More Outsourcing

[RichardE]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/cpress/20060124/ca_pr_on_wo/eu_cia_secret_prisons

STRASBOURG, France (AP) - The head of a European investigation into alleged
CIA secret prisons in Europe said Tuesday that evidence pointed to the existence of a system of "outsourcing" of torture by the United States, and said it was highly likely that European governments knew of it.
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But Swiss senator Dick Marty said there was no formal evidence so far of the existence of clandestine detention centres in Romania or Poland as alleged by the New York-based Human Rights Watch.

"There is a great deal of coherent, convergent evidence pointing to the existence of a system of 'relocation' or 'outsourcing' of torture," Marty said in a report presented to the Council of Europe, the human rights watchdog on whose behalf he is investigating.

"Acts of torture or severe violation of detainees' dignity through the administration of inhuman or degrading treatment are carried outside national territory and beyond the authority of national intelligence services."

The report said that extraordinary rendition - transferring terror suspects to countries where they may face torture or ill treatment - "seems to have concerned more than a hundred persons in recent years."

"It is highly unlikely that European governments, or at least their intelligence services, were unaware," it said.

In the report, Marty analyzed the cases of an Egyptian cleric allegedly kidnapped from Milan, Italy, in 2003 by CIA agents and a German captured in Macedonia and taken to
Afghanistan in an apparent case of mistaken identity.

Citing an American lawyer, Marty also said six Bosnians were abducted by American agents on Bosnian soil and taken to Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, despite a Bosnia judgment ordering their release.

Last week, Italy's justice minister formally asked the United States to allow Italian prosecutors to question 22 purported CIA operatives they accuse of kidnapping the Egyptian cleric, Osama Moustafa Hassan Nasr, in 2003 from a Milan street.

Nasr, believed to belong to an Islamic terror group, was seized on Feb. 17, 2003. Prosecutors claim the cleric, who is also known as Abu Omar, was taken by the CIA to a joint U.S.-Italian air base, flown to Germany and then to Egypt, where he says he was tortured.

Marty also said he would follow up on evidence gathered in the case of Khaled al Masri, a German of Lebanese origin reportedly kidnapped from Germany and sent to Afghanistan, in the next stage of his investigation.

The Council of Europe launched its probe after allegations surfaced in November that U.S. agents interrogated key al-Qaida suspects at clandestine prisons in eastern Europe and transported some suspects to other countries passing through Europe.

Human Rights Watch identified Romania and Poland as possible sites of secret U.S.-run detention facilities. Both countries have denied involvement. Clandestine detention centres would violate European human rights treaties.

Marty's report said there was no formal, irrefutable evidence of the existence of secret CIA prisons in Romania, Poland or any other country.

"On the other hand, it has been proved that individuals have been abducted, deprived of their liberty and all rights and transported to different destinations in Europe, to be handed over to countries in which they have suffered degrading treatment and torture," the report said.

Well...it is outsourcing...suprised this made yahoo's page, wonder what the reaction will be , since a large chunk of the average Joe has yahoo as there main page. What really gets me, is most people have a common perception of the CIA performing torture for decades, and only now is it getting alot of publicity. Wonder why that is, save people do not want the world to see there dirty laundry.

 

[Genx87]

I found this story interesting as I listend to it on the Today Show.
So the stories about these super duper secret prisons turns out to be false, but lets continue to push the story by saying they have to be somewhere.

In other words this story ended up being a bunch of hot air.

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: Genx87
I found this story interesting as I listend to it on the Today Show.
So the stories about these super duper secret prisons turns out to be false, but lets continue to push the story by saying they have to be somewhere.

In other words this story ended up being a bunch of hot air.

Sounds like Bush and Cheney's mysterious missing WMDs... :laugh:

 

[Albatross]

as long as propaganda is anti-Bush everything is fine.those investigations aren`t supposed to discover anything,i bet in 2008 they will come up with something else,just in time for presidential elections in US.

 

[sdifox]

It will end when the US is forced to export labour, just like Phillipines, Spain, and Taiwan.

