More on US military raping children in Abu Ghraib

[conjur]

Originally posted by: NightCrawler
I'm still shell shocked that the who thing happened. I just don't understand who was in charge of the military over there that they decided this was OK.

Uh....Rumsfeld and Gen. Sanchez for starters.

 

[DeeKnow]

not condoning anything done / being done at that infamous prison, but all the whining and hand-wringing is freaking me out a little bit.... what the hell do ppl think happens in war??? nothing about war is pretty or legal or pleasant. sh1t like that has happened for centuries and will continue to happen... there is no such thing as a clean war.

if the US had lost that war (or indeed any other war it took part in), you don't think the home boys would be getting buggered in the foreign prisons?? and i can assure you there would be no pictures leaking out of those prisons...

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: DeeKnow
not condoning anything done / being done at that infamous prison, but all the whining and hand-wringing is freaking me out a little bit.... what the hell do ppl think happens in war??? nothing about war is pretty or legal or pleasant. sh1t like that has happened for centuries and will continue to happen... there is no such thing as a clean war.

if the US had lost that war (or indeed any other war it took part in), you don't think the home boys would be getting buggered in the foreign prisons?? and i can assure you there would be no pictures leaking out of those prisons...

Oh, because you think it may happen to our boys that it's ok for us to ignore the Geneva Conventions? The only thing you can expect to happen by violating the Geneva Conventions is that our troops will be abused if they are captured.

Whatever happened to standing up for American values and morals? Whatever happened to taking the high road and not becoming that which we despise?

 

[Klixxer]

Conjur, is it just me or is this deja vu all over again?

One thing that you who think that the conventions are ok to break to consssider is that you do NOT get to complain when someone captures YOU and shoves a broomstick up your arse and breaks it off.

The convention was created to prevent inhumane treatment of POW's, i really don't give a FVCK what they do but we are supposed to belong to the civilized world and WE don't do that.

Or is this some new age thing? Get a broomstick up your arse and win a teddybear, i don't get it and i don't wanna win that fvckin teddybear either.

Conjur makes a very valid point, if you are going to claim the moral high ground, you need to act like humans towards POW's.

There was no question of this in Kosovo or Afghanistan, you know why? We were deplayed 3-6 not 24-48 and we enjoyed cooks and tents, we were not bored nor stressed out.

There is a reason deployment orders are short term, that the current government doeston't care doesn't change the fact that boredom and unstable psyches is the expected result.

Ask Lyndie E, ask any of them, braindead activity.

 

[tallest1]

DeeKnow,

Through the logic of some twisted conservatives on this board, I can officially label you an advocate of child molestation. Congratulations and carry that title with pride knowing that raping boys and sending them home at gun point is expected. Maybe if I were leave a high stress environment and visit you broomstick in hand you wouldn't mind if....... gawd, nevermind. Todays news has SEVERELY pissed me off. Neocons are blind as ever and/or letting these threads drop to the ground

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Klixxer
Conjur, is it just me or is this deja vu all over again?

One thing that you who think that the conventions are ok to break to consssider is that you do NOT get to complain when someone captures YOU and shoves a broomstick up your arse and breaks it off.

The convention was created to prevent inhumane treatment of POW's, i really don't give a FVCK what they do but we are supposed to belong to the civilized world and WE don't do that.

Or is this some new age thing? Get a broomstick up your arse and win a teddybear, i don't get it and i don't wanna win that fvckin teddybear either.

Conjur makes a very valid point, if you are going to claim the moral high ground, you need to act like humans towards POW's.

There was no question of this in Kosovo or Afghanistan, you know why? We were deplayed 3-6 not 24-48 and we enjoyed cooks and tents, we were not bored nor stressed out.

There is a reason deployment orders are short term, that the current government doeston't care doesn't change the fact that boredom and unstable psyches is the expected result.

Ask Lyndie E, ask any of them, braindead activity.

Exactly.

It's amazing how the Bush supporters will stoop to ever-growing depths to defend these horrific actions condoned by the Bush administration and the Pentagon (see my last post in the Iraqi Prisoner Abuse thread re:Gen. Sanchez.)

Sens. McCain and Biden were dead-on in their statements: "We must treat [the POWs] better than they deserve. We must take the high ground."

