More talk of Steam "box" Dec. 8

[VulgarDisplay]

http://www.joystiq.com/2012/12/08/valves-gabe-newell-talks-turnkey-living-room-hardware/

This could present some issues for Microsoft and Sony if you ask me. Valve already has the digital distribution ability, and they can afford to sell their hardware at a loss and make money on software.

I could see them also having a faster release cycle than Microsoft and Sony. Releasing hardware every couple of years or less, and still have backwards compatibility for their older boxes at lower settings is also a major advantage over the console makers. If this model gets adopted we could see a major increase in the speeds developers adopt features and IQ improvements.

I could see them releasing a $600-800 box that sits under the TV that can do double duty as a gaming PC and HTPC. Making money off content could allow them to sell the hardware at a slight loss, and give people a pretty impressive build for the money. Using mid range GPU's and a decent quad core they could easily sell a build that cost around $1000 total to build and still turn a huge profit on software. They could work out distibution deals for TV and movies as well making their system even more attractive to consumers.

This could be awesome.

 

[Plimogz]

I should think that such a Valve system would be running some form of Linux and spearheading Steam on Linux adoption. While simultaneously helping to encourage better Linux game drivers from the GPU makers (or at least from whichever gets the contract from Valve for the box's graphics silicon)

Although on the downside, I guess that this move would remove compatibility with much of Steam's current catalog of DirectX games.

I certainly wish Valve luck with the endeavor and hope that it might be as a bold a move as I imagine it could be.

 

[gladiatorua]

Really depends on how Valve approaches the whole console business. If they completely lock the system, I doubt it will have more than a mild success.
On the other hand, if Valve starts certifying hardware, drivers and certain software to create tight reliable ecosystem with more hardware vendors, I can see Gabecube as something big.

 

[biostud]

Also the "Big Picture" function in steam points towards a move towards steambox + TV.

 

[KentState]

Do you really think they can see enough $600-800 machines that will have the same cross platform games as their $300 counterparts? Top it off, you expect people to keep plunking down that much money every few years to be able to play the next thing?

 

[Martimus]

I would expect them to make something in the $300 - $400 range, using an APU and custom components. It would be difficult to compete otherwise. I know my daughters old Llano is able to play a lot of games at relatively high settings, so the newer ones are probably even more powerful.

 

[Red Storm]

The only way this ultimately becomes a success is if they convince devs to make games for Linux. This is a multi step process that won't happen overnight, and one of those steps is having a good distribution/advertisement/DRM platform for Linux, and Steam can be just that. I really do hope it's a success, games are the only thing that have me tied to Windows and paying for OSes.

Do you really think they can see enough $600-800 machines that will have the same cross platform games as their $300 counterparts? Top it off, you expect people to keep plunking down that much money every few years to be able to play the next thing?

PS3 didn't launch at $300.

 

[ImpulsE69]

This also only really works if you are going forward with the following 2 assumptions:

1. Games will continue to stagnate (hardware wise) due to cross platform porting
2. Low resource indie games

Will be interesting to see where they are going with this, but I don't see it as much of a positive in the grand scheme of things, except for the competition side, and possibility of more linux platform games.

Someone who just purchased a 300-400 system from Steam and finds they can't play the ultra new AAA game on ultra settings...probably isn't going to be happy, but the "console" gamer would be fine with it.

 

[KentState]

PS3 didn't launch at $300.

How well did it sell before the price drops?

 

[mmntech]

I should think that such a Valve system would be running some form of Linux and spearheading Steam on Linux adoption. While simultaneously helping to encourage better Linux game drivers from the GPU makers (or at least from whichever gets the contract from Valve for the box's graphics silicon)

Gabe Newell has been pretty outspoken about his disdain for Windows 8, so this is pretty much a given.

Really depends on how Valve approaches the whole console business. If they completely lock the system, I doubt it will have more than a mild success.
On the other hand, if Valve starts certifying hardware, drivers and certain software to create tight reliable ecosystem with more hardware vendors, I can see Gabecube as something big.