 

[Zebo]

I've told you guys when it will end- when you're willing to work for $40 a week. That's how much we pay guys who make our signs in asia. - crate cost of $2200 and frieght of $950. Figure about $50 a week. May have to cut back on eating out and food altogether.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Zebo
I've told you guys when it will end- when you're willing to work for $40 a week. That's how much we pay guys who make our signs in asia.

Which is fine because many of us are skilled labor not making signs.
I had an interesting conversation with a guy who all he does is design project plans to move entire depts over to low cost countries.

He said India is starting to become too expensive and China has pockets left. He said the next big push will be back into South America. The bigger problem is the lack of unskilled labor in India and China. Everybody is starting to become educated with Bachelors, MBAs and PHDs and they wont work for 40 bucks a week but instead demand wages close to US wages.

His industry is starting to see a real crunch as the rest of the world is catching up pretty quickly.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Zebo
I've told you guys when it will end- when you're willing to work for $40 a week. That's how much we pay guys who make our signs in asia.

Which is fine because many of us are skilled labor not making signs.
I had an interesting conversation with a guy who all he does is design project plans to move entire depts over to low cost countries.

He said India is starting to become too expensive and China has pockets left. He said the next big push will be back into South America. The bigger problem is the lack of unskilled labor in India and China. Everybody is starting to become educated with Bachelors, MBAs and PHDs and they wont work for 40 bucks a week but instead demand wages close to US wages.

His industry is starting to see a real crunch as the rest of the world is catching up pretty quickly.

Not ture at all - we make tritium signs and lighting - have sophisticated electronics in them and the enigineers make about $350 a month over there. The real deal is there is no original distribution of ones labor and only owners are profiting to the tune of millions and billions. My dad did'nt want to outsource - we began employing undocmented and HB1 but that was still proved too expensive.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Zebo
I've told you guys when it will end- when you're willing to work for $40 a week. That's how much we pay guys who make our signs in asia.

Which is fine because many of us are skilled labor not making signs.
I had an interesting conversation with a guy who all he does is design project plans to move entire depts over to low cost countries.

He said India is starting to become too expensive and China has pockets left. He said the next big push will be back into South America. The bigger problem is the lack of unskilled labor in India and China. Everybody is starting to become educated with Bachelors, MBAs and PHDs and they wont work for 40 bucks a week but instead demand wages close to US wages.

His industry is starting to see a real crunch as the rest of the world is catching up pretty quickly.

Not ture at all - we make tritium signs and lighting - have sophisticated electronics in them and the enigineers make about $350 a month over there. The real deal is there is no original distribution of ones labor and only owners are profiting to the tune of millions and billions. My dad did'nt want to outsource - we began employing undocmented and HB1 but that was still proved too expensive.

This is what the guy does for a living, Ill trust his experiences more than yours.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Zebo
I've told you guys when it will end- when you're willing to work for $40 a week. That's how much we pay guys who make our signs in asia.

Which is fine because many of us are skilled labor not making signs.
I had an interesting conversation with a guy who all he does is design project plans to move entire depts over to low cost countries.

He said India is starting to become too expensive and China has pockets left. He said the next big push will be back into South America. The bigger problem is the lack of unskilled labor in India and China. Everybody is starting to become educated with Bachelors, MBAs and PHDs and they wont work for 40 bucks a week but instead demand wages close to US wages.

His industry is starting to see a real crunch as the rest of the world is catching up pretty quickly.

Not ture at all - we make tritium signs and lighting - have sophisticated electronics in them and the enigineers make about $350 a month over there. The real deal is there is no original distribution of ones labor and only owners are profiting to the tune of millions and billions. My dad did'nt want to outsource - we began employing undocmented and HB1 but that was still proved too expensive.

This is what the guy does for a living, Ill trust his experiences more than yours.

You don't see the fact that companies are moving there plants that they moved to Mexico to China now as the "handwriting on the wall"?

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Zebo
I've told you guys when it will end- when you're willing to work for $40 a week. That's how much we pay guys who make our signs in asia.

