More talk of Steam "box" Dec. 8

[cmdrdredd]

And cost the consumer more which means mom & dad will buy the next Xbox instead. They'll get all the same games minus a couple that the kids might not even care about.

You can see the pattern. Even mentioning the fact that in 2 years it'll run new games worse than the newer box will turn the gaming public in general off right away.

That's the problem, when the PS2 was supported for so long people got spoiled. This gen was/is pretty bad too. People expect 5 years+ out of a system. Not 2. Valve won't change that mindset, but if Sony MS and Nintendo do something similar maybe. It's just that valve doesn't have the clout to change consumer habits that have been built up over the last decade.

To do the version 1, 2, 3 thing you are better off building a PC and swapping just the video card in 2 years. You'll be better off than anything valve could pack in their box.

 

[Kalmah]

I suspect Valve is going to have some kind of Direct X to OpenGL emulation layer on this thing. Heck, they could dedicate an entire cpu for it. Is it practical to expect them to port all dx games over?

 

[Grooveriding]

Think some may be coming at this the wrong way. Assuming because Steam is currently on PC that a Valve console will be expensive and as powerful as a PC is not on the mark imo.

I'd expect something with a small form factor, relatively weak hardware, built around the Steam platform the way a 360 or PS3 is around live/psn. Possibly modular with the ability to upgrade it. That would be good to differentiate, but at the same time it's a nightmare to do that with a console due to compatibility and consistency issues with performance if you diversify the installed hardware base for the system.

I'm expecting a true console. A set hardware set built with Steam as the OS and without the ability to set game settings. I'd expect every game on Steam console would have to be certified and locked into settings that played well on the hardware etc. A true console built around Steam. That would be successful and would open up a huge amount of content currently locked away from console gamers.

I don't see this being targeted at PC gamers trying to get them to downsize their gaming rigs.

 

[showb1z]

Your way off the point. I am saying with this box having changing specs year to year you would be stuck buying a new one every year to keep up. That would kill the market for it immediately. Dead. If you don't upgrade to the new box then your games run slower and look worse than the new one. Who wants that?? Again this is why consoles sell so well. The hardware is set and every game for the life of the console works the same each time on each system. No worry about lower fps or anything.

That is why this has no market. PC games demand upgrades periodically and you have to adjust settings to accommodate new tech in the games if you don't have a newer system. So if they wanna break into console market they need a set hardware standard which means they will have to stagnate PC gaming or they make it like a PC and have upgrades and in that case just build your own and it'll be faster anyway.

Yeah, I'm not convinced console gamers even care about that. If they truely did, they wouldn't be console gamers to begin with.
Right now they're fine having the same graphics for 5+ years, sub 720p resolutions, 30 fps caps, terrible textures. Compared to PC it's a joke, yet I don't see a mass call for a new xbox/ps.
So why would they need/want to upgrade every year then? If you automatically lower the settings, most of them probably won't even notice anyway. Their graphics don't get worse, they just stay the same. They only get worse compared to the "new steambox" which is just like how console vs pc works right now.
And the features.. I don't know, I don't see any console gamer crying cause they lack tesselation. Probably cause they've never even heard of it.

I'm doubtful about the success of this thing too, but the concept itself is not the problem I think.

 

[biostud]

I just tried to put together a cheap ITX based PC that could work as a "Valve Box", that would be fra more powerful than the PS3 or Xbox.

CPU: Intel Pentium G860 3.0GHz Dual-Core Processor ($67.55 @ NCIX US)
Motherboard: Foxconn H61S Mini ITX LGA1155 Motherboard ($49.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix sport 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3-1333 Memory ($16.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Hitachi 500GB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($49.99 @ NCIX US)
Video Card: XFX Radeon HD 7850 2GB Video Card ($169.99 @ NCIX US)
Case: Cooler Master Elite 120 Advanced (Black) Mini ITX Tower Case ($43.94 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: Antec Basiq 350W ATX12V Power Supply ($24.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Logitech f310 ~$25
Total: $448.44

 

[Nintendesert]

I just tried to put together a cheap ITX based PC that could work as a "Valve Box", that would be fra more powerful than the PS3 or Xbox.

