Mortgage Meltdown:10-5 Mortgage forgiven for woman, 90, who shot herself

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Simple question.

Do you blame the 90 year old woman or the lender?

I say the Mortgage she was given was inappropriate for her, a reverse mortgage is what should have been done in her case.

10-5-2008 Mortgage forgiven for woman, 90, who shot herself

AKRON, Ohio - Mortgage finance company Fannie Mae said it is forgiving the mortgage debt of a 90-year-old woman who shot herself in the chest as sheriff's deputies attempted to evict her.

Addie Polk's plight was cited by Rep. Dennis Kucinich, D-Ohio, on Friday before the House voted to approve the $700 billion financial rescue package. Kucinich voted against the plan.

Fannie Mae announced later Friday that it would dismiss its foreclosure action, forgive Polk's mortgage and allow her to return to the Akron home where she's lived since 1970.

She became the home's sole owner in 1995 when her husband died, then took out a mortgage loan in 1997 and refinanced several times, court and property records show.

Countrywide Home Loans filed for foreclosure last year, and Polk's home was sold to Fannie Mae at a sheriff's auction in June. Deputies were to escort Polk from her home Wednesday when gunshots were heard inside.

"Just given the circumstances, we think it's appropriate," Fannie Mae spokesman Brian Faith said, citing Kucinich's statement and news reports. "It certainly made our radar screen."

======================================================

In a related matter, Bank of America that bought the defunct Countrywide Scam Mortgage company that I said would be the first to go down back in Jan 2007 settled a lawsuit brought by 11 states against their predatory and misleading business practices:


Originally posted by: scruffypup
I cannot see how anyone could blame the lender in these situations, there is a truth in lending act where the terms are laid out to a person prior to them signing. The person taking a loan has the option to sign or not, and if they don't understand it, they can take it to someone to explain it to them better or do research,... noone holds a gun to these people.

On top of that fact, there were foreclosures occuring to people before this current "mess", so whether you want to blame this mess on the greed of the American people, greed of American businesses, the Fed keeping rates too low for too long, the lobbyism of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and Countrywide to Democrats, to the current president for being president while this occurs matters not. This stuff happened before, it just tends to get more recognition now since it is on a larger scale and it is an election year.

People in this country need to start being responsible for their own actions, quit blaming others, demanding a hand out, etc.

Of course now there will be replies stating I have no compassion, I do, but sorry the truth hurts when our country as a whole has been acting irresponsible for quite a while.

Bullshit. What Financial Company payroll are you on?

What is it you don't understand about the words predatory and misleading?

Everyday Americans were bombarded with false, misleading and deceptive advertising about these loans.

Hidden in tiny unintelligible print at the bottom to the ordinary citizen was legalese that I'm sure not even 90% of Lawyers could decipher.

In fact Countrywide just this morning admitted this very fact:

10-6-2008 Countrywide Settles State Consumer Fraud Cases for $8.4 Billion

Countrywide Financial Corp., the home mortgage lender, will offer interest rate and loan principal reductions plus other distressed borrower relief valued at $8.4 billion to settle consumer fraud complaints from 11 states.

The accord, which includes relocation assistance for homeowners whose homes have been or are about to be foreclosed, will affect about 400,000 customers and resolves lawsuits filed against it by attorneys general in Illinois, California and Florida and complaints from eight other states, according to attorneys general Lisa Madigan of Illinois and Edmund G. ``Jerry'' Brown of California.

The package will likely become the largest predatory lending settlement in history, Brown said in a press statement yesterday.

The states' suits sought unspecified restitution for homeowners. California also asked for civil fines of as much as $2,500 for each violation of state laws banning unfair business practices and misleading advertising.
 

XZeroII

Lifer
Jun 30, 2001
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What does it matter who is to blame? Why do we always have to find someone to point the finger at? Just talk about and debate the story.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,485
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The woman for being stupid, and the lender for being corrupt.

Result? Establish her as the sole owner of the house, throw a large fine on the lender, and throw him in jail if he does not comply.
 

techs

Lifer
Sep 26, 2000
28,559
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Anyone else find this just so sad?
For a 90 year old woman to be evicted and so distraught she shoots herself.
Welcome to Bushes America.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,837
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Personally I feel sorry for the sheriff's deputies. What a d*mn miserable job they got.
 

