a method at your immediate disposal that could be used to kill a cop most certainly will heighten their level of precaution.
My hands can also kill but it isnt nearly in the league of having an gun ready to be used at any second. Your point is very weak.
And im sure the procedure for dealing with an armed suspect is vastly different than dealing with an unarmed suspect. So the entire police force thinks differently than you.

How is it even possible to "provoke the cops into thinking you are a threat" without reaching for the gun? Needless deaths are not caused by simply possessing a gun. They are caused by an scared asshole with authority who knows he can't ever be convicted.

We just had two incidents where someone got shot and killed because the police believe they were making a move for a gun.
The police officer shot one guy who had a concealed gun and told the cop so. However when the cop told him not to move he still moved and reached for something. We dont know what he was reaching for because the cop shot the guy. Maybe the guy was going for the gun and wanted to give it to the cop, maybe he wanted to shoot the cop, or maybe he was reaching for something else. Whatever it was the cop didnt want to die first and then know for certainty that this guy was dangerous. So he had to make a judgement call.
Then today i see here in p&n where a black guy with a hand in his back pants where you would conceal a gun is walking towards the police and saying he doesnt care if he lives or dies. And after over 30 times of the cops warning him that if he doesnt comply they will use force and shoot him. Well you know what happens next. The suspect didnt have a gun but he was purposely making the cops very suspicious of his motives.

My child frequently doesn't listen to my directions. He also makes abrupt movements. I have never shot him to death. Abrupt movements is so fucking vague that I can't believe you would use it as justification for ending a life.

You know your child, but you dont know me. And if i come walking up to you acting like jerk and brandishing a firearm at my side im sure you would shoot first and ask later if I made any movement towards that gun.[/QUOTE]

Well, it's because you are an asshole.

I would love to see how you would handle a potentially dangerous situation where a gun could be present and your life in danger.

Breaking and entering is a crime.



Breaking and entering is a crime.

It certainly is but you can not use force to make the intruder leave if they havent used force on you. I think thats a stupid policy.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

Yes but people do illegal things with guns. Isnt that why so many people advocate stricter gun control?

The vast majority of people with guns don't do illegal things with the. THE VAST MAJORITY. The even vaster majority don't do illegal things to cops. The type of fear you are insinuating that I should feel is ridiculous and completely illogical.

Having a method at your immediate disposal that could be used to kill a cop most certainly will heighten their level of precaution.

Everyone who is pulled over by a cop has a method at their immediate disposal that could be used to kill a cop: their car. It blows my mind how evil and stupid you think that people are and how stupid and fearful you think that cops should be.

My hands can also kill but it isnt nearly in the league of having an gun ready to be used at any second.

"gun ready to be used at any second." Literally any item in the car can be "ready to be used at any second." This is nothing more than flowery language intended to create irrational fear in people. Please stick to logic and leave out the hyperbole. Yes, lots of things can kill cops at any given time. But they almost never do.

And im sure the procedure for dealing with an armed suspect is vastly different than dealing with an unarmed suspect. So the entire police force thinks differently than you.

The entire police force is made up of fearful people who are scared of seemingly everything and who think that shooting someone because they "MIGHT" have a gun is cool shit. The entire police force is made up of people who think that the correct punishment for growing marijuana is to be thrown in assrape prison for years. I'm not weighing their opinions very highly.

We just had two incidents where someone got shot and killed because the police believe they were making a move for a gun.

That is a lot of fucking leeway. "I believe they were making a move for a gun" can not be disproved. It can and has been used as an excuse for a lot of unjustified murders. All in the name of "police safety comes first".

The police officer shot one guy who had a concealed gun and told the cop so.

That was the guy's duty: to inform the police of a legally carried gun. Who in the shit warns a cop that they are legally carrying and then actually shoots the cop? Why would a murderer do this? Why would they not just simply shoot the cop? When has this ever actually happened in history and why is this such a fear as to justify a murder?

However when the cop told him not to move he still moved and reached for something.

The cop told him to get his ID. He obeyed and was shot.

We dont know what he was reaching for because the cop shot the guy.

We do know. He was reaching for his ID as requested.