CPU: Intel Pentium G860 3.0GHz Dual-Core Processor ($67.55 @ NCIX US)
Motherboard: Foxconn H61S Mini ITX LGA1155 Motherboard ($49.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix sport 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3-1333 Memory ($16.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Hitachi 500GB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($49.99 @ NCIX US)
Video Card: XFX Radeon HD 7850 2GB Video Card ($169.99 @ NCIX US)
Case: Cooler Master Elite 120 Advanced (Black) Mini ITX Tower Case ($43.94 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: Antec Basiq 350W ATX12V Power Supply ($24.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Logitech f310 ~$25
Total: $448.44

More powerful than the PS4 or Xbox720 or whatever comes next? That's what Valve is going against.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Think some may be coming at this the wrong way. Assuming because Steam is currently on PC that a Valve console will be expensive and as powerful as a PC is not on the mark imo.

I'd expect something with a small form factor, relatively weak hardware, built around the Steam platform the way a 360 or PS3 is around live/psn. Possibly modular with the ability to upgrade it. That would be good to differentiate, but at the same time it's a nightmare to do that with a console due to compatibility and consistency issues with performance if you diversify the installed hardware base for the system.

I'm expecting a true console. A set hardware set built with Steam as the OS and without the ability to set game settings. I'd expect every game on Steam console would have to be certified and locked into settings that played well on the hardware etc. A true console built around Steam. That would be successful and would open up a huge amount of content currently locked away from console gamers.

I don't see this being targeted at PC gamers trying to get them to downsize their gaming rigs.

You see though that when steam is pretty much the standard for PC games, you will stagnate any progress on making games look better when you try to use weaker hardware. It will end up with a lot of games made for those specs and now high end GPUs and fast quad core CPUs. We will end up with fewer games that push the current tech than we have now.

 

[EDUSAN]

thats why the upgradable console looks so cool in theory

valve pushes the devs to make the game run FINE in his console, but shouldnt force them to make the game visual quality to match the hardware, only to run it at a 60 fps frame, even at the loss of quality

I would buy a console that would let me be updated to play the latest games at the best graphics while not having too much hassle to do it and being fairly cheap while the other consoles stagnate in time

but i just upgraded my pc so im not buying any console anytime soon, but as i skipped ps3/360 generation i hate to see the exclusive games i missed (RDR, gears of war, halo, uncharted, metal gear solid, to name a few). Maybe with this console it will fix that

 

[mizzou]

Windows 8 is supposedly "app friendly"? Sort of like Android App / Applie IOS App market....

I think Valve/Steam has a right to fear for their future. They've built a respectable and solid foundation as an online digital distributor and they don't want any further chinks in their armor.

One way to solidify their presence in the distribution network is to kick Windows 8 to the curb and go indie.

Here's the problem....a GIGANTIC portion of users are invested heavily in Windows 7. PC Games run on Windows 7. This by proxy means these games use Direct-X, a Microsoft based API.

You say you don't want Microsoft? Then you don't get their OS and you don't get their API. If you don't get those, well then you don't get anything else that is tailored to those systems.

There you go, you just basically alienated EVERYONE in the market.

Steam/Valve would need to start from scratch....they would need to basically start software development and hardware adoption at square one. Yeah, you can build a Linux/OpenGL gaming box....but now you gotta have games built for it.

Want a positive? Any new game developed for that box which isn't developed with the idea of being crossplatformed (back in the day games could be selected OPENGL/Direct3d graphics), pretty much everything will be an exclusive to the system.

Half life 3, etc. etc., could all be steam box exclusives. It would be a gargantuan gamble, but it would be a carrot needed on that stick. I think if Gabe can attract indie developers and also attract a couple exclusives, they got themselves a poisoned dagger.

This would change PC gaming forever though, totally deform the landscape we are so familiar with.

I don't see how it would work, but I would love to see someone try and I would put my $$$$ down just to see what happens.



current peak
Concurrent Steam Users: 4,962,381 5,960,113

Steam has the user base to try something different...

 

[M0oG0oGaiPan]

I might buy a device if it came with a controller or two and it was small enough to take on short trips. plug it in to your hotel tv and login to your steam account. That's one of the perks of the onlive system although I have little trust in that company at this point.

 

[0___________0]

Well, game support is/will be not that bad. Unreal is compatible with Llinux, Crytech too, Unity and Source officially support Linux... Four major engines.

UE3 and CE3 aren't "compatible" with Linux, you have to use Wine, with the exception of UE3's flash based games. I seriously doubt devs are going to use UE2 or the original UE just for the Steam box. None of the Cryengines or Dunia derivatives can build native Linux games either. Wine introduces performance hits and tons of bugs, not to mention few games are "plug and play" with it, none of the people who buy this will be able to get the games to work.

