More lunacy from Georgia

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chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
7,748
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I would not expect the Georgia Supreme Court to overrule the verdict or the sentence unless the trial judge made some serious errors. One of my friends just called me from Atlanta and he has prosecuted appeals to that court. He says Scalia is a bleeding heart liberal compared to three of the judges. I'm not surprised. Of course, this guy's a criminal defense lawyer, and we know how crazy they are. :)

-Robert
 

heartsurgeon

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2001
4,260
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i find it curiously consistent that the same folks who think Bush is Hitler, feel:
1) Saddam was mistreated
2) we should model our health care system after Cuba's
3) we should model our taxation system after N. Korea's
4) someone who molested a child, and has another trial pending for more deviant behavior...just isn't being treated fairly.

i suppose this must be another example of how tolerant Liberals are...for everyone except President Bush.
 

konichiwa

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,077
2
0
Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
i find it curiously consistent that the same folks who think Bush is Hitler, feel:
4) someone who molested a child, and has another trial pending for more deviant behavior...just isn't being treated fairly.

i suppose this must be another example of how tolerant Liberals are...for everyone except President Bush.

I'm just going to ignore those first three points of flamebait. An 18 year old has consentual (he was acquitted of rape and a. assault) sex with a 15 year old and you think we should just lock him up and throw away the key?
rolleye.gif
 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
7,748
0
0
Of course Janklow killed a man and got 100 days in jail. Hmmm....

What's wrong with that picture?

-Robert
 

heartsurgeon

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2001
4,260
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i would have favored a different (stiffer) sentence for Janklow.

i actually believe that this kid in Georgia will get some sort of Pardon or sentence reduction at some point, but that scaring the crap out of him now may save him from a worse fate in the future if he persists in this misogynistic manner. what i really object to is the race baiting (trying to call the outcome of the trial race based), and the failure on the part of many media sources to quote the entire AP story, including the pending trial, and previous complaints about unsaviory behavior.

he was 18 when he boinked the 15 year old....he should have known better.

according to the New York Times, Dixon has admitted to previous deviant behavior..
"We believe her story, we believe she was raped," said District Attorney Leigh E. Patterson. Mr. Dixon, she said, had been reprimanded twice before for inappropriate sexual behavior ? once, for exposing himself in class and once for putting his hands down the pants of a female student. In both cases, Mr. Dixon said, he was goofing around.

yikes! he thinks that kind of behaviour is goofing around? Howmany of you liberals have exposed yourselves in high school, or put your hands down somebodies pants when you "goofing around"

finally..to the canard that this was "consensual sex" and the girl was a"slut"
"The girl, who worked as a part-time custodian, said Mr. Dixon attacked her as she cleaned an empty classroom trailer."
"The student, a sophomore, told investigators she had been a virgin."

"Although a jury acquitted Mr. Dixon of rape, sexual battery, aggravated assault and false imprisonment, they found him guilty of statutory rape, a misdemeanor, and because of the girl's injuries, the more serious charge of aggravated child molestation.

i'm surprised they didn't find him guilty of rape and sexual battery.
Besides, he's going to be found guilty of battery (legal definition of battery is "unwanted touching") with that hands down the pants incident that he's admitted to...his motivations don't matter..it's the "unwanted touching" that defines battery.....

he's in a lot of trouble, and all the race baiting in the world isn't going to save him.
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
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i actually believe that this kid in Georgia will get some sort of Pardon or sentence reduction at some point, but that scaring the crap out of him now may save him from a worse fate in the future if he persists in this misogynistic manner. what i really object to is the race baiting (trying to call the outcome of the trial race based), and the failure on the part of many media sources to quote the entire AP story, including the pending trial, and previous complaints about unsaviory behavior.

he was 18 when he boinked the 15 year old....he should have known better.
You can scare people without jailing them for a decade. If the reports from the school are accurate then his previous behavior should have led to a lengthy suspension including kicking him off the football team. Misogyny refers to a hatred of women. Dixon could easily have a lack of respect for women without hating them. For instance, I have zero respect for President Bush but I certainly don't hate him.

