More Power - Americans Again Buying Big Engines!

[Ornery]

This is the topic I'd add this story to, but it's archived:

Good book: High and Mighty: SUVs--The World's Most Dangerous Vehicles and How They Got That Way - MaDHaVoK 09/24/2002

More Power! - Americans Again Buying Big Engines:

• Automakers installed large V-8 engines in 29.1 percent of all passenger vehicles built in North America for the U.S. market last year, the highest rate since 1985, according to Ward's Automotive Reports. The rate has risen every year since 2000, when V-8s went into 25.3 percent of North American-built cars and trucks for American drivers, Ward's statistics show.
  
  In the same four-year stretch, smaller 4-cylinder installations fell from nearly 27 percent to 25.3 percent.
  
  Analysts and industry executives give a variety of reasons for the rise in V-8s, which use more fuel but produce more power than smaller engines: strong demand for trucks and sport utility vehicles, relatively inexpensive gas prices, and technology that's leading to improved fuel efficiency, even in bigger engines.
  
  The popular Hemi, which dates to the 1950s, gets its name from the hemispherical shape of its combustion chamber, which Chrysler executives say allows it to produce more power and achieve greater fuel economy. Chrysler introduced the newest version of the Hemi in 2002 on heavy-duty trucks, then began offering it as an option on the Dodge Ram 1500 pickup and Durango SUV.
  
  Chrysler says a Hemi-equipped 2004 Ram 1500 can get 14 miles per gallon in the city and 18 mpg on the highway, roughly 10 percent better than the non-Hemi engine in the previous Ram.
  
  Environmental advocates say making vehicles more powerful is the wrong approach -- Detroit automakers should be focusing instead on hybrid and other ``green'' technology that foreign makers excel at.

Oh, the horror!

 

[Spoooon]

I only have a 6 cylinder engine. A nice 4.2 liter 275 horsepower engine.

 

[Heisenberg]

I will never own a four-banger. Even the 245hp supercharged 3.8L motor in my daily driver is barely adequate. When I really want power, I break out the 300+hp 5.7 V8.

 

[SweetSweetLeroyBrown]

love the 6.0L in my truck!

 

[BatmanNate]

These statistics take into account trucks and SUV's, and from what you wrote they are for what North American Automakers are producing, not necessarily representitive of what Americans are buying on the whole. Trucks and SUV's aside, there is still an unfortunately limited selection of passenger cars with V8 model engines, which I would like to see change. While the V8 is essential for a true luxury car and in most cases a true sports car, I wouldn't mind seeing it as an option for more of the cheaper, less fancy cars on the road today. I suppose having so many interchangable FWD platforms makes this cost prohibitive, but that's why I don't particular care for most newer cars, the inexpensive ones anyway.


I also should note that the 6 cylinder in my current car produces a lot more power than my last V8 car, but that is the progress of efficiency technology. Many of today's 350s produce over twice the power stock of what mine did, and get even better gas mileage than my current 6 cylinder.

 

[Ornery]

Trucks and SUV's aside, there is still an unfortunately limited selection of passenger cars with V8 model engines, which I would like to see change.

Fortunately, IT IS! The first of the big three to abandon RWD and V8s, is the first to bring back really new V8 Sedans.


While the V8 is essential for a true luxury car and in most cases a true sports car, I wouldn't mind seeing it as an option for more of the cheaper, less fancy cars on the road today. I suppose having so many interchangable FWD platforms makes this cost prohibitive..."

Why only for luxury cars? Detroit used to offer RWD V8s in the most mundane family haulers. Now, all of a sudden, it's a big exotic luxury.

I'd MUCH rather have a low tech, low RPM grunt like a V8, than a hyper, high tech 4 or 6 banger. It's gotta be cheaper to build a simple V8, than a multi valve, turbo whatever.

 

[BatmanNate]

Originally posted by: Ornery
Trucks and SUV's aside, there is still an unfortunately limited selection of passenger cars with V8 model engines, which I would like to see change.

