More Totalitarian Progressivism - Obama Directs FCC To Raise Taxes Bypassing Congress

[marincounty]

..but....but... obummer told me he wouldn't be raising my taxes. Was he lying yet again? Why of course he was. Of course leftist idiots will defend this end-run around congress to raise taxes, not realizing that at some point the tables will turn and some idiot with an R behind his name will use these same tactics.... then they'll whine about it.

Reagan called them fee increases, they're not tax increases.

The fees are to expand high speed internet to all schools, what a horrible idea.

I was watching Fox News earlier, they were crying about the Obama taxes to pay for this, how it was going to "slam" the middle class. We're talking about $5 a month people, is that really slamming the middle class? Even a bum can make more than $5 an hour pan handling.

 

[palehorse]

Back in the days when the USPS was actually turning a profit, was any of the money they collected ever taken and repurposed outside of the USPS itself?

I think it's reasonable to consider this a "tax" since it's being taken and repurposed for education, and not simply left within the FCC to cover FCC-specific expenditures.

 

[Zaap]

Lashing out is part of denial, no doubt. Several facts remain-

Congress did, in fact, authorize this when they delegated authority to the Executive branch.

Congress can't delegate it's authority to the executive branch. Not with constitutional legitimacy that is. (As I said, we're long past expecting that from this corrupt government.) It's amazing how you illustrate my point of not understanding separation of powers... without even realizing it.

This is incorrect, as mobile phone fees are not covered by the nondelegation doctrine.

A legit fee collected from cellphone customers would only relate to the use of cellphone service or bandwidth as benefits the cellphone user.

This isn't a 'fee'. It's a tax- it's money being collected from one service, in order to fund another entirely separate government program. There is no proper definition of that as a 'fee'- it's a tax.

I have no idea what either of those questions has to do with the topic at hand.

What you had no idea about, was that even though the Obama administration pulled similar tricks insisting a tax wasn't a tax, but a fee, the Supreme Court called them on it and said, "It's a tax."

 

[fskimospy]

Congress can't delegate it's authority to the executive branch. Not with constitutional legitimacy that is. (As I said, we're long past expecting that from this corrupt government.) It's amazing how you illustrate my point of not understanding separation of powers... without even realizing it.

This is so incredibly, obviously wrong. Nearly every law that Congress passes is a delegation of authority to the executive or judicial branch. I don't think you understand what the separation of powers is.

A legit fee collected from cellphone customers would only relate to the use of cellphone service or bandwidth as benefits the cellphone user.

This isn't a 'fee'. It's a tax- it's money being collected from one service, in order to fund another entirely separate government program. There is no proper definition of that as a 'fee'- it's a tax.

Irrelevant, as the ability to tax is also a power that can be delegated. The only powers that Congress cannot delegate under court precedent are those that are purely legislative in nature.

If you were trying to argue that this particular fee was outside the mandate of the FCC and the scope of powers delegated to it by Congress that's fine, but your idea that Congress cannot delegate these powers is just wrong. Why you would get that wrong and then go after everyone else about how little they apparently understand the Constitution is pretty ridiculous.

What you had no idea about, was that even though the Obama administration pulled similar tricks insisting a tax wasn't a tax, but a fee, the Supreme Court called them on it and said, "It's a tax."

The solicitor general explicitly advanced the argument that the individual mandate was a tax. So by "called them on it" you mean "agreed with what they said".

 

[cmdrdredd]

The whole argument about the individual mandate is the liberals pushing it through didn't want it labeled as a tax cause it essentially raises taxes on EVERYONE at all income levels. Everyone against it called it a "tax hike" then when the court called it a tax all the liberals said "yeah its a tax". They were and continue to be full of shit.

 

[PokerGuy]

Reagan called them fee increases, they're not tax increases.

Good thing that no-good Reagan guy is not in office or running for office! I don't care what politicians want to call them for political expedience, they are taxes.

The fees are to expand high speed internet to all schools, what a horrible idea.

