More states may target birthright citizenship..aka..Anchor babies

[ConstipatedVigilante]

Newcomers always have higher birthrates until they "settle in". Early last century people said same thing about that "troublesome infestation" of all these Catholic Irish "breeders" all over the ghettos making trouble and not using birth control.

Now an Irishman is known as first on the moon and one of our best Presidents.

Same folks bitching about the same lame xenophobia regardless of how this whole country of immigrants disproves it over and over, century after century.

Yes, but the Irish emigrated legally. The illegals (duh) are not.

 

[Infohawk]

Newcomers always have higher birthrates until they "settle in". Early last century people said same thing about that "troublesome infestation" of all these Catholic Irish "breeders" all over the ghettos making trouble and not using birth control.

Now an Irishman is known as first on the moon and one of our best Presidents.

I like that spin. You Irish? The Irish did breed like crazy. For such a small country there's a huge number of Irish-Americans. Also, as far as I know there weren't a lot of Irish illegals.

 

[IGBT]

Yes, but the Irish emigrated legally. The illegals (duh) are not.

that was also the 1700-1800 era of the "unsettled continent" . The US is now the "settled continent" of 330+ million in an era of rapidly diminishing resources i.e. water, and can no longer afford to pretend it's the "unsettled continent" and expect the tax payer to endlessly pay for the endless supply of bottom feeders.

 

[Steeplerot]

I like that spin. You Irish? The Irish did breed like crazy. For such a small country there's a huge number of Irish-Americans. Also, as far as I know there weren't a lot of Irish illegals.

Wop was a general term for migrants from Europe. We associate it as a Italian/Sicilian slur as they were accepted a bit more recently. (Italians still have quite a few stereotypes even today as the Irish -you do not hear many stereotypes of German immigrants anymore as that was LONG ago, but they along with many others caught this same shit also as Mexicans (Russians immigrants were treated unwelcome in the teens-20s in USA also -a lot were deported so you don't hear much of that either)

You guys asking me for about the 5th time now which race I am because I write of the plight of one people or another is silly. But if it makes you all feel better I am whatever race I feel people are going out of their way to shit on unnecessarily. Thank you.

 

[Zebo]

Newcomers always have higher birthrates until they "settle in". Early last century people said same thing about that "troublesome infestation" of all these Catholic Irish "breeders" all over the ghettos making trouble and not using birth control.

Now an Irishman is known as first on the moon and one of our best Presidents.

Same type folks bitching about the same lame xenophobia regardless of how this whole country of immigrants disproves the slander over and over, century after century, wave after wave of broke people looking to work and a new life easily shit upon by the spoiled former immigrants decendents who were lucky enough to have fallen out of a vagina on a arbitrary piece of land before they did. It gets old and is unamerican.

Not true. With record UE it's questionable if we should even have immigration at all currently. US has frozen immigration before in times of hardship not to mention illegals. It's a serious problem. The one two punch of pro-globalization policies which shift jobs outside USA and importing labor for jobs which can't be exported has destroyed working class wages in this country.

google Barbara Jordan and immigration. She did extensive studies on the effects.

Now I'm not saying some are not xenophobic but it;s largely a canard when there are economic reasons for limiting immigration. Chamber of Commerce loves it but most working class does not.

 

[Zebo]

that was also the 1700-1800 era of the "unsettled continent" . The US is now the "settled continent" of 330+ million in an era of rapidly diminishing resources i.e. water, and can no longer afford to pretend it's the "unsettled continent" and expect the tax payer to endlessly pay for the endless supply of bottom feeders.

Tax payers are not. We borrowed over 3 trillion last year between the Fed and states and munis to pay for largess & social welfare. That won't be able to continue forever. Interesting times ahead.

 

[yllus]

The story I heard was that this is really big with wealthy Chinese couples. They fly out, have the baby, then fly back to China. The thought is that when their child turns 18, they'll have better educational and career opportunities as an American citizen (or at least it would be an option). It has nothing to with the parents wanting to move here.

That makes it sound like the law works in the U.S.'s favour. Rich foreigners wanting to send their children to study, work and make connections in America = win-win.

 

[wetech]

What kind of bizarro logic is that?

Lets say being here illegally makes you not subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S. Okay. Now what does this have to do with the child? The parents are here illegally, not the child. Therefore, the parents are not subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S. Not the child. If illegal=not under jurisdiction, then you would need to show that the child is here illegally in order to show that its not under U.S. jurisdiction. But if the child is born in the U.S., the child is not here illegally, and therefore under U.S. jurisdiction.