The inconsistencies in the jury decision (NOT rape, NOT assault, NOT false imprisonment, NOT sexual battery) but YES for a charge that explicitly requires use of force. Furthermore, the jury is apparently unanimously opposed to the sentence that followed the judgment. There's no ambiguity with regards to jury's desire to punish his behavior but unlike the prosecution . . . you don't hear any sexual deviant, predator, et al comments from the jury . . . you only hear it from the prick prosecutor.

The misdemeanor statutory rape charge likely earns him time served, many years of probation, loss of the Vandy scholarship, and a permanent mark (maybe) as a convicted sex offender. He's allegedly intelligent and hardworking so he could still become a productive member of society after college (w/ or w/o football). As it stands now, GA pays for his incarceration for a decade . . . and what are the odds he learns proper respect for women in there?!

Like I said . . . more lunacy in GA.
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
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) we should model our health care system after Cuba's
Hmm, spend much less but a much healthier population . . . maybe. I know you, me, and essentially every other physician in America will make far less . . . but isn't that worth it to make our society healthier. I mean why else would someone go into medicine?!
 

heartsurgeon

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2001
4,260
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Dixon could easily have a lack of respect for women without hating them. For instance, I have zero respect for President Bush but I certainly don't hate him.
Most creative segue i've ever seen, from a child rapist to the President in one sentence...Bravo!
the jury is apparently unanimously opposed to the sentence that followed the judgment
Link?
you don't hear any sexual deviant, predator, et al comments from the jury
Gee..what do you call conviction for statutory rape and aggravated child molestation...
Hmm, spend much less but a much healthier population . . . maybe.
HAHAHHAHA, their "healthy" because of all that time they get to spend outdoors in rafts trying to escape, and because you live longer if your in a state of relative starvation...
 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
29,470
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What's wrong with touching children? I mean, come on now...If he wants to touch some children now and then, let him touch some children...
 

Orsorum

Lifer
Dec 26, 2001
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Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
i find it curiously consistent that the same folks who think Bush is Hitler, feel:
1) Saddam was mistreated
2) we should model our health care system after Cuba's
3) we should model our taxation system after N. Korea's
4) someone who molested a child, and has another trial pending for more deviant behavior...just isn't being treated fairly.

i suppose this must be another example of how tolerant Liberals are...for everyone except President Bush.

That's the stupidist post I've ever seen in ATPN. Congratulations.
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
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Defense side
In less than 20 minutes, the Jury found Dixon innocent of all forcible crimes, giving little or no credence to her testimony - testimony refuted by other students who said she changed her original assertion that the act was consensual due to her fear of her father, whom she believed would be extremely upset to learn that she had sexual relations with an African-American classmate.

Now here it gets really interesting
Her story did not convince Kathy Tippett, Robert Williamson or the rest of a nearly all white jury.
They acquitted Dixon of forcible rape charges and ruled the sex consensual.
"We knew it wasn't rape," says Williamson. "The pictures and her testimony, nothing added up to rape - forcible rape."
"Marcus needs to come home," says Tippett.
But the prosecution had added another charge: aggravated child molestation. Meant to address sexual predators, it applies when a child is injured during "an immoral or indecent act." The jury was told they could consider the girl's loss of virginity an injury.

They thought aggravated child molestation was just a misdemeanor, not a felony, and believed Dixon would be set free.
"I can honestly say, and talk for the other ten jurors, that we had no intention of sending him to prison for ten years," says Williamson. "We were sure he would go home that day."
"It's a mistake you have to live with every day."

How ya like 'dem apples?! Funny how a jury could be so ill-informed . . .
 