Much like AMD did with their VISION platform. Not that it's been a runaway success.

Microsoft proved that you can do an x86 console right. Though I wonder if there's any room left in the market for a fourth console. Especially given that Steam isn't a widely known and established brand outside one niche market. All signs seem to point towards it being a console.

 

[Lonyo]

If it would present a problem for anything, it would be conventional PC gaming, since PC devs would develop for restrictive hardware of the Steam box rather than the full potential of other PC hardware.

Plus the idea of a gaming box is stupid, Sony and Microsoft think so, which is why their current consoles already have at least some support for non-gaming things, and there's no reason to believe the future consoles won't go further in that direction. A gaming box from Valve would be competing with Nintendo on graphics/etc quality, PCs on price, and Nintendo on functionality, since it would be more expensive than consoles, have worse graphics, and less functionality than next gen MS/Sony consoles.

And a lack of initial game dev support. And it would also be competing with all the existing platforms, without offering much incentive to develop for it.

 

[Red Storm]

How well did it sell before the price drops?

Point is the next gen consoles are not going to launch at $300.

 

[KentState]

Point is the next gen consoles are not going to launch at $300.

They won't launch at 600-800 either and last only for a couple years. Right now $400 is probably the ceiling for any new system.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

They won't launch at 600-800 either and last only for a couple years. Right now $400 is probably the ceiling for any new system.

The thing is, in the PC environment you just turn down settings to keep it playable. So you buy new hardware to keep things maxed or you just keep your old system and lower settings.

I think Valve's implementation of AMD driver updates is another example of the way they are moving. They will take the guess work out of keeping a gaming PC running through steam. Also, as stated, if they put out an $400-600 PC (sold at a loss) with steam integrated in some manner they could fairly easily put current midrange cards in the system and have better graphics than the upcoming xbox and PS4 based on rumors.

If they make things easy enough for consumers they could greatly increase the amount of PC gamers and thus their Steam revenue which is how they get their money back on the hardware and more.

 

[KentState]

The thing is, in the PC environment you just turn down settings to keep it playable. So you buy new hardware to keep things maxed or you just keep your old system and lower settings.

I think Valve's implementation of AMD driver updates is another example of the way they are moving. They will take the guess work out of keeping a gaming PC running through steam. Also, as stated, if they put out an $400-600 PC (sold at a loss) with steam integrated in some manner they could fairly easily put current midrange cards in the system and have better graphics than the upcoming xbox and PS4 based on rumors.

If they make things easy enough for consumers they could greatly increase the amount of PC gamers and thus their Steam revenue which is how they get their money back on the hardware and more.

Lot of ifs and IMO to make a dent in the console market by taking a more expensive approach. This solution doesn't play to the casual gamers and is probably too under powered for the hardcore crowd. Also, need to see someone like EA buying into this sells a lot of games that may not be available. How does a $400-600 machine compete if it doesn't offer the latest CoD, Madden or whatever IP that's sold only through Origin or the other consoles. There really has to be some major healing going on in that relationship.

Look, I love pc gaming and buy a lot through Steam, I just question the feasability of an expensive box to sit in the living room when the others are throwing everything and the kitchen sink in.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

Lot of ifs and IMO to make a dent in the console market by taking a more expensive approach. This solution doesn't play to the casual gamers and is probably too under powered for the hardcore crowd. Also, need to see someone like EA buying into this sells a lot of games that may not be available. How does a $400-600 machine compete if it doesn't offer the latest CoD, Madden or whatever IP that's sold only through Origin or the other consoles. There really has to be some major healing going on in that relationship.

Look, I love pc gaming and buy a lot through Steam, I just question the feasability of an expensive box to sit in the living room when the others are throwing everything and the kitchen sink in.