Unity is hardly a major engine as well, I'm not aware of any must have games that use it.

 

[Nintendesert]

thats why the upgradable console looks so cool in theory

valve pushes the devs to make the game run FINE in his console, but shouldnt force them to make the game visual quality to match the hardware, only to run it at a 60 fps frame, even at the loss of quality

I would buy a console that would let me be updated to play the latest games at the best graphics while not having too much hassle to do it and being fairly cheap while the other consoles stagnate in time

but i just upgraded my pc so im not buying any console anytime soon, but as i skipped ps3/360 generation i hate to see the exclusive games i missed (RDR, gears of war, halo, uncharted, metal gear solid, to name a few). Maybe with this console it will fix that

The upgrade-ability is what kills this. Standarization is the biggest thing consoles have over PC's.

 

[EDUSAN]

the way i see it its not really that far away from standarization.

You wont be able to get any upgrade part to the valve-console. Valve will test and make the necessary performance tweaks to make the best out of the part they add to its console, and they will only sell THAT upgrade as a whole.

Valvebox v1= 3ghz, 4gb ram, 500gb HD, nvidia 1000 video (invented stuff)
Valvebox v2= 3,5ghz, 8gb ram, 750gb HD, Nvidia 1900 video

buyers would just buy the whole pack, not individual upgrades.
Imagine the developers, they wont need to test their games in every graphic card released, they will only need to test the game in valvebox 1, valvebox 2, valvebox 3.

Im not saying its a great idea or whatever, but TO ME, it looks like it could work...

 

[Sable]

Oh.

http://www.shacknews.com/article/77280/valves-steam-box-revealed-as-xi3-piston

Starting at around $1,000, the X7A packs a Quad-Core processor with 384-core integrated graphics, which I'd haphazardly guess is AMD's A10 series. It boasts 4GB or 8GB of RAM, oodles of USB ports, and four eSATAp ports for extra external storage. Now, Piston's specs and price won't necessarily line up, but this gives a fair idea of what to expect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=isfqiYG7wiI#at=71

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

That price... There's just no way.

 

[Red Storm]

I'm just gonna wait until we have official word from Valve about this thing.

 

[darkewaffle]

Kind of neat looking but speculated as an A10 for $1k? That's way too much to get so little. Though if they were to make it A10 based and include a passive 6670 or whatever it is that you can 'crossfire' with it, that could be an interesting value proposition.

Still, the thing wont sell unless they can get it down to about $500-$700 at least. Even then I think the only reason you saw numbers like that for the PS3 was because the PS2 was so successful, I'm not sure any of the current consoles could justify a price like that, much less a new entrant.

 

[M0oG0oGaiPan]

retail price is $1000 but if you wait for the summer sale it'll be $250.

 

[Red Storm]

retail price is $1000 but if you wait for the summer sale it'll be $250.

 

[Elixer]

They would need a huge subsidy to make this work out well, and I don't think valve will go at this alone. I bet ubuntu will throw some cash in as well.

They will be up against 720 and whatever sony will call their next unit.
That means, to make it future proof, you would need at least a tri/quad core CPU, and graphics that have at least openGL 4 capabilities, and at least 8GB RAM.
Now, add in someway to have storage (SSD?), unless they stream the game.
Add in USB 2 & 3 ports, hdmi/displayport out, and possibly a way to pass through a signal to multiple display units.
This will cost at least $1000, and they would need to get very good deals from the CPU & GPU makers.
If valve throws in $250, and Ubuntu throws in $250, MSRP would be $500, like the playstation was.

If they do a DX ->openGL wrapper, they would need a faster CPU & GPU as well.

While it would be a longshot, I do think it would be worth it, if it is a open platform. If not, then it is pretty much dead.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Even if it's not used for what they intended, I can see lots of other uses if the price is right.

 

[darkewaffle]

whatever sony will call their next unit

Is there really any question about that?

 

[mizzou]

Even if it's not used for what they intended, I can see lots of other uses if the price is right.

that was sort of the appeal of the PS3, and it worked well for them. I basically use mine as a home theatre box

 

[biostud]

Why not an intel NUC mboard with an 90-degree PCIe x16 slot, slab it together with videocard and put it in a box.

 

[Doppel]

As described in this thread the steam of has no market. I fail to see how it is different from a PC.

It is a non-competitively priced console with a very short lifespan for those looking to play the newest titles. It is no different than if MS came out with a backward compatible successor to the Xbox every 3 years except charge more for it.