More news about the dubious efficacy of multi-vitamins

[StageLeft]

Link

Not surprising. There is little in the way of actual real data to show that vitamin supplementation in normal, otherwise healthy people is of any significant benefit. I personally stopped taking them a while ago because even at their nominal cost, when I weigh the lack of evidence promoting their efficacy with not-that-hard-to-find evidence that excess dosage can increase the chances of having problems, I simply don't see a compelling reason to supplement.

 

[Deeko]

I'm not surprised.

 

[irishScott]

Umm, the study only looked at "multivitamins". There's a shitload of multivitamins out there with extreme variances in ingredients and dosage. It's been scientifically proven that, among other things, calcium and Vitamin D supplementation have very valid health benefits for most people. I take a multivitamin with calcium and vitamin D in it, as well as a separate Calcium/Vitamin D supplement. Obviously they're doing nothing. :roll:

Obviously getting your vitamins from food and such is ideal, but for those of us who don't have the time/don't care enough to eat a perfect diet vitamins could be extremely useful.

As for excess dosage causing problems, once again, depends on the vitamin. Excess Vitamin B12 can do next to nothing except at extreme levels. Excess iron (meaning any iron not obtained in food) can increase a guy's chance of prostate cancer (we don't bleed chronically). You can't just lump everything in one category and say "vitamin supplementation is a waste".

 

[MetalMat]

I dont know, that is one thing I will just take cause it makes sense to me.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: irishScott
Umm, the study only looked at "multivitamins". There's a shitload of multivitamins out there with extreme variances in ingredients and dosage. It's been scientifically proven that, among other things, calcium and Vitamin D supplementation have very valid health benefits for most people. I take a multivitamin with calcium and vitamin D in it, as well as a separate Calcium/Vitamin D supplement. Obviously they're doing nothing. :roll:

Obviously getting your vitamins from food and such is ideal, but for those of us who don't have the time/don't care enough to eat a perfect diet vitamins could be extremely useful.

As for excess dosage causing problems, once again, depends on the vitamin. Excess Vitamin B12 can do next to nothing except at extreme levels. Excess iron (meaning any iron not obtained in food) can increase a guy's chance of prostate cancer (we don't bleed chronically). You can't just lump everything in one category and say "vitamin supplementation is a waste".

I didn't really say it's a waste, just that there's very little compelling reason for most people to bother.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: irishScott
Umm, the study only looked at "multivitamins". There's a shitload of multivitamins out there with extreme variances in ingredients and dosage. It's been scientifically proven that, among other things, calcium and Vitamin D supplementation have very valid health benefits for most people. I take a multivitamin with calcium and vitamin D in it, as well as a separate Calcium/Vitamin D supplement. Obviously they're doing nothing. :roll:

Obviously getting your vitamins from food and such is ideal, but for those of us who don't have the time/don't care enough to eat a perfect diet vitamins could be extremely useful.

As for excess dosage causing problems, once again, depends on the vitamin. Excess Vitamin B12 can do next to nothing except at extreme levels. Excess iron (meaning any iron not obtained in food) can increase a guy's chance of prostate cancer (we don't bleed chronically). You can't just lump everything in one category and say "vitamin supplementation is a waste".

You know, this is gonna sound weird (because it did to me when I first read it), but I've read research saying that lifetime high supplementation or high average serum calcium levels actually promote things like osteoporosis and bone degradation in the long run. It didn't make sense to me and I even e-mailed my physiology professor about it when we were going over bone formation and breakdown, but he never got back to me.

 

[imported_Imp]

I've been eating a lot more healthier in the last year, so mybe I'll start alternating on vitamins or splitting them.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
You know, this is gonna sound weird (because it did to me when I first read it), but I've read research saying that lifetime high supplementation or high average serum calcium levels actually promote things like osteoporosis and bone degradation in the long run. It didn't make sense to me and I even e-mailed my physiology professor about it when we were going over bone formation and breakdown, but he never got back to me.

I think it's a simple matter of what your body was designed to process. It wasn't designed to process little pellets packed with vitamins, it was designed to process real food. The more stuff we can eat from the ground, the closer we're getting to what our bodies were designed to process. Like, many of us (Americans) have weight and heart problems because we eat a lot of processed food instead of natural food. Honestly, I grew up never really knowing what "eating healthy" was until last year when my health circumstances changed and I began taking a more serious interest in it.

Personally, I don't believe in taking vitamins just for the sake of taking vitamins, but there are specific applications where they are needed at times. I just don't think it's wise to jump on the bandwagon just because advertising "says so". Also, I lol'd at this line in the article:

She said multivitamins may still be useful "as a form of insurance" for people with poor eating habits.