SoundTheSurrender

Diamond Member
Mar 13, 2005
3,126
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Originally posted by: techs
Anyone else find this just so sad?
For a 90 year old woman to be evicted and so distraught she shoots herself.
Welcome to Bushes America.

This is what we get for allowing corporations to influence policies.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
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www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: techs
Anyone else find this just so sad?
For a 90 year old woman to be evicted and so distraught she shoots herself.
Welcome to Bushes America.

So let me get this straight - a person doesn't pay what they owe and you think it's "sad" that they went through the eviction process? This has NOTHING to do with Bush either.

Obviously this woman was struggling to pay her bills but that doesn't mean she shouldn't have to pay them just because she is old. AGE has NOTHING to do with this either.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
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So anyone struggling with their mortgage can just shoot themselves and get a free house from their lender? Boy, I sure hope this doesn't catch on.
 

Wheezer

Diamond Member
Nov 2, 1999
6,731
1
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Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: techs
Anyone else find this just so sad?
For a 90 year old woman to be evicted and so distraught she shoots herself.
Welcome to Bushes America.

So let me get this straight - a person doesn't pay what they owe and you think it's "sad" that they went through the eviction process? This has NOTHING to do with Bush either.

Obviously this woman was struggling to pay her bills but that doesn't mean she shouldn't have to pay them just because she is old. AGE has NOTHING to do with this either.

it's unfortunate, but there are people in this world, and especially on this board, that simply want to point the finger and blame the person/party they oppose because in their mind there is NO WAY that their party, their belief system could contribute to such a cluster fuck....


Well, I hate to break it to you guys.......but as a wise old maintenance man said to me when we were working 60+ hours of overtime a week together......

"It's a big shit sandwich and we all gotta take a bite"

Sorry techs, but if you look back on the long history of this thing, your boys have as much blood on their hands as Bush.


 

LumbergTech

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2005
3,622
1
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Originally posted by: DealMonkey
So anyone struggling with their mortgage can just shoot themselves and get a free house from their lender? Boy, I sure hope this doesn't catch on.

anyone?
90 years old

 

TheSlamma

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2005
7,625
5
81
Let me get this straight... if you borrow money from a bank.. you have to pay it back?
 

fleshconsumed

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2002
6,486
2,363
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I read about it several days ago on CNN. I think she took out 30 year mortgage for 40K. I really don't understand what she was thinking when she got it. She is 90 years old, she has no hope of repaying it before she dies.
 

Born2bwire

Diamond Member
Oct 28, 2005
9,840
6
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Originally posted by: fleshconsumed
I read about it several days ago on CNN. I think she took out 30 year mortgage for 40K. I really don't understand what she was thinking when she got it. She is 90 years old, she has no hope of repaying it before she dies.

I don't think she has to worry about repaying it after she dies...

Personally, I blame the gun manufacturers.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
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Just evict her. Business is business. Let her family take her in. Use to be your family took care of you before the government wanted to become the socialist party.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
6
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Of course, when debt is forgiven, the IRS and state consider the forgiven debt to be income to the borrower. $40k income on top of whatever else she earns is likely to increase her federal taxes at least $4k and her Ohio taxes at least $1500.

We may be hearing another shotgun blast on April 15.

Edit: The size of the mortgage was actually over $45k. So Addie Polk will owe taxes in excess of $6000 on this forgiven debt.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,837
2,621
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Originally posted by: shira
Of course, when debt is forgiven, the IRS and state consider the forgiven debt to be income to the borrower. $40k income on top of whatever else she earns is likely to increase her federal taxes at least $4k and her Ohio taxes at least $1500.

We may be hearing another shotgun blast on April 15.

Edit: The size of the mortgage was actually over $45k. So Addie Polk will owe taxes in excess of $6000 on this forgiven debt.

I believe they have changed the rules on imputed income on forgiveness of debt in foreclosure situations so that should not occur. Especially if she was insolvent at the time of foregiveness, which I think we can assume is the case.

A sad situation in terrible times. You can see why Countrywide essentially went bellyup, though.
 

Drift3r

Guest
Jun 3, 2003
3,572
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Question - Did any major banks ever step up to the plate when legislation to remove the regulations that once prevented these types of loans from going through ever step up in D.C. and say "No ! We don't want these regulations removed fromr our industry!."?
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,029
2
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I blame the Fed for shoving the money out. Low interest rates lead to malinvestment.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
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Not enough information here for me to point blame in any direction (including Bush's, :roll: at techs).