But that is assuming illegals are not subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S.

Illegals are subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S. Or can we not try and and punish illegals under U.S. law because they are outside of our jurisdiction? They are free to commit any crime they want, and be immune to our laws?

See post 49. The argument is not that they're immune to our laws. Jurisdiction has a particular meaning in this case. During floor debate on the amendment, Senator Trumbull put forth that it meant, "subject to the complete jurisdiction thereof... not owing allegiance to anybody else." Some of the categories of people explicitly enumerated by SC cases have been discussed earlier in this thread (children of ambassadors, etc). I think a strong case could be made that the children of illegal immigrants do not owe their full allegiance to the US, but to the home country of their parents.

I think most (all?) countries recognize children born to their citizens abroad as citizens themselves. Allegiance (citizenship) is inherited from the parents. My son was born in Japan, he's a US citizen; in Japan, he was a foreigner born in Japan.

But if the child is born in the U.S., the child is not here illegally, and therefore under U.S. jurisdiction.

By this logic, everyone born here is automatically subject to the jurisdiction of the US, so why bother having the clause "subject to..." at all? The fact that it's there means that it's a separate requirement not fulfilled by simply being born here.

 

[werepossum]

Not true. With record UE it's questionable if we should even have immigration at all currently. US has frozen immigration before in times of hardship not to mention illegals. It's a serious problem. The one two punch of pro-globalization policies which shift jobs outside USA and importing labor for jobs which can't be exported has destroyed working class wages in this country.

google Barbara Jordan and immigration. She did extensive studies on the effects.

Now I'm not saying some are not xenophobic but it;s largely a canard when there are economic reasons for limiting immigration. Chamber of Commerce loves it but most working class does not.

Very, very true. The first is hard to fight, although we should at the least all be able to agree to stop policies that actually subsidize American companies moving offshore. The second should be easier to fight, just lower legal immigration and actually fight illegal immigration. An over-supply of anything destroys its value, and labor is no different.

The American dream was essentially a blue collar dream. The well-educated do pretty well everywhere, but America was unique in that an uneducated but reasonably intelligent person willing to work hard to become quite successful, owning a house, later an automobile or even two, sending his kids to college. That one-two punch is emasculating the uneducated hard worker, destroying his chances to own a house or send his children to college so that now government is taking over those responsibilities. And that's a very bad thing indeed.

 

[Infohawk]

Wop was a general term for migrants from Europe. We associate it as a Italian/Sicilian slur as they were accepted a bit more recently. (Italians still have quite a few stereotypes even today as the Irish -you do not hear many stereotypes of German immigrants anymore as that was LONG ago, but they along with many others caught this same shit also as Mexicans (Russians immigrants were treated unwelcome in the teens-20s in USA also -a lot were deported so you don't hear much of that either)

You guys asking me for about the 5th time now which race I am because I write of the plight of one people or another is silly. But if it makes you all feel better I am whatever race I feel people are going out of their way to shit on unnecessarily. Thank you.

What are you getting at? Yes immigrants have been the subject of derogatory terms in the past. And stereotypes. Some of those stereotypes were true, like the Irish being breeders. What does this have to do with central americans and especially illegal central americans?

 

[Orignal Earl]

Some of those stereotypes were true, like the Irish being breeders.

That would be a Catholic thing, not an Irish thing.

 

[Infohawk]

That would be a Catholic thing, not an Irish thing.

If it's considered a catholic thing it's because of Irish and central Americans. France and Austria are traditionally catholic but they don't have the breeder stereotype.

 

[Steeplerot]

That would be a Catholic thing, not an Irish thing.

You can see it used still today in this very thread, except it is fear of the Catholic Mexicans "outbreeding" everyone now.

The more things change...

 

[Steeplerot]

If it's considered a catholic thing it's because of Irish and central Americans. France and Austria are traditionally catholic but they don't have the breeder stereotype.

Because

A. French did not colonize North America anywhere near as much -partly because of politics and wars (besides parts of Quebec of course)

B. Austrian never came over in big numbers like other 18-19 century immigrants and refugees. (We absorbed a lot of Germans, Spanish, UK, Irish and Poles. Russians in some the bigger cities to a smaller extent.

 

[Orignal Earl]

If it's considered a catholic thing it's because of Irish and central Americans. France and Austria are traditionally catholic but they don't have the breeder stereotype.