Which is fine because many of us are skilled labor not making signs.
I had an interesting conversation with a guy who all he does is design project plans to move entire depts over to low cost countries.

He said India is starting to become too expensive and China has pockets left. He said the next big push will be back into South America. The bigger problem is the lack of unskilled labor in India and China. Everybody is starting to become educated with Bachelors, MBAs and PHDs and they wont work for 40 bucks a week but instead demand wages close to US wages.

His industry is starting to see a real crunch as the rest of the world is catching up pretty quickly.

Not ture at all - we make tritium signs and lighting - have sophisticated electronics in them and the enigineers make about $350 a month over there. The real deal is there is no original distribution of ones labor and only owners are profiting to the tune of millions and billions. My dad did'nt want to outsource - we began employing undocmented and HB1 but that was still proved too expensive.

This is what the guy does for a living, Ill trust his experiences more than yours.

You don't see the fact that companies are moving there plants that they moved to Mexico to China now as the "handwriting on the wall"?

Did you bother to read anything of what I said?
Most likely not as usual.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Zebo
I've told you guys when it will end- when you're willing to work for $40 a week. That's how much we pay guys who make our signs in asia.

Which is fine because many of us are skilled labor not making signs.
I had an interesting conversation with a guy who all he does is design project plans to move entire depts over to low cost countries.

He said India is starting to become too expensive and China has pockets left. He said the next big push will be back into South America. The bigger problem is the lack of unskilled labor in India and China. Everybody is starting to become educated with Bachelors, MBAs and PHDs and they wont work for 40 bucks a week but instead demand wages close to US wages.

His industry is starting to see a real crunch as the rest of the world is catching up pretty quickly.

India and China both have vast amounts of unskilled labor...Yeah, they might have 100 million people with Bachelors, but that still leaves 90% of the population with nothing...

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Genx87
I found this story interesting as I listend to it on the Today Show.
So the stories about these super duper secret prisons turns out to be false, but lets continue to push the story by saying they have to be somewhere.

In other words this story ended up being a bunch of hot air.

And they won't speak a word of it.

A biased mainstream media eager to bash Bush at face value on the most sensitive of issues, with no proof or evidence. This is but the latest example in a whole string of them the past year alone.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Genx87


Did you bother to read anything of what I said?
Most likely not as usual.

I have always had a hard time with understanding someone when they are talking out of there ass...... as usual.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Zebo
I've told you guys when it will end- when you're willing to work for $40 a week. That's how much we pay guys who make our signs in asia.

Which is fine because many of us are skilled labor not making signs.
I had an interesting conversation with a guy who all he does is design project plans to move entire depts over to low cost countries.

He said India is starting to become too expensive and China has pockets left. He said the next big push will be back into South America. The bigger problem is the lack of unskilled labor in India and China. Everybody is starting to become educated with Bachelors, MBAs and PHDs and they wont work for 40 bucks a week but instead demand wages close to US wages.

His industry is starting to see a real crunch as the rest of the world is catching up pretty quickly.

India and China both have vast amounts of unskilled labor...Yeah, they might have 100 million people with Bachelors, but that still leaves 90% of the population with nothing...

Which is actually a big part of the problem. You have what amounts to an upper class up there with all the people working in outsourcing industries like computer science, while the rest of the country is truly dirt poor. This creates significant social and economic issues that are growing worse, and starting to become a problem, especially in India.

Along with all the other problems starting to crop up with outsourcing, I think one thing is becoming kind of clear. Outsourcing is not the death of the working man, and it's not the Holy Grail of the businessman. The idea that skilled (or even fairly unskilled) labor is basically interchangable from country to country, even among places with vastly different economic, political and social systems, is just silly. The fantasy of management, and the fear of the rest of the people, where workers are essentially the same as 3/8" lug nuts that you can shop around for, moving from the expensive name brand brand to the discount store brand and get the same result, with the only difference being more money in your pocket, makes no sense. Most labor isn't that kind of resource. Hell, most RESOURCES aren't that kind of resource.

 

[judasmachine]

it will end when no one in america has a regular job, and are temporarily employed as consultants on how to outsource the rest of the american effort.