Oh, think of the children! That's another dumb example of the end justifying the means. if they want to pay for high speed internet to all schools, wonderful, then fund it through the normal process. No need to do an end-run around congress to jack up taxes....errr..... "fees" to accomplish it.

We're talking about $5 a month people, is that really slamming the middle class? Even a bum can make more than $5 an hour pan handling.

Yes, it's only $5, and if that was the only tax or fee to be paid, that would not be much.... but it's not. The middle class is getting hammered by all sorts of fees and taxes, only some of which show up in the reports that talk about the level of taxation. You'll hear idiots say "Hey, they level of taxes paid is so low, it's at an all time low!", but of course they fail to include all the forms of taxes and fees into the equation.

Bottom line, yet another way to sock it to the tax paying responsible citizen, I'm sure obamaphone users and other leeches don't have to worry about this fee.

 

[Brainonska511]

Bottom line, yet another way to sock it to the tax paying responsible citizen, I'm sure obamaphone users and other leeches don't have to worry about this fee.

If people don't want to pay the fee, they can choose not to get a cellphone.

 

[fskimospy]

If people don't want to pay the fee, they can choose not to get a cellphone.

And as we know from lots of posts on here about poor people, a cell phone is not a requirement for daily life, it's a luxury.

 

[PokerGuy]

If people don't want to pay the fee, they can choose not to get a cellphone.

Sure thing, just like if the people don't want to pay the fee, they can choose not to have a house, and they can choose not to drive a car, and they can choose not to walk outside, and they can choose ...... That's plain stupid "logic", I can avoid income taxes if I just choose not to have an income. Clearly this is just a tax by another name.

 

[PokerGuy]

And as we know from lots of posts on here about poor people, a cell phone is not a requirement for daily life, it's a luxury.

It is indeed a luxury, not a necessity of life. That doesn't mean fees should just be tacked on as another means of raising money without calling it a tax.

 

[Brainonska511]

Sure thing, just like if the people don't want to pay the fee, they can choose not to have a house, and they can choose not to drive a car, and they can choose not to walk outside, and they can choose ...... That's plain stupid "logic", I can avoid income taxes if I just choose not to have an income. Clearly this is just a tax by another name.

Exactly. It's stupid logic. That was the point. Hobson's choice situations are not really choices. It's constantly used as a serious line of reasoning here in P&N. And the other examples are not that good. I'm pretty sure being able to live (buy food and have shelter) is far more important than owning a luxury good like a cellphone. And you can limit your taxes on those necessities by a) renting, b) living in a low tax area, c) making close to poverty wages, d) illegally skirting tax laws by working off the books.

Regardless, it's still not a tax, it is a fee. It appears to fall under the Universal Service fund, which is charged to telecoms. They are not required to pass their cost onto consumers (but many of them do). And a cell phone being a luxury good, it shouldn't matter that there are extra costs.

It is indeed a luxury, not a necessity of life. That doesn't mean fees should just be tacked on as another means of raising money without calling it a tax.

People don't want general taxes raised, then fees are the alternate solution to funding government programs people want.

 

[PokerGuy]

Regardless, it's still not a tax, it is a fee.

A tax by any other name is still a tax. Even the scotus used that logic when they decided that obummercare penalties were in fact taxes, regardless of what congress called them.

And a cell phone being a luxury good, it shouldn't matter that there are extra costs.

The same argument could be used for just about any good and service. That's why this kind of end run should not be used.

People don't want general taxes raised, then fees are the alternate solution to funding government programs people want.

These are in fact taxes. The only difference is that the politicians can continue to lie that they won't raise your taxes, and idiots here in P&N can continue to say things like "tell me what taxes obummer has raised, be specific!" in their foolish delusion that our taxes are not getting raised.

If people want services, they need to pay for them. If they don't want to pay for them, then no services. It's really that simple. Neither the left nor the right wants to accept that basic reality, they'd rather provide services people want while a) borrowing money to pay for them, or b) raising "fees" (ie hidden taxes) to pay for them.

 

[piasabird]

I think the FCC does not have the right to tax and it is unconstitutional for anyone but congress to make federal taxes. This is one reason I went to using a cell phone. There are so many taxes and misc changes involved in a home phone that it cost twice as much as a cell phone.

