(More) proof that pacifists are stupid

[glenn1]

Story link

'I never thought they would fire live rounds'

Demonstrators pull out after four are injured

Peter Beaumont in Bethlehem and Martin Wainwright
Wednesday April 3, 2002
The Guardian

Forty peace activists from Britain, Europe and the US were holed up in a central Bethlehem hotel last night awaiting evacuation after one member of the group was seriously injured by a ricocheting bullet.
Another 35 volunteers attempting to act as human shields for Palestinian families said that they were determined to stay on in the town's three refugee camps of Aida, Azza and Deheshe.

Shots and passing tanks rattled the windows of the Star hotel, 100 yards from a prolonged gun battle in Manger Square, as international business lawyer Rory Macmillan said that volunteers' personal safety now outweighed their usefulness as international monitors.

"Once General Sharon started talking about a closed military zone, we realised we'd just be pushed aside," he said. "We've lost our value as a deterrent against the Israelis maltreating Palestinians. Their soldiers were prepared to fire on our demonstration on Monday and frankly personal safety is now the priority."

The most seriously injured of four protesters from Britain who were wounded during a peaceful march towards Israeli tanks blocking the road from Bethlehem to Beit Jala on Monday said that she had been doubled-up with pain and had difficulty breathing after she was hit.

Speaking from her hospital bed in the Palestinian Christian town of Beit Jala, Kate Edwards, a community worker from Manchester, said: "We were walking up the hill from Bethlehem when a tank came down the hill towards us. I could see a man in the tank and he was shouting at us to go back. We carried on going, but then heard several bangs. We thought they had fired stun grenades to chase us off.

"We decided to stop for a moment to get used to the sound of the bangs before deciding what to do. I never thought for a moment that they would fire live ammunition at us. Then I heard several more bangs and I realised that I had been hit in the stomach."

 

[iamwiz82]

<< We were walking up the hill from Bethlehem when a tank came down the hill towards us. I could see a man in the tank and he was shouting at us to go back. We carried on going, but then heard several bangs. >>



that is the international sign for "get the fsck outta there!!"

 

[UltraQuiet]

<< Their soldiers were prepared to fire on our demonstration on Monday and frankly personal safety is now the priority." >>


I guess it just wasn't all that important to them. Like most people if it affects them in the pocketbook or there is a chance they might get hurt the "cause" loses all it's importance.

 

[justint]

I'm probably going to get flamed for being a liberal pacifist or something, but shooting live rounds at unarmed people seems kind of messed up to me even if they were shooting at the ground in front of them.
It does raise the question of what would happen is say for example 100,000 unarmed Palestinians tried to stage a march on Jerusalem or something, shades of the March on Birmingham, Ghandi, etc. WTF are they going to do, shoot them all?

 

[GoodToGo]

Too bad theres no law against stupidity or these guys would be getting life imprisonment. :|

 

[chibchakan]

<< 'I never thought they would fire live rounds' >>



LOL

 

[shiner]

Gee they were in a war zone and got live rounds fired at them? I'm shocked....don't the Israelis know that idiotic, tree hugging, mostly likely French, pacifists are immune from being shot at?

 

[StageLeft]

<<

<< 'I never thought they would fire live rounds' >>



LOL >>

Like we needed any more proof, but still

<< mostly likely French >>

HAHAHA

 

[OutHouse]

too bad it was only a wound.

 

[Miramonti]

Where does it say "pacifist" in the story? They're standing up for their beliefs, that israel's level of aggression towards the palestinians is unjust, and they've been there for over a year.

That doesn't sound pacifist to me. Their belief was that they could protect palestinians because israelis might have enough integrity to not shoot at innocent civilians, particularly non-arabs. But they haven't descriminated from civilians before so why should they now, and perhaps that was the flaw in their logic.

Some people go on their own buck and risk their lives to defend what they believe in...but then there's the armchair activists who post shallow rants like this. Perhaps you're implying that they should be taking up arms and joining in against the aggressors but whatever the point is it doesn't make sense.

 

[Maetryx]

Man, I bet they learned their lesson! If Vietnam taught us one thing, it's that you should stage your war protests from the safety of a University or Canada.

 

[shiner]

<< That doesn't sound pacifist to me. Their belief was that they could protect palestinians because israelis might have enough integrity to not should at innocent civilians, particularly non-arabs. But they haven't descriminated from civilians before so why should they now, and perhaps that was the flaw in their logic. >>


Ok...how about the term misguided idiots? Do they not find it a bit hypocritical to be acting as human shields for Palestinian civilians whom Israel does NOT target purposefully but they don't' want to act as human shields for Israeli civilians who are regularly target by Palestinian suicide bombers??

 

[b0mbrman]

<< It does raise the question of what would happen is say for example 100,000 unarmed Palestinians tried to stage a march on Jerusalem or something, shades of the March on Birmingham, Ghandi, etc. WTF are they going to do, shoot them all? >>


It depends...are the Israelis allowed to search them all?