Bleep

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
3,972
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How ya like 'dem apples?! Funny how a jury could be so ill-informed
The Judge is the tryer of the law and the jury is the tryer of the facts, the instructions to the jury is that the sentence will have no bearing on the facts of the case and must not concern themself with the possible sentence when deciding the facts.
Bleep
 

Mill

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
28,558
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Originally posted by: chess9
I would not expect the Georgia Supreme Court to overrule the verdict or the sentence unless the trial judge made some serious errors. One of my friends just called me from Atlanta and he has prosecuted appeals to that court. He says Scalia is a bleeding heart liberal compared to three of the judges. I'm not surprised. Of course, this guy's a criminal defense lawyer, and we know how crazy they are. :)

-Robert

Hey, if I was this guy I'd push my appeals through the state courts REAL quick, because GA is not going to help him get a reduced sentence. Fed courts are where you will find more sympathy when contrasting them with a Southern State's Supreme court.
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
18,953
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Dozens of people packed the courtroom to hear Dixon's case, which has become controversial because he is black and the girl is white. Protesters have said Dixon would not have received such a long sentence if not for his race.
Bunk. The judge had no discretion here due to mandatory sentencing. This case is virtually identical to one in [IIRC] Wisconsin or Minnesota several years ago, except that both parties were white, the sex was consenting by the victim's admission, and the mandatory minimum sentence was 20 years. Oops, so much for the race-card arguments....

In this case, which I happened to learn of from Oprah Winfrey, who dedicated an hour-long episode to it, the boy was a high school senior (18 y.o.) and the girl was either a freshman or sophomore (15 y.o.). They had been dating for months with the knowledge of their parents, school officials, and their peers. The girl becomes pregnant, they talk of getting married, the boy and girl approach her mother about the pregancy. Mother goes ballistic, girl and mother get into a screaming match, which turns into a physical altercation with the mother slapping the girl and knocking her to the floor.

The boy becomes frightened, fearing someone is going to get hurt, he calls 911. The police respond, the mother is furious her 'little angel' is pregnant, police start asking questions, discover the girl is 15 (minor) and the boy is 18 (adult), turn it over to the prosecutor, who files statutory rape charges against the boy (by that time he turned 19).

The prosecutor decides to charge him under the state's new Felony Sexual Predator Law, which was enacted in response to a highly publicized case where a man well beyond his 30's abucted/raped/murdered a young girl after being paroled from prison. The man had numerous convictions for sexual misconduct, sexual assault, and child molestation, but kept getting paroled.

Being a statutory rape case, the defense is prohibited from even raising the issue of consent at trial, and the jury is forbidden to hear or consider testimony regarding consent, since the issue is entirely irrelevant. Basically, a slam dunk conviction, the girl is compelled to testify who got her pregnant and the boy freely admitted to police and prosecutors he was the father of the child.

Within hours of being discharged, the jury is appalled to discover it is a felony, carrying a mandatory sentence of 20 years, lifetime registration as a Sexual Predator/Offender, and Sexual Offender reporting requirement. Further, he was prohibited from having any contact with the girl or his child. All but two members of the jury speak out in opposition and start a campaign to have the conviction overturned, set aside, or pardoned by the Governor. His defense attorney immediately files motions to have the verdict set-aside, appeals, etc.

It received a lot of state and local press, a bit of national attention. The prosecutor is harshly criticized, who arrogantly snips to one reporter "I don't make the laws. If someone doesn't like the sentence for this crime, take it up with the legislature, not me", oblivious to the fact the law did not obligate him to prosecute under the more severe Sexual Predator law.

I don't remember hearing of the eventual outcome, except that the child was like two years old at the time the Winfrey episode was taped, the judge had used some arcane legal maneuver to post-pone sentencing, released the boy with court supervision pending appeal, and he was still prohibited from seeing either the girl or his child without a court-appointed supervisor present at all times.
rolleye.gif


But hey, 15 can get you a whole lot more than 20 in Montana:

Montana § 45-5-501 et seq.

Statutory Rape Defined as: Sexual intercourse with someone under age 16.