 

[DeeKnow]

Originally posted by: conjur

Oh, because you think it may happen to our boys that it's ok for us to ignore the Geneva Conventions? The only thing you can expect to happen by violating the Geneva Conventions is that our troops will be abused if they are captured.

Whatever happened to standing up for American values and morals? Whatever happened to taking the high road and not becoming that which we despise?

ummm... which values and morals and high road are you exactly referring to???

Your government has invaded another country for unknown reasons, lied repeatedly to its own citizens, stolen or colluded in stealing billions of dollars from Iraq's coffers, caused the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent civilians in Iraq, illegally holds hundreds of prisoners in Cuba without trial, and continues to bullshit its people about having made them safer... meanwhile it continues to shelter and do business with the very people who financed 9/11 and your heart bleeds for some prisoners who got buggered, simply because you think you are or should be better than them?

unfortunately, the US has already become 'that which we despise'. It pursues its selfish interests while making its own rules and showing a finger to the rest of the world. you ignore the will of the UN, refuse to accept the authority of the International court, but expect that the Geneva convention will protect you when you're looking down the wrong end of the barrel??

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: DeeKnow

Originally posted by: conjur

Oh, because you think it may happen to our boys that it's ok for us to ignore the Geneva Conventions? The only thing you can expect to happen by violating the Geneva Conventions is that our troops will be abused if they are captured.

Whatever happened to standing up for American values and morals? Whatever happened to taking the high road and not becoming that which we despise?

ummm... which values and morals and high road are you exactly referring to???

:roll:

G E N E V A     C O N V E N T I O N S

Is that clear enough? You should know about them being as Geneva is in your own country!

Your government has invaded another country for unknown reasons, lied repeatedly to its own citizens, stolen or colluded in stealing billions of dollars from Iraq's coffers, caused the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent civilians in Iraq, illegally holds hundreds of prisoners in Cuba without trial, and continues to bullshit its people about having made them safer... meanwhile it continues to shelter and do business with the very people who financed 9/11 and your heart bleeds for some prisoners who got buggered, simply because you think you are or should be better than them?

unfortunately, the US has already become 'that which we despise'. It pursues its selfish interests while making its own rules and showing a finger to the rest of the world. you ignore the will of the UN, refuse to accept the authority of the International court, but expect that the Geneva convention will protect you when you're looking down the wrong end of the barrel??

So, despite the claims of Bush that he's moral and righteous (even according to God, him/her/itself), it's ok to violate the Geneva Conventions and abuse prisoners?

 

[Yo Ma Ma]

Has anyone ever followed the standards set from the Geneva Convention? I would guess not, though some probably came closer than others and perhaps tried to follow the spirit if not the letter.

Maybe it's just too much to expect from a captive/prisoner vs. guard situation. We see abuse in our own penal system here, is it just a mindset that goes along with being a captor?

Is there a way to weed out people who would rape, sodomize, beat, starve, terryify, drown, electrocute, etc.? I would like to think so, but what would it be that we are not already doing?

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: Yo_Ma-Ma
Has anyone ever followed the standards set from the Geneva Convention? I would guess not, though some probably came closer than others and perhaps tried to follow the spirit if not the letter.

Maybe it's just too much to expect from a captive/prisoner vs. guard situation. We see abuse in our own penal system here, is it just a mindset that goes along with being a captor?

Is there a way to weed out people who would rape, sodomize, beat, starve, terryify, drown, electrocute, etc.? I would like to think so, but what would it be that we are not already doing?

Yes, the UN and NATO troops have actually held the flag high, the flag of humanity.

You are given orders, you follow orders, that is how it works, if it doesn't work, it is a leadership problem, not a problem with the individual soldiers.

See this dot? . If that is where you are told to stop, that is where you stop.

Threre are several service members in this forum, all of them will tell you the same thing.

 

[Kipper]

Originally posted by: DeeKnow

Originally posted by: conjur

Oh, because you think it may happen to our boys that it's ok for us to ignore the Geneva Conventions? The only thing you can expect to happen by violating the Geneva Conventions is that our troops will be abused if they are captured.

Whatever happened to standing up for American values and morals? Whatever happened to taking the high road and not becoming that which we despise?

ummm... which values and morals and high road are you exactly referring to???

