More "Stay the course"

[Pens1566]

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Does this qualify as the captain going down with the ship?? What exactly is our mission again?

No WMDs in Iraq : check
Saddam removed from power : check
Democratically elected govt. : check

Looks like mission already accomplished George!

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Pens1566
Text


Does this qualify as the captain going down with the ship?? What exactly is our mission again?

No WMDs in Iraq : check
Saddam removed from power : check
Democratically elected govt. : check

Looks like mission already accomplished George!

If we left now; would the government be able to stand on it's own.

when you can say yes - then we get out. - sound like that is what he is stating.

 

[Conky]

Originally posted by: Pens1566
Text


Does this qualify as the captain going down with the ship?? What exactly is our mission again?

No WMDs in Iraq : check
Saddam removed from power : check
Democratically elected govt. : check

Looks like mission already accomplished George!

I thought the mission was to keep the fighting and attacks out of the USA.

 

[lozina]

if the government can't stand on its own then it simply wasn't meant to be.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
If we left now; would the government be able to stand on it's own.

when you can say yes - then we get out. - sound like that is what he is stating.

Why does the government have to be able to stand on its own for us to have won the war? And what is the next goal? Every year the goal changes. When/how will we say we are done? Why can't we have concrete milestones? Saying a government can stand on its own is a wonderful thing, but it is impossible to measure (is any government ever truely 100% stable?). Thus, we can't use that as a milestone.

 

[Pens1566]

Great idea. Except it will never stand on its own unless it ends up with someone like Saddam in charge keeping the other 2 groups in line with fear and violence. 51st state, meet Iraq.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
If we left now; would the government be able to stand on it's own.

when you can say yes - then we get out. - sound like that is what he is stating.

Why does the government have to be able to stand on its own for us to have won the war? And what is the next goal? Every year the goal changes. When/how will we say we are done? Why can't we have concrete milestones? Saying a government can stand on its own is a wonderful thing, but it is impossible to measure (is any government ever truely 100% stable?). Thus, we can't use that as a milestone.

Mission Creep - it's turned into a presentation of Metrics.
Useless 'Pie-Charts' and 'Bar-Graphs', like an incompetent CEO likes to see in a boardroom presentation.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
If we left now; would the government be able to stand on it's own.

when you can say yes - then we get out. - sound like that is what he is stating.

Why does the government have to be able to stand on its own for us to have won the war? And what is the next goal? Every year the goal changes. When/how will we say we are done? Why can't we have concrete milestones? Saying a government can stand on its own is a wonderful thing, but it is impossible to measure (is any government ever truely 100% stable?). Thus, we can't use that as a milestone.

Mission Creep - it's turned into a presentation of Metrics.
Useless 'Pie-Charts' and 'Bar-Graphs', like an incompetent CEO likes to see in a boardroom presentation.

True

As much as I feel that it could bite us down the road; we need to let the civil war over there happen. when it was just the government against terror, I would support it. However, the coutnry itself is now being torn apart.

Anything less(by continue to have troops on the ground) is just papering over the fact that we are supporting the same thing that Saddam did. Using force to prevent the civl war that was bubbling in the pressure cooker.

We have just opened the lid so all can see what is inside.

 

[Pens1566]

I'm all for letting the civil war happen. WITHOUT our troops being fired on from both sides.


Another quote from the same press conference:

"No question it's tough, no question about it," Bush said at a news conference with Estonian President Toomas Hendrik Ilves. "There's a lot of sectarian violence taking place, fomented in my opinion because of these attacks by al-Qaeda, causing people to seek reprisal."

Text

Al Qaeda plot. Right.

 

[Conky]

Originally posted by: Pens1566
I'm all for letting the civil war happen. WITHOUT our troops being fired on from both sides.


Another quote from the same press conference:

"No question it's tough, no question about it," Bush said at a news conference with Estonian President Toomas Hendrik Ilves. "There's a lot of sectarian violence taking place, fomented in my opinion because of these attacks by al-Qaeda, causing people to seek reprisal."

Text

Al Qaeda plot. Right.