Maybe the guy was going for the gun and wanted to give it to the cop, maybe he wanted to shoot the cop, or maybe he was reaching for something else. Whatever it was the cop didnt want to die first and then know for certainty that this guy was dangerous. So he had to make a judgement call.

I can't kill someone simply because I don't know if they want to kill me or not. Nobody can except for cops. Why should a badge and uniform allow someone to kill whomever the fuck they can't CONFIRM might not want to kill them? That is NOT the standard of killing someone. Ever. For anyone.

Then today i see here in p&n where a black guy with a hand in his back pants where you would conceal a gun is walking towards the police and saying he doesnt care if he lives or dies. And after over 30 times of the cops warning him that if he doesnt comply they will use force and shoot him. Well you know what happens next. The suspect didnt have a gun but he was purposely making the cops very suspicious of his motives.

Insert random cop good shoot as if it has anything whatsoever to do with the topic. One cop made a good kill so therefore all cops do. Lame as shit.

You know your child, but you dont know me. And if i come walking up to you acting like jerk and brandishing a firearm at my side im sure you would shoot first and ask later if I made any movement towards that gun.

If I were a cop who INITIATED the confrontation by pulling you over, and then you informed me of your weapon, and then I asked for your ID, and then your reached for it, i would NOT shoot you. Because the situation you are describing has absoFUCKINGlutely NOTHING to do with what ACTUALLY happened in this situation. What does the thing you just described have to do with what happened?

I would love to see how you would handle a potentially dangerous situation where a gun could be present and your life in danger.

You think if I think a gun "could be" present that I would just shoot the motherfucker? Dumb ass. Good God I hope you don't work in a position of authority. Yet you likely do.

It certainly is but you can not use force to make the intruder leave if they havent used force on you. I think thats a stupid policy.

Same team. I totally agree with this.

 

[jman19]

Now I can add the coming race war to my reasons to go long on the arms industry. And let me also say BOOOOO! You da one I'm after.....

Hey there is a profit to be made here :thumbsup:

 

[werepossum]

Having a gun if you're black seems to be more of a liability than an asset. At least if you're hoping to not be shot by the police.

I dunno, a gun can protect you from bad people. Sure it can get you shot by a cop, but there are vastly more crimes by bad people than there are bad shootings from cops. Besides which, literally anything or nothing can get you shot by a cop in the wrong circumstances.

Easy fix here: If you get pulled over, have your license, registration, etc, on the dash when he comes up, with your hands on the wheel, and be polite. It really is that simple.

 

[blankslate]

Easy fix here: If you get pulled over, have your license, registration, etc, on the dash when he comes up, with your hands on the wheel, and be polite. It really is that simple.

You know I bet some people could have all of that on the dash and hands on the steering with cuffs on their wrists to the steering wheel and somehow some LEO would find a reason to shoot them....

Just saying


_________

 

[bshole]

I dunno, a gun can protect you from bad people. Sure it can get you shot by a cop, but there are vastly more crimes by bad people than there are bad shootings from cops. Besides which, literally anything or nothing can get you shot by a cop in the wrong circumstances.

Easy fix here: If you get pulled over, have your license, registration, etc, on the dash when he comes up, with your hands on the wheel, and be polite. It really is that simple.

Statistically though, you are more likely to kill a family member or friend with the gun. About 6000 of these a year.
https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/u...o-law-enforcement/expanded/expandhomicidemain

About 400 justified homicide by guns a year
https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/u.../crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl14.xls

So it is a factor of 10 going on there. The wildcard is that I couldn't find was the number of times a gun owner protected themself without killing somebody. I would imagine that number is significantly higher than 400/yr.

 

[michal1980]

I guess I am against guns more on an emotional level than intellectual level. I can come up with logical reasons to ban guns but I am speaking more from the heart. I live in Milwaukee and sometimes it feels like a god damn war zone. Murder and car jacking is common all over the city. What can we realistically do to curtail it? Banning guns pops immediately to mind because it seems easy. Changing the way that parents raise their children so that they don't become violent predators is impossible. Creating jobs for them is nonstarter. So if banning guns is not the answer to this cycle of violence, what is? I certainly have no suggestions....

so you want feel good laws?

typical liberal, lets do something because it feels good.