You've got to remember they are buying a pre-built PC that can game and do HTPC that comes with steam installed. Not a console that locks you out of "exclusive" games. A buyer would be able to install origin as well. I think that the major hurdle to Valve's plans is to just change people's perception of PC gaming being difficult and expensive. Providing good hardware that they can provide tech support for and an Xbox Live like ecosystem in steam for people to use to get their games will go a long way toward changing that perception.

If they provide a mid range gaming PC in a form factor that can fit in the living room that comes with a controller and advertise it as something that just works, and outperforms consoles they have a winner.

 

[Martimus]

You've got to remember they are buying a pre-built PC that can game and do HTPC that comes with steam installed. Not a console that locks you out of "exclusive" games. A buyer would be able to install origin as well. I think that the major hurdle to Valve's plans is to just change people's perception of PC gaming being difficult and expensive. Providing good hardware that they can provide tech support for and an Xbox Live like ecosystem in steam for people to use to get their games will go a long way toward changing that perception.

If they provide a mid range gaming PC in a form factor that can fit in the living room that comes with a controller and advertise it as something that just works, and outperforms consoles they have a winner.

The problem here is that Valve doesn't provide adequate tech support for their current products. I wouldn't expect them to start with this new product.

I will wholeheartedly agree with you that the purpose is to make PC gaming simpler, and not really to get into the Console market.

 

[dagamer34]

Unless the selection of games on Steam for Linux is better than Steam for Mac, this idea is DOA. Also, what is the size of the market Gabe is trying to address? Hardcore gamers would rather build their own PCs with $400+ GPUs, and total casual gamers are happy with Facebook and iOS games, and the average gamer is perfectly fine buying a $300 console w/ $60 games that are 100% guaranteed to work. Microsoft already tried to get a PC in the living room with Media Center, it failed spectacularly for a very simple reason, no one wants a PC in their living room. It's a pain in the ass (and I say that having one).

 

[mmntech]

Unless the selection of games on Steam for Linux is better than Steam for Mac, this idea is DOA. Also, what is the size of the market Gabe is trying to address? Hardcore gamers would rather build their own PCs with $400+ GPUs, and total casual gamers are happy with Facebook and iOS games, and the average gamer is perfectly fine buying a $300 console w/ $60 games that are 100% guaranteed to work. Microsoft already tried to get a PC in the living room with Media Center, it failed spectacularly for a very simple reason, no one wants a PC in their living room. It's a pain in the ass (and I say that having one).

The other problem with HTPCs is you pretty much need Windows or OS X to play any sort of commercial downloadable or streaming video. Linux doesn't support DRM for those formats. Yes, I own one, but it's mostly for music and playing back rips of movies I own on DVD.

Valve also isn't the first company to attempt to simplify PC gaming. The infamous Phantom comes to mind. If Valve is trying to make a console that can play existing games, I think it's a mistake. The market is already overcrowded. Three consoles is the maximum it's willing to support. It's always been like that.

Valve is better off selling their own line of pre-built gaming PCs like Alienware does. If they can offer affordable ones, people will buy them. Just don't expect them to fly off the shelves. PC gaming has always been a niche market. As dagamer34 said, most gamers are quite content with a system that just works. They don't care about hardware or modding. They don't want to fiddle with drivers. They just want something reasonably cheap that's going to last them five years.

 

[KentState]

You've got to remember they are buying a pre-built PC that can game and do HTPC that comes with steam installed. Not a console that locks you out of "exclusive" games. A buyer would be able to install origin as well. I think that the major hurdle to Valve's plans is to just change people's perception of PC gaming being difficult and expensive. Providing good hardware that they can provide tech support for and an Xbox Live like ecosystem in steam for people to use to get their games will go a long way toward changing that perception.

If they provide a mid range gaming PC in a form factor that can fit in the living room that comes with a controller and advertise it as something that just works, and outperforms consoles they have a winner.