Penalty: Life imprisonment or between two and 100 years. If the victim is under age 16 and the offender is at least three years older, life imprisonment or four to 100 years.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
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www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Bleep
How ya like 'dem apples?! Funny how a jury could be so ill-informed
The Judge is the tryer of the law and the jury is the tryer of the facts, the instructions to the jury is that the sentence will have no bearing on the facts of the case and must not concern themself with the possible sentence when deciding the facts.
Bleep

Hi Bleep, you must be a Lawyer. I was talking to my Lawyer yesterday about this case and he said the exact same words.

It's a shame the Jury is Mushrooms. That brings a whole new meaning to the Prosecutors being Judge and Jury.

 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
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BS . . . the facts of the case is that the injury WAS NOT physical or even emotional . . .
But the prosecution had added another charge: aggravated child molestation. Meant to address sexual predators, it applies when a child is injured during "an immoral or indecent act." The jury was told they could consider the girl's loss of virginity an injury.
Now show that to me in the law! Consent matters and that's why GA has a SEPARATE law regulating the activity between consenting teenagers. I'm sure virginity loss happens in those cases as well.:Q
 

heartsurgeon

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2001
4,260
0
0
Hey howcome nobody is standing up for Saddam anymore these days...
Heck, I'm sure his rights are being violated as we speak by the international terrorist Rumsfeld.
 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
7,748
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BBD:

Nice find. That could be an error by the judge that the GA Supremes use to overturn the case. Was that in the instructions to the jury? Was there credible testimony that the girl was a virgin? I thougt she was a known "slut"?

This is why having a transcript of the proceedings would be critical to our understanding the case. Newspaper reporters are dumber than Bush and rarely know what is important. Gotta' know the REAL facts....

-Robert
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
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Hey howcome nobody is standing up for Saddam anymore these days...
Heck, I'm sure his rights are being violated as we speak by the international terrorist Rumsfeld.
OK now that one is just plain lame. Rumsfeld cannot be a terrorist . . . he's got cruise missiles and bombers . . . by definition he's a Freedom Fighter.
rolleye.gif
And if an innocent person is killed . . . that's collateral damage. The War on Terror (sic) is one of the few debacles that's more asinine than the lunacy in GA.
Next thing you will be arguing that Max Cleland is half the patriot of Saxby Chambliss.

Maybe nobody stands up for Saddam b/c few if any ever supported Saddam. Kinda like the Iran-Iraq war . . . many principled people said both parties sux. But last time I checked the Cheshier cat shaking his hand looked a lot like Donald Rumsfeld's twin.:Q
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
18,953
575
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The Judge is the tryer of the law and the jury is the tryer of the facts, the instructions to the jury is that the sentence will have no bearing on the facts of the case and must not concern themself with the possible sentence when deciding the facts.
What a radical departure from what the founders of the American Justice System intended and practiced for the first 50 years of American Jurisprudence, when the jury was the tryer of both the facts and the law. The judge was little more than a referee who managed or moderated the two adversarial parties and concerned himself mostly with upholding procedural integrity.

Then, those damned jurors started to do things the government frowned on, such as acquitting folks the legislature and prosecutors wanted to imprison, like instigators of popular revolts, or where the jury merely found the law to be misapplied, abused, or unjust. These were all issues that were solidly within the jury's purview...once upon a time.

That wouldn't do, of course, because you can't have "the people" thumbing their nose at the government like that! So the only remedy was to strip the jury of its purview in these matters and give it to the judge (who, being a representative of the government, is a lot easier to bring into line than citizens, who answer to no one).

There was an upside to this. Juries at the time were all white men, usually property owners, and this often meant that non-white defendants had a snowball's chance in hell of getting a fair shake. This fundamental transfer of power by judicial fiat (of debatable constitutionality) paved the way for the government to successfully prosecute many nasty folks who were criminals in every sense of the word but may otherwise have found a few sympathizers on the jury. No longer was the jury to concern itself with judging the law, but strictly whether or not the defendant is guilty of violating the letter of the law as it is written and nothing more.