If you'll recall, Palestinians have a pretty bad record this past week of *not* having one of their own blown up around Israel :Q

 

[Miramonti]

Do they not find it a bit hypocritical to be acting as human shields for Palestinian civilians whom Israel does NOT target purposefully but they don't' want to act as human shields for Israeli civilians who are regularly target by Palestinian suicide bombers??

Plenty of israeli soldiers said they have many times civilians are targeted. While suicide bombing is ugly and unjust as well, tanks and heavy artillery blow people in just as many pieces, for that matter more. Don't kid yourself if you think the israelis try hard to avoid civilians. 3-4x more palestinians have died than israelis.

 

[OutHouse]

those people make me sick. They want to act as human shields for crazed fanatics. where are they when a suscide bomber blows him/her self up in a crowded market killing innocent people???

the jews are targeting the fanatics behind it, how ever the palestinians just want to kill everybody they can.

 

[Texmaster]

<<

<< We were walking up the hill from Bethlehem when a tank came down the hill towards us. I could see a man in the tank and he was shouting at us to go back. We carried on going, but then heard several bangs. >>



that is the international sign for "get the fsck outta there!!" >>



LOL

 

[shiner]

<< Don't kid yourself if you think the israelis try hard to avoid civilians. 3-4x more palestinians have died than israelis. >>


And justly so...they started the Intifada, Israel is just defending itself. You know it's kinda hard to distinguish between a terrorist and a civilian when all the Palestinians have been brainwashed into believe all Jews should die. Arafat could have had everything he wanted at the Camp David accord. What did he do? Turned around and walked when Barak offered him everything he said he had been wanting.

 

[b0mbrman]

<< Plenty of israeli soldiers said they have many times civilians are targeted. While suicide bombing is ugly and unjust as well, tanks and heavy artillery blow people in just as many pieces, for that matter more. Don't kid yourself if you think the israelis try hard to avoid civilians. 3-4x more palestinians have died than israelis. >>


Question...do you know who is included in that big Palestinian number? Does it say what part of that number belong to the following groups?

(a) The Palestinians who detonated suicide bombs
(b) The Palestinians who opened fire on Israeli civilians and were taken
(c) Palestinians who talked crap to groups of soldiers from the well-trained IDF, got into a gun battle, then lost

 

[Lucky]

Well isreal sure doesnt care about palestinians in bethleham. Anyone see the CNN footage of tanks just rolling over and destroying cars and other property they could have easily avoided?

 

[Texmaster]

<< Well isreal sure doesnt care about palestinians in bethleham. Anyone see the CNN footage of tanks just rolling over and destroying cars and other property they could have easily avoided? >>



And how many suicide bombers went off killing dozens of Israelie civilians BEFORE Israel launched this attack?

 

[Lucky]

<<

<< Well isreal sure doesnt care about palestinians in bethleham. Anyone see the CNN footage of tanks just rolling over and destroying cars and other property they could have easily avoided? >>



And how many suicide bombers went off killing dozens of Israelie civilians BEFORE Israel launched this attack? >>





Thats irrevelant. (edit: but still very sad, and unjustified). If we went to war with Iraq and they torturing POWs they had captured, does that give us the same right? IMO no.

 

[Turkey]

<< Some people go on their own buck and risk their lives to defend what they believe in... >>



That's the point! They didn't think they were risking their lives ("I never thought they would use live rounds") and they don't even want to ("personal safety is now the priority"). What kind of human shield is that anyway? The kind that doesn't take a bullet? What were they protecting the families from? I can't even conceive their thought process it's so unbelieveable. This whole Israeli-Arab thing gets more unbelieveable by the day.

 

[Miramonti]

Arafat could have had everything he wanted at the Camp David accord. What did he do? Turned around and walked when Barak offered him everything he said he had been wanting.

And because of his mistake he will probably wind up settling for less when there is eventually a peace agreement. Peace is to the benefit of both sides, but I don't think sharon wants peace as much as he wants to use as much force as he can get away with to instill revenge.

Question...do you know who is included in that big Palestinian number? Does it say what part of that number belong to the following groups?

(a) The Palestinians who detonated suicide bombs
(b) The Palestinians who opened fire on Israeli civilians and were taken
(c) Palestinians who talked crap to groups of soldiers from the well-trained IDF, got into a gun battle, then lost

No, its a running tally from the AP that never has any clarification. I'm guessing its close to 1300 to 400 deaths by now.

And how many suicide bombers went off killing dozens of Israelie civilians BEFORE Israel launched this attack?

"This" attack, or before the israeli occupation started again? Certainly plenty before this assault, which both sides had plenty of deaths before this assault, given that its been going on for about 18 months.

If there are other countries that support Israel's occupation and military tactics, other than our bed buddies GB and maybe Canada, maybe someone could list them because I haven't heard of any but am interested in knowing.

 

[Hammer]

Anyone who walks toward gunfire instead of away from it should be prepared to deal with its consequences, and not whine about it later.

 

[Kadarin]

<< Anyone who walks toward gunfire instead of away from it should be prepared to deal with its consequences, and not whine about it later. >>



Agreed. These people were morons, no matter how you look at it.