A side note BTW is that it is illegal for lenders to discriminate on the basis of age (provided the applicant is of legal age), so it's not like C'wide or any other lender could have turned her down for being 90 years old. At the same time, reverse mortgages are only eligible to people with substantial equity in their homes. So if this lady had already refinanced her home frequently in the past, it seems to me unlikely that she would have had enough equity left to qualify for a reverse mortgage. Then there's the question, why did she keep refinancing? Most likely, she was pulling equity out of her home because she was living beyond her means. Maybe her means were too meager to live on (unknown) or maybe they weren't weren't, but it seems clear she lost the home when she could no longer dip into that equity well any more. Meh. I'm honestly glad she'll get to keep it after all, but otherwise I don't think people should make of this more than what it is.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
Originally posted by: shira
Of course, when debt is forgiven, the IRS and state consider the forgiven debt to be income to the borrower. $40k income on top of whatever else she earns is likely to increase her federal taxes at least $4k and her Ohio taxes at least $1500.
-snip-

Nope, it's been for sometime now that for foirgiven debt on a home is non-taxable. However, forgiven debt on credit cards IS taxable.

BTW: I'm pretty sure that the bail-out bill recently passed extend the non-taxability of forgiveness of debt on a home (at least the House version I read had that provision in it).
- - - - -
While it's a sad story, people are responsible for ther investment/finance decisions.

Before forming any opinion, I'd like to know why she took out the new mortgage; why did she want the $40K? What did she do with it?

I do not see why Fannie should forgive the debt.

Also it's highly unlikely that Fannie had much to do with it. 10 years ago there were many small mortgage broker; most likely she made the loan through one of those. IMO, that's what should be looked into; did this broker lie to her or falsify her loan application sheet so they could make commisions on the loan?

She had to have other problems; the monthly payment on a (30 year) $40K mortgage is only $200-300. Even on social security and medicare, that ain't hard to make.

Fern
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: piasabird
Just evict her. Business is business. Let her family take her in. Use to be your family took care of you before the government wanted to become the socialist party.

This is not an accurate statement. Before social security (and other such programs), old poor people without families (or families willing to take care of them for whatever reason) would still be taken care of by the government by means of poor houses/poor farms. Text

Yaknow, social problems don't just go away because you ignore them. You can argue the attempted 'fixes' all you want, but doing nothing is not an option (because that's just yet another already failed attempted fix itself).
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
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wow talk about setting a bad precedent. i would not be surprised if there is a self shooting spree in the coming months.
 

ICRS

Banned
Apr 20, 2008
1,328
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This one had a 30 year fixed rate loan with a good interest rate. This was not some NINA or LIAR loan. I suspect she thought she was so old that she would be dead by this time. She probaby never thought she would have to pay off this loan.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
6
81
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: shira
Of course, when debt is forgiven, the IRS and state consider the forgiven debt to be income to the borrower. $40k income on top of whatever else she earns is likely to increase her federal taxes at least $4k and her Ohio taxes at least $1500.
-snip-

Nope, it's been for sometime now that for foirgiven debt on a home is non-taxable. However, forgiven debt on credit cards IS taxable.

BTW: I'm pretty sure that the bail-out bill recently passed extend the non-taxability of forgiveness of debt on a home (at least the House version I read had that provision in it).
- - - - -
While it's a sad story, people are responsible for ther investment/finance decisions.

Before forming any opinion, I'd like to know why she took out the new mortgage; why did she want the $40K? What did she do with it?

I do not see why Fannie should forgive the debt.

Also it's highly unlikely that Fannie had much to do with it. 10 years ago there were many small mortgage broker; most likely she made the loan through one of those. IMO, that's what should be looked into; did this broker lie to her or falsify her loan application sheet so they could make commisions on the loan?

She had to have other problems; the monthly payment on a (30 year) $40K mortgage is only $200-300. Even on social security and medicare, that ain't hard to make.

Fern

My bad. I forgot about the Mortgage Forgiveness Debt Relief Act (of 2007). However, if the IRS is really picky they could still nail Polk, since the actual order of events doesn't quite match the criteria under the Act: The house had already been sold from under Polk (in June). At that point, the house was no longer hers. But then the house was returned to her (in October) and the mortgage debt forgiven.
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
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Originally posted by: bamacre
I blame the Fed for shoving the money out. Low interest rates lead to malinvestment.

Only if you believe in the nonsense of Ron Paul Economics.