Your government has invaded another country for unknown reasons, lied repeatedly to its own citizens, stolen or colluded in stealing billions of dollars from Iraq's coffers, caused the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent civilians in Iraq, illegally holds hundreds of prisoners in Cuba without trial, and continues to bullshit its people about having made them safer... meanwhile it continues to shelter and do business with the very people who financed 9/11 and your heart bleeds for some prisoners who got buggered, simply because you think you are or should be better than them?

unfortunately, the US has already become 'that which we despise'. It pursues its selfish interests while making its own rules and showing a finger to the rest of the world. you ignore the will of the UN, refuse to accept the authority of the International court, but expect that the Geneva convention will protect you when you're looking down the wrong end of the barrel??

I'd like to remind you that the United States is not the only power that routinely ignores UN resolutions and/or the authority of the ICC/World Court, etc. Many other nations do so for the precise reason that these IO's are toothless and powerless. The ICC is controlled by the Security Council, which also controls much of the actual part of the UN with any mettle. The Security Council is controlled, in turn, by those members with veto - so here we are again.

 

[Thump553]

I would not leap to conclusions based upon one witness statement contained in the investigation report. It's possible that it's true but I'd like to see the evidence developed in an orderly manner rather than speculate upon it.

Frankly, given the very anti-gay bias of our military forces, both as institutional policy and by most of the members thereof, it strikes me as extremely unlikely that one soldier would be photographing another soldier participating in a homosexual rape. Stranger things have happened, but right now my BS detector is going off.

 

[spike29]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: spike29

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Phokus
Someone needs to 'liberate' us from Bush's terror.

Vote Kerry/Edwards 😉

That's the only other option to getting Bush out. And it's not too terribly bad of an option.

Let's just all keep our fingers crossed that a great moderate candidate comes out in 2008.

Yea! that's a great idea.
Why not just cut the head off to get rid of the headache?

1) Learn how to edit/quote
2) Your analogy is completely ridiculous

I didn't see a need to waste space when any simple minded person could figure out where the response was directed, oops! you already did.
I'll try harder next time.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: DeeKnow

unfortunately, the US has already become 'that which we despise'. It pursues its selfish interests while making its own rules and showing a finger to the rest of the world. you ignore the will of the UN, refuse to accept the authority of the International court, but expect that the Geneva convention will protect you when you're looking down the wrong end of the barrel??

This is sort of funny, since Switzerland is becoming what the world despises - a country on the brink of genocide with vast xenophobia, racism, and discrimination. That's what you get when a country that supports slogans such as "The Swiss are becoming Negroes" and equates all immigrants with being criminals.

Your standards for despising something is pretty low. True hatred and evil is something to be despised. Not petty squabbles.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Yes, the UN and NATO troops have actually held the flag high, the flag of humanity.

You are given orders, you follow orders, that is how it works, if it doesn't work, it is a leadership problem, not a problem with the individual soldiers.

See this dot? . If that is where you are told to stop, that is where you stop.

Threre are several service members in this forum, all of them will tell you the same thing.

Tell that to the people that have experienced torture, rape, murder, child prostitution, weapons smuggling, etc. under UN troops. That's such a ridiculous thing to say, it's like saying US forces have always held the flag high with compassion and humanity. Anomalies happen. If anyone talks as if nothing happens with UN missions then that person is a joke. Atrocities in the UN aoccur without a doubt and it's well documented. The only reason we don't hear about is because it's not as a sticky political situation, not in the spotlight. Don't get me wrong, it's good that it's in the spotlight. But, nobody cares about Belgians roasting a Somalian boy over a fire because nobody cares about Africa in the news. Child prostitution among UN troops is common.

While I applaud what the UN peacekeepers do, they haven't always held the flag high. You are talking as if they're perfect.

Soldiers aren't robots nor are they perfect.

 

[Gaard]

I can't believe there appears to be some who *shrug* at this news, like it's something to be expected.




And NightCrawler, are you serious? You don't know who's in charge of our military?

 

[LightRider]

Those soldiers were just defending Americans from male teenage terrorists. Anyone not willing to sodomize any suspect is with the terrorists. We must learn from our great leader Bush the Second and realize that this is not an ordinary war, but one that requires the raping of hundreds, if not thousands, of terrorist suspects.
-Possible future Limbaugh quote.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Gaard
I can't believe there appears to be some who *shrug* at this news, like it's something to be expected.