Fortunately, IT IS! The first of the big three to abandon RWD and V8s, is the first to bring back really new V8 Sedans.


While the V8 is essential for a true luxury car and in most cases a true sports car, I wouldn't mind seeing it as an option for more of the cheaper, less fancy cars on the road today. I suppose having so many interchangable FWD platforms makes this cost prohibitive..."

Why only for luxury cars? Detroit used to offer RWD V8s in the most mundane family haulers. Now, all of a sudden, it's a big exotic luxury.

I'd MUCH rather have a low tech, low RPM grunt like a V8, than a hyper, high tech 4 or 6 banger. It's gotta be cheaper to build a simple V8, than a multi valve, turbo whatever.

I would imagine their reasoning for using V8's predominantly 30 or 40 years ago whereas now they are a luxury is that with the size and weight of most cars back then, it was necessary to have the kind of power that only a V8 could provide. Now, in the never ending search for profit, cheaper alternatives have surfaced (smaller, more efficient motors on FWD platforms and lighter cars).

In regard to the second portion of your post, it is not fundamentally cheaper to build a V8, because modern V8's just are not as "simple" as the ones of yesterday, because they can't be. To produce a competitive amount of power while using a lower compression ratio to compensate for unleaded fuel and other emissions restrictions the motors must become more complex. A more complex valve train, electronic fuel systems, etc. In addition to this, if the manufacturers want to avoid 'gas guzzler' taxes more displacement is not an option. Cadillac's 32v Northstar V8 is no simple thing, and I would imagine it is more expensive to produce than most 6 cylinders and turbo charged 4 cylinders.

Plus, in some cars there are a multitude of reasons to choose a "hgih tech multi valve turbo whatever 6 banger" over a "simple V8" for example the Porsche 911. Low center of gravity, better weight balance, and a metric buttload of power. I'm not saying V8's aren't practical--they are, in many situations. Just not all of them. A 4 cylinder can be more than adequate for many cars on the road, namely people who want cheap. My 6 cylinder is has more throw me back in the seat torque than my Impala had with the V8, not to mention the car is a whole lot faster and gets better gas mileage. So it is preference as well.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Spoooon
I only have a 6 cylinder engine. A nice 4.2 liter 275 horsepower engine.

i love that engine. tows awesome for a 6.

 

[StageLeft]

*clap*. We can fill the saudi coffers and when the oil starts to diminish and they cut us off we can attack them, for trying to monopolize things. Ah, what a great century it's shaping up to be.

 

[CraigRT]

I want a 2003 Dakota SLT... 4.7L... bigger engines are good that engine ain't even big, but big enough for that truck!

 

[vi edit]

And more Americans are in debt up to their ears than ever before!

 

[ElFenix]

I would imagine their reasoning for using V8's predominantly 30 or 40 years ago whereas now they are a luxury is that with the size and weight of most cars back then, it was necessary to have the kind of power that only a V8 could provide. Now, in the never ending search for profit, cheaper alternatives have surfaced (smaller, more efficient motors on FWD platforms and lighter cars).

if you think cars today weigh less than cars of yesteryear you're fooling yourself. gains in power delivery is what allows a modern 6 cylinder to pull a car as well as it does, not that the car is lighter.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
*clap*. We can fill the saudi coffers and when the oil starts to diminish and they cut us off we can attack them, for trying to monopolize things. Ah, what a great century it's shaping up to be.

we have iraq's oil we don't need no frickin' saudis

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: vi_edit
And more Americans are in debt up to their ears than ever before!

For the first time ever the MSRP of the average new car purchase in the US hit $30k. The out-the-door price is a few K lower, since domestics love to pretend that they're giving huge discounts. Still, with the average family income approx twice that, one can quickly tell that people are very much in love with having a nice new car, even if their kids won't have college paid for. Or band lessons. Or a family vacation.

 

[HappyPuppy]

I can't wait until gas hits $4.00/gal. It won't be long.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy
I can't wait until gas hits $4.00/gal. It won't be long.

