More of the Truth from Clark?

[CADsortaGUY]

"I tremendously admire, and I think we all should, the great work done by our commander-in-chief, our president, George Bush." -Quote from Jan. 22, 2002.

Well...well...well...Is this the last nail in the coffin of Clarks run? Or is pulling out of Iowa the last nail? Maybe Clark should pull out and run as an Independant because I'm sure the Democrat base won't be energized to get totally behind this guy.

CkG

PS - I wonder why none of the other news outlets are running a story about this? Just the Post as far as I can tell. Maybe that's why no one has brought this second video up yet.

 

[DealMonkey]

Oh yeah, I guess that was before that stupid move Bush pulled by going into Iraq. Even I would have said something similar back in Jan 2002. :Q

 

[tnitsuj]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
"I tremendously admire, and I think we all should, the great work done by our commander-in-chief, our president, George Bush." -Quote from Jan. 22, 2002.

Well...well...well...Is this the last nail in the coffin of Clarks run? Or is pulling out of Iowa the last nail? Maybe Clark should pull out and run as an Independant because I'm sure the Democrat base won't be energized to get totally behind this guy.

CkG

PS - I wonder why none of the other news outlets are running a story about this? Just the Post as far as I can tell. Maybe that's why no one has brought this second video up yet.

That qoute among others was in the news some weeks ago when Clark first became a candidate. BTW that was after the Afghanistan campaign which went swimmingly and before the Iraq thing really took off.

Why don't you let the Democrats decide who they want to "get Energized" behind? You obviously won't vote for any of thier candidates.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: tnitsuj

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
"I tremendously admire, and I think we all should, the great work done by our commander-in-chief, our president, George Bush." -Quote from Jan. 22, 2002.

Well...well...well...Is this the last nail in the coffin of Clarks run? Or is pulling out of Iowa the last nail? Maybe Clark should pull out and run as an Independant because I'm sure the Democrat base won't be energized to get totally behind this guy.

CkG

PS - I wonder why none of the other news outlets are running a story about this? Just the Post as far as I can tell. Maybe that's why no one has brought this second video up yet.

That qoute among others was in the news some weeks ago when Clark first became a candidate. BTW that was after the Afghanistan campaign which went swimmingly and before the Iraq thing really took off.

Why don't you let the Democrats decide who they want to "get Energized" behind? You obviously won't vote for any of thier candidates.

Just trying to keep you guys informed of the news

And yes I can opine on how the Democrats are reacting - and it doesn't look like Clark will be that guy for the core of the Democrat voters.

CkG

 

[PainTrain]

It doesn't help tha that he has guys like you taking the wind out of his sails through false logic and baseless accusations. I think DealMonkey gave an excellent examlpe above in pointing out the fact that the comments were made in reference to the war on terrorism up to that point. Up to that point, Afghanistan was being rid of the Taliban and Al Qaida quite successfuly which was widely accepted as a haven for the terrorism associated with 9/11. Fast forawrd to March 2003, Bush completely ABANDONS Afghanistan and allows the friggin return of the Taliban and arbitrarily launches an all out invasion on Iraq because its there! Understandably, Clark, AND MANY OTHERS, are percieving our Pres in a totally differnt light. Clark, like the rest of us, was sold on the war by faulty, baseless information that the Bush admin heralded as "a smoking gun." Now they blame that lie on our Intelliegence agencies, taking the high road as usual. Clark is not indicisive based upon how he regarded Bush a year ago compared to how he regards him now. If anything I would call him pragmatic and honest for recognizing the madness that is this Presidency.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: PainTrain
It doesn't help tha that he has guys like you taking the wind out of his sails through false logic and baseless accusations. I think DealMonkey gave an excellent examlpe above in pointing out the fact that the comments were made in reference to the war on terrorism up to that point. Up to that point, Afghanistan was being rid of the Taliban and Al Qaida quite successfuly which was widely accepted as a haven for the terrorism associated with 9/11. Fast forawrd to March 2003, Bush completely ABANDONS Afghanistan and allows the friggin return of the Taliban and arbitrarily launches an all out invasion on Iraq because its there! Understandably, Clark, AND MANY OTHERS, are percieving our Pres in a totally differnt light. Clark, like the rest of us, was sold on the war by faulty, baseless information that the Bush admin heralded as "a smoking gun." Now they blame that lie on our Intelliegence agencies, taking the high road as usual. Clark is not indicisive based upon how he regarded Bush a year ago compared to how he regards him now. If anything I would call him pragmatic and honest for recognizing the madness that is this Presidency.