I wouldn't say that people should *shrug* at this news, but something like the torture/abuse of prisoners really shouldn't have been a great shock, IMO. Now children should be far more unsettling (is this story confirmed?), but still not completely shocking.

 

[InfectedMushroom]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Gaard
I can't believe there appears to be some who *shrug* at this news, like it's something to be expected.

I wouldn't say that people should *shrug* at this news, but something like the torture/abuse of prisoners really shouldn't have been a great shock, IMO. Now children should be far more unsettling (is this story confirmed?), but still not completely shocking.

how can you fvcking say that torturing prisoners should not be a shock?
it is breaking the Geneva Convention. it is a human rights abuse. it is against everything that a democratic, open society like the US stands for.

are you really that dumb? seriously

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: InfectedMushroom

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Gaard
I can't believe there appears to be some who *shrug* at this news, like it's something to be expected.

I wouldn't say that people should *shrug* at this news, but something like the torture/abuse of prisoners really shouldn't have been a great shock, IMO. Now children should be far more unsettling (is this story confirmed?), but still not completely shocking.

how can you fvcking say that torturing prisoners should not be a shock?
it is breaking the Geneva Convention. it is a human rights abuse. it is against everything that a democratic, open society like the US stands for.

are you really that dumb? seriously

From past history. It happens. And I'm not even talking about non democratic non open societies. Belgium's UN soldiers torturing Somalian children was brought up earlier. You can go to Canadians, Italians, etc. torturing, murdering, raping people. Yeah, sounds fairly similar to this very situation with Abu Ghraib in Iraq.

I suppose that I am more critical of human nature than most. I don't expect much at all. So no, I'm not really that dumb. I'm just more aware of the past and less optimistic about the quality of the average person in these situations. People should really start reading the news - you would be shocked to learn what is happening and has happened around the world.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Has the veracity of this story been confirmed?

Considering the journalist who made the allegations (he's the one who originally uncovered the abu ghraib torture scandal, as well as stuff like the my lai massacre), there's a very good chance it's true. Unfortunately, the pentagon is withholding a lot of this evidence. I have a bad feeling this is going to get swept under the rug in order to avoid more embarrassment.

 

[DeeKnow]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

This is sort of funny, since Switzerland is becoming what the world despises - a country on the brink of genocide with vast xenophobia, racism, and discrimination. That's what you get when a country that supports slogans such as "The Swiss are becoming Negroes" and equates all immigrants with being criminals.

Your standards for despising something is pretty low. True hatred and evil is something to be despised. Not petty squabbles.

uh uhhh .... I see that you are a little confused (deluded?) .. not sure which country you are confusing Switzerland with, but pretty sure you've been getting your info from Faux News or some such...

Xenophobia and genocide? Jesus...are you smoking something ????? :disgust:

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: DeeKnow

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

This is sort of funny, since Switzerland is becoming what the world despises - a country on the brink of genocide with vast xenophobia, racism, and discrimination. That's what you get when a country that supports slogans such as "The Swiss are becoming Negroes" and equates all immigrants with being criminals.

Your standards for despising something is pretty low. True hatred and evil is something to be despised. Not petty squabbles.

uh uhhh .... I see that you are a little confused (deluded?) .. not sure which country you are confusing Switzerland with, but pretty sure you've been getting your info from Faux News or some such...

Xenophobia and genocide? Jesus...are you smoking something ????? :disgust:

I am talking about Switzerland. You must not follow the news in your own country. Must be great to live in a country with ethnicity-based citizenship and large racist political parties. :roll:

What's happening there is to be despised. Abu Ghraib is to be despised. The things you listed are very trivial and petty.

 

[Amused]

You know, folks... this is exactly how the child molestation hysteria of the 80s got started.

I would be very critical of these accounts unless, and until, corroborating evidence for them was found.

Remember, these are people with a beef against the US.

 

[DeeKnow]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

I am talking about Switzerland. You must not follow the news in your own country. Must be great to live in a country with ethnicity-based citizenship and large racist political parties. :roll:

What's happening there is to be despised. Abu Ghraib is to be despised. The things you listed are very trivial and petty.

oh man... you seriously need some help....

quit smoking whatever it is you have been smoking

ethnicity-based citizenship? did you just invent that ???