Mormon Prophet has been summoned to court on charges of Fraud in the UK

mect

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2004
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"Before me the undersigned
That between 3rd February 2008 and 31st December 2013 dishonestly and intending thereby to make a gain for himself or another or a loss or risk of loss to another made or caused to be made representations to Stephen Colin Bloor, which were and which you knew were or might be untrue or misleading and thereby induce the said Stephen Colin Bloor to pay an annual tithe to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, namely that
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i) The Book of Abraham is a literal translation of Egyptian papyri by Joseph Smith.
ii) The Book of Mormon was translated from ancient gold plates by Joseph Smith is the most correct book on earth and is an ancient historical record.
iii) Native Americans are descended from an Israelite family which left Jerusalem in 600 B.C.
iv) Joseph and Hyrum Smith were killed as martyrs in 1844 because they would not deny their testimony of the Book of Mormon.
v) The Illinois newspaper called the Nauvoo Expositor had to be destroyed because it printed lies about Joseph Smith.
vi) There was no death on this planet prior to 6,000 years ago.
vii) All humans alive today are descended from just two people who lived approximately 6,000 years ago.
Contrary to section 1 of the Fraud Act 2006
You are therefore summoned to appear before Westminster Magistrates’ Court, 181 Marylebone Road, London, NW1 SBA on 14/03/2014 at 10AM in Courtroom 6 to answer the said information
Failure to attend may result in a warrant being issued for your arrest."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...arges-that-mormon-religious-claims-are-fraud/

Now the mormon church has a lot of money and legal resources, so my bet is that this likely won't go anywhere. This also appears to be the opinion of many legal professionals, both in the US and in the UK. One common thing that keeps appearing is that this is ridiculous because religious beliefs are precluded from challenge in secular courts. However, I don't think this is actually directly about the beliefs, but rather fraudulent presentation of these beliefs. I think the criminal fraud claimed is that the either the church officials do not actually believe the points made or else intentionally and willfully withhold or lie about the beliefs mentioned (or significant facts relevant to these points) in order to get converts. It will be interesting to see if anything comes of this.
 

alzan

Diamond Member
May 21, 2003
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"vi) There was no death on this planet prior to 6,000 years ago."

Dang, born in the wrong millennium again!
 

TreVader

Platinum Member
Oct 28, 2013
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Leave the mormons alone. It's the amish that are truly corrupting America's youth.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,809
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long as all other religions are next i think its fair.

hehe, part of me wants to see this, but most of me is worried about the can of worms it opens.

I think it's better to convince people of the error of their beliefs. Once you get the Law involved all kinds of abuses could begin.
 

mect

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2004
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long as all other religions are next i think its fair.

As I stated in the OP, I really don't think its over beliefs, but rather misrepresenting beliefs to potential converts as well as members in order to collect money. I think mormons are somewhat unique due to the significant and agressive missionary force they run, the fact that the church is actually a corporation, and depending on how this case plays out, potentially evidence indicating intentional falsifying or withholding of significant information relevant to their beliefs. Scientology for example has been successfully prosecuted in France, but it didn't open up a big free for all. Although, I do agree somewhat that many religions are given a special pass in terms of fraud strictly because they are religious. They should not receive special treatment in terms of collecting money simply because they are categorized as religions.
 

peonyu

Platinum Member
Mar 12, 2003
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They go after a religion that has hardly any adherents over there...How about going after Jews or Muslims ? Yea didnt think so.
 

MagickMan

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2008
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If the person "selling" those beliefs actually believes they're true, how can it be fraud? Yeah, logically it's bunk, but a lot of people are 100% convinced of some pretty wacky stuff; virgin births, corpses rising from the dead, haunted houses, aliens abducting people and probing them in the ass, etc..
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
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They go after a religion that has hardly any adherents over there...How about going after Jews or Muslims ? Yea didnt think so.

Do Jews and Muslim pay a tithe?
How many Muslims, Jews, and Mormons are there in London?
I'm guessing they have case built around disproving those points they made?
 
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schmuckley

Platinum Member
Aug 18, 2011
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Well..guess that guy won't be getting any extra blessings;or restitution even. :eek:
Big waste of time and taxpayer money.
 

mect

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2004
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If the person "selling" those beliefs actually believes they're true, how can it be fraud? Yeah, logically it's bunk, but a lot of people are 100% convinced of some pretty wacky stuff; virgin births, corpses rising from the dead, haunted houses, aliens abducting people and probing them in the ass, etc..

I don't believe the case is over the actual beliefs, but rather misrepresenting those beliefs and/or withholding significant information about those beliefs in order to get people to convert or stay in the church.
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
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I don't believe the case is over the actual beliefs, but rather misrepresenting those beliefs and/or withholding significant information about those beliefs in order to get people to convert or stay in the church.

Am I reading something wrong? Isn't the case about getting people to fork over money to the church?
 

mect

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2004
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Am I reading something wrong? Isn't the case about getting people to fork over money to the church?

That is the case. If money weren't involved, then there wouldn't be a case for fraud. What we don't know yet is the evidence, as this hasn't been released yet. Because this is a criminal case, there isn't much known about the specifics at this point. However, my understanding is that sufficient evidence had to be demonstrated in order for the Judge to issue the summons. This is why I don't think it can be a trial of religious beliefs being used to collect money, as those are protected from trial. To me, the only thing that makes sense would be that instead it is either about lying or misrepresenting beliefs in order to bring in money.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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This pretty much seems like putting religion on trial. All religions have wacky beliefs and involve money.

The Catholic church has a shitload of money, don't they believe that wine and bread actually turns into blood and flesh when they eat it?
 

MagickMan

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2008
7,460
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This pretty much seems like putting religion on trial. All religions have wacky beliefs and involve money.

The Catholic church has a shitload of money, don't they believe that wine and bread actually turns into blood and flesh when they eat it?

There's the whole virgin birth thing, too. Hell, every high school in America has at least 20-40 of those*, what's so special about that?











*If you ask the girls.