Sure, whatever you guys say. You can't bash him - I understand that - it's politics, because if he does win the nod - you have to support him. Same goes for the rest of the "candidates". It's fun to watch though...all the excuses and "yeah but" denials.

Oh, this next year is going to be fun to watch

CkG

 

[PainTrain]

CAD, try to take this seriosuly for a moment. You've said yourself that you don't agree with several things that Bush has done, what makes that so different then Clark?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: PainTrain
CAD, try to take this seriosuly for a moment. You've said yourself that you don't agree with several things that Bush has done, what makes that so different then Clark?

And I comment on them. So? Does that mean I can't comment on what the "other side" has to offer? He could (accidentally) become president you know. I want to make sure you guys know who you are picking...just in case. See, I'm stuck in a state that only allows democrats to vote in the primaries and we have quite the radical bunch here in Iowa(nowhere close to the likes of this forum though). I do take politics seriously but I find it amusing that people come and defend Clark when he's not their choice. From reading the replies so far - they aren't rabid defenses, so that leads me to believe that you're just protecting "your kind" instead of actually defending the guy. Heck - both sides do it - I understand that, it's just amusing. It's doubly amusing that this "front runner" wasn't even a registered democrat(which he "mispoke/lied about) and has been seen heaping praise on this Administration twice. I just hope the primary voters know what they are getting into.

I have other reasons that I think Clark's candidacy is funny but those are more along the lines of who is really in control and I don't get into conspiracy theories much as they can't be proven or disproven. I do have a hunch though, as I'm sure alot of people do.

He should run as an independant - that's my take on Clark.

CkG

 

[LunarRay]

Caddy is mad cuz Clark shuns Iowa and will instead play BlackJack in Vegas or something..
If Clark ran against Clinton in '96 I think you'd have voted for him.. now wouldn't you have..

 

[DealMonkey]

Oh I don't know Cad, you're taking one quote and putting a nail in Clark's coffin over it? That seems a bit of an over-reaction to me. My only point was that in Jan '02 I was pretty pleased with the war on terrorism too. I guess take that for what it's worth. Is Clark perfect? Of course not. All of 'em have their problems. Of course.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Caddy is mad cuz Clark shuns Iowa and will instead play BlackJack in Vegas or something..
If Clark ran against Clinton in '96 I think you'd have voted for him.. now wouldn't you have..

Me vote for Clark in 96? Umm...probably not if his stances on the issues(that we know of so far) are the way they are. You see, he's got issues....ones that he won't tell us about:Q

DM - I posed the nail in the coffin question - yes. To me it just doesn't seem like he's going to be able to sustain the vote with the core democrat voters, especially with him on tape praising Bush(twice). Even Swimmer Kennedy knows better than to praise a Republican...because he knows it'll come back to bite him on the ass. Thus my assessment that Clark is doesn't stand a chance at the Dem nod(unless Dean or the rest trip up really bad) so he should have ran as an independant.

CkG

 

[PainTrain]

We're just from two totally different camps, CAD. But Something tells me you've probably noticed that by now Personally, I don't take Clarks willingness to praise the Bush administration as any kind of back peddling or double talk. The timing speaks for itself. That being said, if anything he he transcended partisan politics to offer encouragement to the white house in a time that may have justified it. It don't find that reprehensible by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, his ability to walk the moderate line makes him appealing to the Dem vote because that's where the swing voters get "swung." Democrats will be Democrats and Republicans wil be Republicans, but the swing swing votes is what will win this election just as it did the last time around. THe only thing I would like to see from Clark is some willingness to defend the baseless remarks that've been flying around about him because the spin is actually having an effect on peoples perception of him. Just like you've done on this thread, people have labled him as "indicisive" for his remarks about the president but as I have illustrated several times those assertions are illogical and senseless. Hopefully it won't totally comprimise his candidacy, but if it does, it means it was weak to begin with.