:laugh:

 

[Sust]

I imagine this study was not funded by scientology.
It's highly improbable that Americans could be malnourished given the amount of fortifications that are in all of the food and drinks we eat.
If anything, we're overnourished and fat lazy bastards.
It just so happens that obesity and heart disease are more likely to kill us in the near future than vitamin/mineral deficiency.
Unfortunately, chronic diseases like diabetes/obesity/cardiovascular disease are not something that can be solved with a pill a day.
Ok, that's not true, but amphetamines are highly addictive and its usage in weight loss is IMO medically unsafe.

No matter what the article says, I still advocate vitamins for the young, the elderly, the chronic alcoholics, and the anorexics/bulimics.
Those people might actually suffer enough from poor nutrition whereas your average overweight/under-exercised person has a very decent amount of folate, B12, iron, etc and is more likely to die in traffic.
Why dont these companies try funding vitamins for kids in 3rd world countries and see what kind of results they get.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: Sust
I imagine this study was not funded by scientology.
It's highly improbable that Americans could be malnourished given the amount of fortifications that are in all of the food and drinks we eat.
If anything, we're overnourished and fat lazy bastards.
It just so happens that obesity and heart disease are more likely to kill us in the near future than vitamin/mineral deficiency.
Unfortunately, chronic diseases like diabetes/obesity/cardiovascular disease are not something that can be solved with a pill a day.
Ok, that's not true, but amphetamines are highly addictive and its usage in weight loss is IMO medically unsafe.

No matter what the article says, I still advocate vitamins for the young, the elderly, the chronic alcoholics, and the anorexics/bulimics.
Those people might actually suffer enough from poor nutrition whereas your average overweight/under-exercised person has a very decent amount of folate, B12, iron, etc and is more likely to die in traffic.
Why dont these companies try funding vitamins for kids in 3rd world countries and see what kind of results they get.

I have to question any product that lists Aspartame and other artifical ingredients as being "healthy" and "good for you":

http://www.drsearsfamilyapprov...?type=IngredientReview

But it's probably better than nothing, if your kid's diet is Fruit Loops, Dominoes Pizza, and McDonalds

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: irishScott
Umm, the study only looked at "multivitamins". There's a shitload of multivitamins out there with extreme variances in ingredients and dosage. It's been scientifically proven that, among other things, calcium and Vitamin D supplementation have very valid health benefits for most people. I take a multivitamin with calcium and vitamin D in it, as well as a separate Calcium/Vitamin D supplement. Obviously they're doing nothing. :roll:

Obviously getting your vitamins from food and such is ideal, but for those of us who don't have the time/don't care enough to eat a perfect diet vitamins could be extremely useful.

As for excess dosage causing problems, once again, depends on the vitamin. Excess Vitamin B12 can do next to nothing except at extreme levels. Excess iron (meaning any iron not obtained in food) can increase a guy's chance of prostate cancer (we don't bleed chronically). You can't just lump everything in one category and say "vitamin supplementation is a waste".

I didn't really say it's a waste, just that there's very little compelling reason for most people to bother.

Also alot of compelling scientific research that everyone including weightlifters only need .25g protein/lb bodyweight to a maximum of .5 and everything above that you are shitting out.


Anyway, after I started taking a multivitamin about a week later I noticed my energy levels were through the roof without much other change. I probably had a deficiency somewhere who knows, but as always with every study, your results may vary.

 

[njdevilsfan87]

Also alot of compelling scientific research that everyone including weightlifters only need .25g protein/lb bodyweight to a maximum of .5 and everything above that you are shitting out.

Even if so, a protein supplement makes sense. You take it in liquid form right after weight-lifting, thus getting the protein to your muscles asap. Or you can attempt to something like chicken after lifting, and if you manage not to puke, it'll still take time to digest and get the protein to where it's needed.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: irishScott
Umm, the study only looked at "multivitamins". There's a shitload of multivitamins out there with extreme variances in ingredients and dosage. It's been scientifically proven that, among other things, calcium and Vitamin D supplementation have very valid health benefits for most people. I take a multivitamin with calcium and vitamin D in it, as well as a separate Calcium/Vitamin D supplement. Obviously they're doing nothing. :roll:

Obviously getting your vitamins from food and such is ideal, but for those of us who don't have the time/don't care enough to eat a perfect diet vitamins could be extremely useful.

As for excess dosage causing problems, once again, depends on the vitamin. Excess Vitamin B12 can do next to nothing except at extreme levels. Excess iron (meaning any iron not obtained in food) can increase a guy's chance of prostate cancer (we don't bleed chronically). You can't just lump everything in one category and say "vitamin supplementation is a waste".

I didn't really say it's a waste, just that there's very little compelling reason for most people to bother.