So, Al Queda has no plans at all?

Bush may be wrong a lot but he isn't wrong on everything. Al queda is obviously trying to cause as much trouble and anguish as possible by playing both ends against the middle over there.

I think we should leave and let the Iraqi's duke it out amongst theirselves but then Iran would probably just take over anyway. There is no good answer to this mess.

 

[Pens1566]

Its widely accepted that almost all of the violence in Iraq at this point is home grown. Something like 4% are "foreign fighters". Use the google if you must. This is Iraqis killing Iraqis.

 

[Conky]

Originally posted by: Pens1566
Its widely accepted that almost all of the violence in Iraq at this point is home grown. Something like 4% are "foreign fighters". Use the google if you must. This is Iraqis killing Iraqis.

But somebody is encouraging these Iraqi people to kill other Iraqi's and to what end?

 

[CaptnKirk]

Originally posted by: Beachboy

Originally posted by: Pens1566
I'm all for letting the civil war happen. WITHOUT our troops being fired on from both sides.


Another quote from the same press conference:

"No question it's tough, no question about it," Bush said at a news conference with Estonian President Toomas Hendrik Ilves. "There's a lot of sectarian violence taking place, fomented in my opinion because of these attacks by al-Qaeda, causing people to seek reprisal."

Text

Al Qaeda plot. Right.

So, Al Queda has no plans at all?

Bush may be wrong a lot but he isn't wrong on everything. Al queda is obviously trying to cause as much trouble and anguish as possible by playing both ends against the middle over there.

I think we should leave and let the Iraqi's duke it out amongst theirselves but then Iran would probably just take over anyway. There is no good answer to this mess.

Is this 'Al queda' even the same 'Al queda' that was responsible for 9-11 and was embedded in Afghanisatn?
Or is it a label of 'Al queda-in-Iraq' that we have given them, and they have willingly accepted to use as a recruting tool
for the purpose of uniting all disent in the area against the American led agression that they are surrounded with?

The term 'Al queda' means nothing more than 'Group, Association, or Gathering of people',
our translators like to use the term 'Cell' because it assigns them a Cult Status when viewed from our linguistic definition.

Kinda like GOP meaning 'All Republicans', or Cheese-Heads defining Packers Fans - it's symantic definition.

Just like 30+ years ago in 'Nam - they want us out, so they can handle their own double-crossers in their way, bloody as it will be.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Pens1566
Text


Does this qualify as the captain going down with the ship?? What exactly is our mission again?

No WMDs in Iraq : check
Saddam removed from power : check
Democratically elected govt. : check

Looks like mission already accomplished George!

Are we going to cut and run or stay the course?

I love how the gop PR machine turns language into tools of their, well, propaganda for a lack of better explanation. The fact that this phrase made it onto national tv is simply astounding - it's nothing better than a political version of that old joke "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?".

 

[Pens1566]

Originally posted by: Beachboy

Originally posted by: Pens1566
Its widely accepted that almost all of the violence in Iraq at this point is home grown. Something like 4% are "foreign fighters". Use the google if you must. This is Iraqis killing Iraqis.

But somebody is encouraging these Iraqi people to kill other Iraqi's and to what end?

There is no encoouragement needed. Just hundreds of years of repressed mutual hatred.

 

[Lemon law]

For the Iraqi people it now becomes the question---should I stand idly by waiting for the opposite sect to kill me?---or should I kill them before they kill me?

When their own government can't protect them---with the police being the death squads in reality--and the US army does not bother to protect anyone either---then it becomes the job of local strongmen to say join me and I will protect you---as we see fuedalism in action---forming up before our very eyes.

Put yourself in their place---what would you do when you see many of your neighbors die by precisely that form of violence?

GWB&co.had this Mr. patato head strategy for Iraq---remove the head and graft a US friendly head on the body of Iraqi government---and then discovered the whole government went with Saddam. And was unable to cope with that reality---four years ago---4 minutes ago---and I see little to see he is getting real now. GWB has a goal with no strategy to reach it.---and now looks to Daddy's buddies to bail him out of the black hole he has stuck us in..