Why not put chains on us since we are all being turned into low-income slaves.

 

[piasabird]

O'Bamma is a white black slave owner and we are his slaves. It is time for a revolot!

 

[FerrelGeek]

Sadly, eskimospy is correct here. Congress has abdicated much of its responsibility to the bureaucracy. That's part of the reason your vote has no meaning. Because the people who make a lot of the rules aren't elected. Congress gave that power to unelected officials.

Will give credit where credit is due. He is correct

One branch of our government has determined that they no longer have the responsibility to legeslate or provide proper oversight.

This

If we were still operating like a Constitutional Republic, then congress has no such authority to abdicate its responsibilities. But of course, that ship sailed a long time ago and now the government behaves in many ways in a completely lawless manner.

And this Many of the things that the exec branch does are branded as 'fees' (or other verbiage) not necessarily 'taxes'. They were defined that way by congress so that they wouldn't be held responsible when our 'fees' et al are raised.

There is no real leadership in DC.

 

[monovillage]

I just find it hard to believe that when a spokesperson for the Democrats makes a claim that Congress has abdicated all it's power to set fees/or taxes, that people accept it as an honest claim instead of the Democrat talking point that it really is.

It's just another example of the Obama imperial presidency attempting to skirt the Constitution to implement laws that were never passed by Congress.

 

[Zaap]

This is so incredibly, obviously wrong. Nearly every law that Congress passes is a delegation of authority to the executive or judicial branch.

That makes no sense what-so-ever, but then again, this is typical from you.

I don't think you understand what the separation of powers is.

You clearly don't even understand the differences between the branches of government, let alone what separation of powers even IS.

No joke- when talking to a leftwinger about most anything political, one can actually expect a brick wall to mount better and more coherent arguments.

 

[fskimospy]

That makes no sense what-so-ever, but then again, this is typical from you.



You clearly don't even understand the differences between the branches of government, let alone what separation of powers even IS.

No joke- when talking to a leftwinger about most anything political, one can actually expect a brick wall to mount better and more coherent arguments.

^Typical liberal non-answer. Nothing ever from your type but airheaded platitudes, dumb one-liners, and regurgitated bumper sticker talking points. NEVER a shred of facts or actual knowledge of anything.

No wonder you're so obsessed with soaking someone else to pay for education. You clearly never received one. Or if someone tried to teach you anything or even how to learn, you clearly weren't bothering to pay attention.

But see, that's not my fault or anyone else's but your own. Pay for you own damn lack of education.

lol.

 

[BlueWolf47]

That makes no sense what-so-ever, but then again, this is typical from you.



You clearly don't even understand the differences between the branches of government, let alone what separation of powers even IS.

No joke- when talking to a leftwinger about most anything political, one can actually expect a brick wall to mount better and more coherent arguments.

Are you sure your not on drugs right now?

 

[Zaap]

^ Two dimbulb leftwingers proving my point without even being bright enough to realize it. I'm proven right every time the usual suspects open their uneducated yaps about anything.

Like I said, a brick wall will give you a better more coherent argument than a dumb as a box of rocks leftwinger. FACT.

 

[BlueWolf47]

^ Two dimbulb leftwingers proving my point without even being bright enough to realize it. I'm proven right every time the usual suspects open their uneducated yaps about anything.

Like I said, a brick wall will give you a better more coherent argument than a dumb as a box of rocks leftwinger. FACT.

How can we be bright enough to realize it if we are Dim Bulbs?

 

[Zaap]

Gee, it's like you almost figured out what the world dim means. LOL!

 

[BlueWolf47]

Gee, it's like you almost figured out what the world dim means. LOL!

I guess you enjoy repetition in your insults. I feel like you could try to be a little more creative.

Or you can keep calling us rocks, lightbulbs and bricks. Im sure these are all things your father used to beat you and your mom during his drunken stupors. The only thing that could explain your cognitive disconnect from reality is an underlying childhood trauma.