How can this change the perception if it cost $800, you have to manually install Origin and only lasts a few years? If it was this simple, MS would have done this with the 360 and the 720 (or whatever it's called). I just don't see casual gamers getting behind this which is the target audience.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

The problem here is that Valve doesn't provide adequate tech support for their current products. I wouldn't expect them to start with this new product.

I will wholeheartedly agree with you that the purpose is to make PC gaming simpler, and not really to get into the Console market.

Why would valve support games they did not create? If this hardware had their name on it they would support it.

How can this change the perception if it cost $800, you have to manually install Origin and only lasts a few years? If it was this simple, MS would have done this with the 360 and the 720 (or whatever it's called). I just don't see casual gamers getting behind this which is the target audience.

If they sell it at a loss to make money on software this $600-800 PC would have a GPU and CPU capable of blowing the next gen consoles away in terms of image quality and features. Stop thinking about Valve's proposed gaming PC like a console from Microsoft or Sony. They are talking about a PC that's designed to run in the living room and play nice with common living room appliances.

No one bats an eyelash when a computer company like Dell or Apple updates their specs on a yearly basis. What's the difference if Valve does the same thing with their hardware? You either buy the new stuff or don't. Your dated Valve computer will still be able to play the games albeit at lower IQ settings. Added bonus for backwards compatibility with the games you buy for your Valve box.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Do you really think they can see enough $600-800 machines that will have the same cross platform games as their $300 counterparts? Top it off, you expect people to keep plunking down that much money every few years to be able to play the next thing?

That's not even the biggest problem I see from the software end. Think about how many people know what an XBox or Playstation is or know what Nintendo is. Those are names that mean something to the gaming public. These are the systems that will get every game that also comes to PC (steam box). There might be an exception here or there but mostly, the steambox will get ports. Ports that might suck and have bugs.

The Steambox will have nearly zero exclusives. What exclusives it may have will be overshadowed by Halo, Forza, Gran Turismo, Uncharted, Ratchet & Clank, Zelda, Mario, God of War etc. Games that are exclusive to their respective platform and get pretty big sales numbers.

Some games like Madden never come to the PC anymore and I doubt EA will give Steam the rights to it if they decide to make it.

No one bats an eyelash when a computer company like Dell or Apple updates their specs on a yearly basis. What's the difference if Valve does the same thing with their hardware? You either buy the new stuff or don't. Your dated Valve computer will still be able to play the games albeit at lower IQ settings. Added bonus for backwards compatibility with the games you buy for your Valve box.

When I bought an Xbox 360 back at release and put Halo 4 in that console. I am not having to run at lower graphics settings than someone who bought one a year later or just last week. When I buy an Xbox360 game it works, same for my PS3. If my friend has the same game it works, plays, and looks exactly the same. There is no "oh well, you have this video card so you need to turn shadows down to low". None of that, put in disk...press start...play. This cannot be avoided with PC unless you want your HD 7970 X-Fire and GTX 670 SLI to be worthless because everyone has to conform to the specs of Valve's piece of crap from 2 years ago.

That's the difference there.


The biggest problem with this will be selling the idea to people that this isn't just another PC (in fact it is just another PC).

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

I can't help but think this may be related:
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-3118_7...erience-aims-to-streamline-pc-gaming-updated/
Even the color scheme and layout is Steam-ish, and it takes care of the performance issue across hardware tiers/gens.

 

[TehMac]

Have any of you guys heard of Ouya?

 

[cmdrdredd]

I can't help but think this may be related:
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-3118_7...erience-aims-to-streamline-pc-gaming-updated/
Even the color scheme and layout is Steam-ish, and it takes care of the performance issue across hardware tiers/gens.

Have you used that software? When you find your optimal settings, it tells you settings that may run like crap. It overestimates Nvidia's own GPUs to make you choose a quality level that can ruin the game experience. I tried it in a friend's PC which is running a GTX 275. It told him to set Battlefield 3 on high. Ever try playing those settings on a GTX 275?