 

[sMiLeYz]

"I tremendously admire, and I think we all should, the great work done by our commander-in-chief, our president, George Bush." -Quote from Jan. 22, 2002.

Yeah I didn't I think he would fvck up so badly then either.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
"I tremendously admire, and I think we all should, the great work done by our commander-in-chief, our president, George Bush." -Quote from Jan. 22, 2002.

Well...well...well...Is this the last nail in the coffin of Clarks run? Or is pulling out of Iowa the last nail? Maybe Clark should pull out and run as an Independant because I'm sure the Democrat base won't be energized to get totally behind this guy.

CkG

PS - I wonder why none of the other news outlets are running a story about this? Just the Post as far as I can tell. Maybe that's why no one has brought this second video up yet.

Give it a rest already. The other news outlets aren't running stories because it's not news. Most people were supportive in the months following September 11. People started coming to their senses after we saw Bush-lite exploit this tragedy for political gain and watched him lose his focus on terrorism for an ill-advised and unjust crusade against Iraq.

As far as Clark's "heaping praise" on Bush and his minions, what are you smoking? Two positive statements is "heaping praise"? LOL. I'm on the record as making three (3) positive comments about him in this forum. I don't think anybody is going to accuse me of "heaping praise" on Bush-lite.

You're just blowing smoke because you know Clark is likely the strongest contender against the Bush regime. Clark has bona-fide military credentials as well as real, successful leadership experience and foreign policy experience. That makes him strongest right where the Bush political machine will try to slander most of the other Democrats. They can't do that with Clark. This means they have nothing other than personal attacks and the same old double-speak Republican rhetoric. "Tax and spend" Democrats? Hah, look at Bush's record deficits.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
"I tremendously admire, and I think we all should, the great work done by our commander-in-chief, our president, George Bush." -Quote from Jan. 22, 2002.

Well...well...well...Is this the last nail in the coffin of Clarks run? Or is pulling out of Iowa the last nail? Maybe Clark should pull out and run as an Independant because I'm sure the Democrat base won't be energized to get totally behind this guy.

CkG

PS - I wonder why none of the other news outlets are running a story about this? Just the Post as far as I can tell. Maybe that's why no one has brought this second video up yet.

Give it a rest already. The other news outlets aren't running stories because it's not news. Most people were supportive in the months following September 11. People started coming to their senses after we saw Bush-lite exploit this tragedy for political gain and watched him lose his focus on terrorism for an ill-advised and unjust crusade against Iraq.

As far as Clark's "heaping praise" on Bush and his minions, what are you smoking? Two positive statements is "heaping praise"? LOL. I'm on the record as making three (3) positive comments about him in this forum. I don't think anybody is going to accuse me of "heaping praise" on Bush-lite.

You're just blowing smoke because you know Clark is likely the strongest contender against the Bush regime. Clark has bona-fide military credentials as well as real, successful leadership experience and foreign policy experience. That makes him strongest right where the Bush political machine will try to slander most of the other Democrats. They can't do that with Clark. This means they have nothing other than personal attacks and the same old double-speak Republican rhetoric. "Tax and spend" Democrats? Hah, look at Bush's record deficits.

BUahahahaha!!!

It's not news? Sure...because you don't think it is - right?
Saying "tremedously admire" isn't heaping praise? People don't just throw admiration around - do they? especially "tremedous praise"?
Sure he may have changed his tune on Bush, but like I said - it still won't play well to the core Dem voters. They want a hater like Dean - not some guy who "just got it".

I'm not blowing smoke any more than you people do with all you Bush bashing rhetoric. You can continue to build him up if you want but it still isn't going to win him the nod. Its interestigly funny to hear all the excuses made for him though - you just might mold him into a Democrat yet.
Oh, and BTW - Clark wouldn't stand a chance against Bush and I do believe that Dean is the strongest contender for the nod. He has been building a wide base of support where Clark came in with a splash but will likely lose speed - especially since he won't get the press of the Iowa caucus and doesn't have the money power of Dean yet. If Dean comes out of Iowa in a commanding position - Clark doesn't stand a chance.

all IMO of course. You guys play "Republican politics" so I get to opine on the Democrat candidates, so get used to it - i'm not going to let it rest. IF hell freezes over then one of these candidates will become the President - I think I'm more than entitled to post my view of their politics.