In a sick demented way, I can't wait either Because I'll be still able to afford filling up my cars while the clowns barely able to break even with the 15 mpg vehicles will be walking to work

I guess the economy would fall apart, so that's kind of a negative.

 

[rufruf44]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: vi_edit
And more Americans are in debt up to their ears than ever before!

For the first time ever the MSRP of the average new car purchase in the US hit $30k. The out-the-door price is a few K lower, since domestics love to pretend that they're giving huge discounts. Still, with the average family income approx twice that, one can quickly tell that people are very much in love with having a nice new car, even if their kids won't have college paid for. Or band lessons. Or a family vacation.

And you're honestly are suprised about that??? USA always has the me me me first attitude.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: vi_edit
And more Americans are in debt up to their ears than ever before!

For the first time ever the MSRP of the average new car purchase in the US hit $30k. The out-the-door price is a few K lower, since domestics love to pretend that they're giving huge discounts. Still, with the average family income approx twice that, one can quickly tell that people are very much in love with having a nice new car, even if their kids won't have college paid for. Or band lessons. Or a family vacation.

is that purchases only or does that count leases? i bet leasing and the illusion that you're getting more car for your money has driven up MSRPs faster than anything else

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: vi_edit
And more Americans are in debt up to their ears than ever before!

For the first time ever the MSRP of the average new car purchase in the US hit $30k. The out-the-door price is a few K lower, since domestics love to pretend that they're giving huge discounts. Still, with the average family income approx twice that, one can quickly tell that people are very much in love with having a nice new car, even if their kids won't have college paid for. Or band lessons. Or a family vacation.

is that purchases only or does that count leases? i bet leasing and the illusion that you're getting more car for your money has driven up MSRPs faster than anything else

No idea, I just happened to read it on one of those MSN posts somewhere

 

[Ornery]

"...in some cars there are a multitude of reasons to choose a "hgih tech multi valve turbo whatever 6 banger" over a "simple V8" for example the Porsche 911. Low center of gravity, better weight balance, and a metric buttload of power. I'm not saying V8's aren't practical--they are, in many situations. Just not all of them. A 4 cylinder can be more than adequate for many cars on the road, namely people who want cheap. My 6 cylinder is has more throw me back in the seat torque than my Impala had with the V8, not to mention the car is a whole lot faster and gets better gas mileage. So it is preference as well. "

'll take the EFI, but you can keep the OHV stuff. It's no secret that you get better mileage with the smaller displacement, but I'll pass on the complexity involved in getting more power out of them. Hell, I can buy a year's worth of fuel, for what it costs to replace the timing belt, for example.

Originally posted by: HappyPuppy
I can't wait until gas hits $4.00/gal. It won't be long.

Don't hold your breath. I've been hearing that same song for 25 years!

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: vi_edit
And more Americans are in debt up to their ears than ever before!

For the first time ever the MSRP of the average new car purchase in the US hit $30k. The out-the-door price is a few K lower, since domestics love to pretend that they're giving huge discounts. Still, with the average family income approx twice that, one can quickly tell that people are very much in love with having a nice new car, even if their kids won't have college paid for. Or band lessons. Or a family vacation.

The Crown Vic is $20,000.00. BFD! The average American sedan, like a Ford Galaxy or Chevy Impala came with a V8 and was dirt cheap. We did it before, we can do it again... it's what consumers want!

 

[StageLeft]

Don't hold your breath. I've been hearing that same song for 25 years!

Eventually you'll not only hear it, but see it too. Oil will run out...

 

[iamwiz82]

I havent even started my big ole V8 in 4 months

 

[vi edit]

The Crown Vic is $20,000.00. BFD! The average American sedan, like a Ford Galaxy or Chevy Impala came with a V8 and was dirt cheap. We did it before, we can do it again... it's what consumers want!

A crown vic or a licoln is a flipping blip on the radar in the grand scale of car sales. They are border line insignificant. It's all about SUV & truck sales which are fueled more by fashion than function.

 

[Ornery]

• I'm just saying, we can have our V8 cake, and eat it cheaply too!