There is no if, it's the reason.
Read up on what the Church's stance was on contraception and abortion.
French don't have large families??? Ya, your wrong

 

[bfdd]

Yes, but the Irish emigrated legally. The illegals (duh) are not.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-op-rodriguez8apr08,0,1081193.column

There are an estimated 50,000 Irish illegal immigrants in the U.S.; 30,000 of them are thought to live in New York City. Today, this tiny corner in the northern reaches of the Bronx is perhaps the most heavily Irish-born neighborhood in New York, and advocates believe that as many as 40% of local immigrants are undocumented.

All illegals are a problem.

 

[Zebo]

Very, very true. The first is hard to fight, although we should at the least all be able to agree to stop policies that actually subsidize American companies moving offshore. The second should be easier to fight, just lower legal immigration and actually fight illegal immigration. An over-supply of anything destroys its value, and labor is no different.

The American dream was essentially a blue collar dream. The well-educated do pretty well everywhere, but America was unique in that an uneducated but reasonably intelligent person willing to work hard to become quite successful, owning a house, later an automobile or even two, sending his kids to college. That one-two punch is emasculating the uneducated hard worker, destroying his chances to own a house or send his children to college so that now government is taking over those responsibilities. And that's a very bad thing indeed.

Even if the U.S. were to to have 10 million PhD-level researchers and engineers, there wouldn't be 10 million new jobs waiting for them.

I personally know perpetual post docs or waiter post docs in civil engineering/chemistry and so forth.

The ugly truth despite politicians pimping education education education, and setting up next bubble which will crash banks, the education bubble, is the number of positions available for high-end researchers, designers, etc. is intrinsically small.

In the value chain of production there are few $100 an hour jobs, and many $5-10 an hour jobs.

Totally stripping out visa vi globalization religion the $5-10 jobs causes us to tax higher get in debt more so 100 million people can sit at home watching TV to prop up the current status quo and is unsustainable.

Never mind the fact the vast majority of mere mortals do not have the brainpower or drive to become research scientists, doctors, top-level designers, etc. so shipping out everything below that that top level in the value chain basically is planning for high unemployment levels on purpose.

Americans have been betrayed by bought shill economists and politicians who broke the "social contract" for large corporate profits and criminal theft from future taxpayers to fund our current consumption.

Another thing is personnel debt levels are insane as Americans faked being middle class by taking by equity they had and mortgaging it to fund consumption e.g. HELOCs, CC and so forth. Banks were more than willing to extend and pretend. This mask has disappeared with housing implosion and people are finally starting to feel the effects heretics like Ross Perot talked about. Took 20 years but effects are real for plenty. American dream is DOA for even many college grads and really dead for working class.

 

[chucky2]

Who gives a sh1t how it was handled in the past?

1.) Natural resources (land by virtue of congestion, and water by virtue of use by population) are in far shorter supply than they were 100-200 years ago. And that is not improving.

2.) Unemployment is sky high, after hundreds of Billions of $$$,$$$,$$$,$$$.$$ borrowed from China and printed out of thin air. Not a sustainable set of actions to keep unemployment at the high levels they're at now.

3.) We don't need Millions of immigrants (legal and especially illegal) coming into the country, see #'s 1 and 2 above.

Given 1-3 above, why would anyone be against taking whatever steps necessary to curb unchecked* immigration???? How totally and completely dumbf*ck would they be to want to see that continued?

*Unchecked: Unchecked meaning, not what we officially want to allow to come into the country, whatever that number ends up being each year - as it will swing as our needs dictate.

What idiot would ever want anyone born here, in this day and age, with all our current and future issues, to automatically become a citizen if not one of the parents/legal guardians are?

How totally and completely insane is that????

 

[piasabird]

I am part Irish (ulster).
Some of my ancesters were Seawrights and some were from the surname Houghey (huffey)which is suppose to be celtic for Son of a Horse. Just think cavalry.

What did they use for birth control in the late 1880's to the early 1900's.

 

[Steeplerot]

The catholic stereotypes through history thing is very easy to understand when you hear the arguments of nativists it is like a trip back in US/British colonial history!

The landowning wealthy aristocrats who financed and organized with and were our founding fathers were fellow Church of England Anglicans. (and Scottish Protestants -who are now commonly called Baptist who settled down south USA)

These folks were through and through raised in the British Empire, the 13 Colonies/Catholic France collaboration during our Independence from Britain even then was always volatile. (Conservatives here/and UK Tories STILL distrust French culturally in jokes all the time!)