Also alot of compelling scientific research that everyone including weightlifters only need .25g protein/lb bodyweight to a maximum of .5 and everything above that you are shitting out.


Anyway, after I started taking a multivitamin about a week later I noticed my energy levels were through the roof without much other change. I probably had a deficiency somewhere who knows, but as always with every study, your results may vary.

You don't "shit out" energy. Present this research. Protein is utilized for energy or for muscle production. Your body doesn't just let energy fall right through you.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: RichardE
Also alot of compelling scientific research that everyone including weightlifters only need .25g protein/lb bodyweight to a maximum of .5 and everything above that you are shitting out.

Link to said research?

For example, here's an article that indicates a high protein intake probably is beneficial for athletes: International Society of Sports Nutrition position stand: protein and exercise.

1) Vast research supports the contention that individuals engaged in regular exercise training require more dietary protein than sedentary individuals. 2) Protein intakes of 1.4 ? 2.0 g/kg/day for physically active individuals is not only safe, but may improve the training adaptations to exercise training. 3) When part of a balanced, nutrient-dense diet, protein intakes at this level are not detrimental to kidney function or bone metabolism in healthy, active persons. 4) While it is possible for physically active individuals to obtain their daily protein requirements through a varied, regular diet, supplemental protein in various forms are a practical way of ensuring adequate and quality protein intake for athletes. 5) Different types and quality of protein can affect amino acid bioavailability following protein supplementation. The superiority of one protein type over another in terms of optimizing recovery and/or training adaptations remains to be convincingly demonstrated. 6) Appropriately timed protein intake is an important component of an overall exercise training program, essential for proper recovery, immune function, and the growth and maintenance of lean body mass. 7) Under certain circumstances, specific amino acid supplements, such as branched-chain amino acids (BCAA's), may improve exercise performance and recovery from exercise.

And here's another relevant article: Contemporary Issues in Protein Requirements and Consumption for Resistance Trained Athletes.

In summary protein requirements appear to be elevated for strength training athletes. This increased need is attributed to enhanced oxidation rates of endogenous amino acids during exercise [27], the need for increased substrate to repair damaged muscle tissue [12], and the capacity to maintain elevated protein synthesis for greater amounts of muscle tissue [18]. Techniques utilized to measure protein requirements include nitrogen balance methods [15-17], tracer techniques [13], and performance and body composition techniques [28,29]. Nitrogen Balance techniques suggest that the protein requirements to attain zero nitrogen balance range from 1.2?2.2 grams of protein per kg of bodyweight [1,7,14,23,24,31-33].

...

It is further known that a number of other variables affect protein intake. Perhaps the most critical of these is energy intake. When an individual is in a caloric deficit, protein needs are greater than when the individual is in maintenance or a caloric surplus [34].

 

[bossman34]

A multivitamin is not meant to replace nutrients from whole food as is mentioned in the article. The thing is some irresponsible supplement companies make outrageous claims about their products based on their "research" and people completely buy into it and believe that supplements such as multivitamins will keep them healthy despite the fact that they are sedentary and otherwise eat like crap. Multivitamins can be a relatively cheap insurance policy to make sure you are getting all of the nutrients your body needs to carry out all of its cellular processes to keep you energetic and healthy in conjunction with a healthy, well balanced diet and consistent physical activity.

As far as protein, no you don't just "shit" out protein. If it is not used to build/repair muscles or other tissues it is converted into glucose or fat depending on your energy needs. Of course, some one who is more physically active (ie. athlete) is going to need a bit more protein because they are constantly breaking down and building up muscle and other tissues. Also, protein in a liquid form doesn't necessarily get to your muscles faster than a "solid" protein source such as chicken breast. In fact, as soon as you ingest a protein with all of the essential amino acids (particulalry the BCAA's - leucine, isoleucine, and valine) your body knows that it will be getting what it needs to repair muscle after a workout and will go into an anabolic state rather than a catabolic state. In addition, ingesting carbohydrates following a workout is just as important to replenish muscle glycogen stores. If you don't some of that protein you just took in will be used to replenish those stores. That is why you've probably been hearing a lot about chocolate milk being a great post workout meal because it has a good CHO-protein ratio.

 

[StageLeft]

Although energy won't sh*t out like a water soluable vitamin will pee out, RichardE's comments have been based on real studies. Most bodybuilding sources will say to have a gram of protein per lb of bodyweight, but I do know I've seen studies that show essentially the same results on just one gram per kilo. It's a hard habit to break though, for those used to protein all day long and lots of whey to get their 1 gram per lb in their body. These days I am damn sure I get a solid dose first thing in the am (invariably cereal with whey on it) and then supper. I generally get more throughout the day but won't cry myself to sleep if it's not as much as those two times. But then, I'm not a pro athlete.