CkG

 

[JohnnyMcJohnnyJohn]

CAD, that's alot of words for such an irrelevent concern. I mean seriously, you're bashing this guy because he supported his CiC during a time that I think support wasn't out of place like I consider it to be now. I'm a democrat, and I have no issue whatsoever with what Clark said. If I were to withhold my vote for him when the time comes, it certainly wouldn't be for this idiotic argument.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: JohnnyMcJohnnyJohn
CAD, that's alot of words for such an irrelevent concern. I mean seriously, you're bashing this guy because he supported his CiC during a time that I think support wasn't out of place like I consider it to be now. I'm a democrat, and I have no issue whatsoever with what Clark said. If I were to withhold my vote for him when the time comes, it certainly wouldn't be for this idiotic argument.

Good - you can not vote for him as you wish. To me though, if I was looking for a candidate - I'd want one who didn't just suddenly "wake up", because I'd have to ask "what else is he asleep on"
I am most definately concerned about who the Dems pick - because as I said - IF hell freezes over - they might be my President.
I'm just going by what he's said and what positions he's taken. If I was a Democrat(God forbid) I sure wouldn't be voting for him. I'd pick someone along the lines of Kerry or even maybe Lieberman. But you're right - I hope none of them win, but I can and will point out their percieved errors just like you guys do with Bush.
None of them will recieve my vote because they don't stand for what I believe in or will take positions on the issues that I want my President to take.

CkG

 

[ElFenix]

this is a classic ad hominem tu quoque

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
this is a classic ad hominem tu quoque

Nope - it's just classic politics

tit for tat, what comes around goes around, etc.

I see a forum full of Bush bashing - what's one that deals with a democrat?

Politics...American politics.

CkG

 

[SuperTool]

So what? It's January 2002, few months after 9/11. War in Afganistan was admirable until Dubya lost interest and went for Saddam. So it's not suprising to me that Clark supported Bush in 2002, just shows how unpartisan he is. It's been almost 2 years since. There is nothing left to admire about Bush's "leadership." His ratings went from 80's to 40's, so Clark isn't the only one who changed his mind.

 

[SuperTool]

Looks like Clark is one of 40 % of Americans who changed their mind about Bush.
So no big deal.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: ElFenix
this is a classic ad hominem tu quoque

Nope - it's just classic politics

tit for tat, what comes around goes around, etc.

I see a forum full of Bush bashing - what's one that deals with a democrat?

Politics...American politics.

CkG

Heh, the difference is, Bush bashers got legitimate reasons and your reason for bashing Clark is just sad.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: ElFenix
this is a classic ad hominem tu quoque

Nope - it's just classic politics

tit for tat, what comes around goes around, etc.

I see a forum full of Bush bashing - what's one that deals with a democrat?

Politics...American politics.

CkG

Description of Ad Hominem Tu Quoque

This fallacy is committed when it is concluded that a person's claim is false because 1) it is inconsistent with something else a person has said or 2) what a person says is inconsistent with her actions. This type of "argument" has the following form:

1. Person A makes claim X.
2. Person B asserts that A's actions or past claims are inconsistent with the truth of claim X.
3. Therefore X is false.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: ElFenix
this is a classic ad hominem tu quoque

Nope - it's just classic politics

tit for tat, what comes around goes around, etc.

I see a forum full of Bush bashing - what's one that deals with a democrat?

Politics...American politics.

CkG

Description of Ad Hominem Tu Quoque

This fallacy is committed when it is concluded that a person's claim is false because 1) it is inconsistent with something else a person has said or 2) what a person says is inconsistent with her actions. This type of "argument" has the following form:

1. Person A makes claim X.
2. Person B asserts that A's actions or past claims are inconsistent with the truth of claim X.
3. Therefore X is false.

Exactly - like I said - Politics...American Politics.

CkG

PS - "Nope" wasn't to mean no to your discription - it shouldn't have been there