Anyhow, back to old stereotypes still around.

Catholics..all those Catholics in Europe back then colonizing. All the natural enemies of the British Empire and her queen/king (who remember: way back when set up their own religion back in 1552 to set up their own sphere of influence against Catholicism and later their colonies - the central American Catholic peoples.

Catholics (Mainly Spain and Portugal) got the jump on Protestant UK in the Rush for the New World, even Netherlands got in quicker! Conservatives have been playing catch up since on this continent. The anti migrant outrage feeds off of very old geopolitics of Old Europe that should have been left behind with General Washington.


Ever heard the slur "bleeding heart liberal"? It is a old British Empire slur for Catholic still in use now and then from the random Conservative. Next time you hear this or other Catholic slurs think of our War of Independence and whose side you would have been on. Those Bleeding heart surrender monkey libtard French Catholics saved Gen Washington's ass from eating boot leather another winter.

I am not a Catholic by the way, I am no fan of religion, just history.

 

[piasabird]

My dad never had no religion unless you consider Golfing on Sunday a religion.

 

[Steeplerot]

The Catholic French didn't stick around much here in USA after fighting with the British with us, they went home and declared their own independence from a crown and then went on to pwn the hell out of Europe like like not seen until the blitkreig in 1939. That is until the UK smacked them down in Waterloo. The French were too busy invading all of europe a few times to colonise here much Zebo. Austrian/Hapsburg Empire were busy in that also since you mention them.

Ever notice you dont hear of Germans not being the overbreeding dirty, huddled masses and illegals?


Germans were not Catholic or UK Protestant back then like the Austrian/Hungarian Empire were. they were mainly http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lutheranism refugees who were mercenaries for the UK "Hessians" who actually did stick around the 13 Colonies and assimilated (or were rather not messed with much as they were mercenaries instead of people crawling across a desert to wash your dishes)

 

[Steeplerot]

My dad never had no religion unless you consider Golfing on Sunday a religion.

This is a good sign I know it does seem odd in 2011 to point out such trite ideas as cultural/religious identification, but I point out the history mainly because the issue is utterly muddled by time. I just wonder if some folks in here know anyone in these situations? Besides what someone told you or guy that looks like a vato drinking a coors 16ozer on the corner the other day who made your paranoid ass clench up? Quite a few in here are quick as hell to judge which as I said I view as a view that is historically unamerican.

And for those who are actually racists instead of people who just want to not see people exploited and our job markets fail infrastructure be underfunded etc..Check it out: Mexican food is yummier then any burger. With declining hater birthrates and more tastier Mexican-American places opening -Capitalism will decide you knuckleheads.

Better get you your own 16ozer and start shakin the trailerpark with the mizzuz. Dem Mesikans a comin!

 

[Orignal Earl]

What did they use for birth control in the late 1880's to the early 1900's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condom

 

[werepossum]

Even if the U.S. were to to have 10 million PhD-level researchers and engineers, there wouldn't be 10 million new jobs waiting for them.

I personally know perpetual post docs or waiter post docs in civil engineering/chemistry and so forth.

The ugly truth despite politicians pimping education education education, and setting up next bubble which will crash banks, the education bubble, is the number of positions available for high-end researchers, designers, etc. is intrinsically small.

In the value chain of production there are few $100 an hour jobs, and many $5-10 an hour jobs.

Totally stripping out visa vi globalization religion the $5-10 jobs causes us to tax higher get in debt more so 100 million people can sit at home watching TV to prop up the current status quo and is unsustainable.

Never mind the fact the vast majority of mere mortals do not have the brainpower or drive to become research scientists, doctors, top-level designers, etc. so shipping out everything below that that top level in the value chain basically is planning for high unemployment levels on purpose.

Americans have been betrayed by bought shill economists and politicians who broke the "social contract" for large corporate profits and criminal theft from future taxpayers to fund our current consumption.

Another thing is personnel debt levels are insane as Americans faked being middle class by taking by equity they had and mortgaging it to fund consumption e.g. HELOCs, CC and so forth. Banks were more than willing to extend and pretend. This mask has disappeared with housing implosion and people are finally starting to feel the effects heretics like Ross Perot talked about. Took 20 years but effects are real for plenty. American dream is DOA for even many college grads and really dead for working class.

All true. The last bastion of the American Dream is working for the federal government - good pay, great benefits and fantastic job security, for as long as it can borrow money to pay you. What's worse is that there are no easy or straightforward paths to restore it to the masses.