But, there was also a downside. Juries at the time were all white men, usually property owners, and this meant they were usually educated about stuff like law, history, government, and humanities. While vigorous historical attention is focused on some notorious injustices, there undoubtedly were as many supremely just exercises of broad jury purview that came to pass without much attention.

Cases just like this, where the law is not only being misapplied to circumstances it was not intended, but where the penalties are so vastly disproportionate with the nature of the crime or out-of-touch with the standards of the community that it offends the conscience of the jury (when they learn of these facts...long after the trial is over).

But hey, we've come a long way since the educated jury of the founding era. Today, if you can spell C-A-T, with or without two T's, you're in like Flynn!
 

heartsurgeon

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2001
4,260
0
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Rumsfeld cannot be a terrorist
I was just quoting the moniker your favorite newsource uses to describe him linky - North Korean New Service
Max Cleland is half the patriot of Saxby Chambliss.
HAHAHAH (this is so wrong, but here it goes) well he is missing two legs isn't he? (my bad!)
More lunacy from Georgia
you have to wonder if those rascist jurors wanted to screw the poor balck kid, why didn't they convict him of rape? the part of this story that i find disgusting is the race baiting, and the fact that the kids' defense for screwing an underage girl is "white folk out to get me".
he was found guilty under the laws of georgia, and sentenced according to the laws of georgia.

if you disagree with the laws of georgia - fine, i don't have a problem with that..change the laws...and while your at it, instead of race baiting, why don't we ask the question who wrote the law that required the kid to be sentenced the way he was...Democrats? Republicans? Black? White? that is a much more interesting question, and if you disagree with the actions of those lawmakers...vote em out of office, but please quit trying to turn this deviant's behavior (exposing one's self in school, hand down girls pants, banging the 15 years old virgin in the school) into a "race issue" the kid has serious problems....he needs serious help or his gonna hurt more women (and yes, lack of respect for women is a hallmark trait of a misogynist) and get lots of free lodging at the Graybar Hotel. Bad laws...change the laws, punish the lawmakers....but give up on this race baiting crap, it gets old.
 

KK

Lifer
Jan 2, 2001
15,903
4
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Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
Max Cleland is half the patriot of Saxby Chambliss.
HAHAHAH (this is so wrong, but here it goes) well he is missing two legs isn't he? (my bad!)

LOL, that is so bad. :D

KK
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
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Wow, I left out some fetid meat and you snapped it up like a true scavenger . . . bravo. Sadly you epitomize the duplicity of the right on issues of national security/defense and general morality.

you have to wonder if those rascist jurors wanted to screw the poor balck kid, why didn't they convict him of rape?
Who called the jury racist? I've quoted the jury . . . the mostly white jury . . . myself. They are explicit in saying they do NOT agree with charge of aggravated child molestation if it was a mandatory minimum felony. But they believed "viriginity" should be worth something even if it was lost consensually. Now the prosecutor may or may not be racist but he's certainly a poor steward of the law.

Bad laws...change the laws, punish the lawmakers....but give up on this race baiting crap, it gets old.
Can you read? I know you are a Bush fan but . . . phonics . . . you know being able to sound out and pronounce words isn't the same as comprehension. The jury convicted him on statutory rape b/c he had consensual sex with a girl under 16 (bad law but still the law). The jury convicted him of aggravated child molestation b/c he had consensual sex with a girl under 16 who alleged she was previously a virgin . . . there's no Georgia statute that codifies such a charge. Arguably GA has decent laws b/c they have codified the penalty for consensual sexual relations between teens within a certain age range. And they reasonably ascertained that it should be a misdemeanor. He's GUILTY of that law but innocent of the letter of the law for aggravated child molestation. The question that needs to be answered is why would a prosecutor intentionally file the wrong charge?

I've never contended anyone associated with this case was a racist. Why? Because I have no evidence that anyone associated with this case is a racist . . . except hearsay from the girl's friends that she feared the response of her father. I'm addressing the miscarriage of justice by the people charged with administering it. The prosecutor is filled with vitriol which cannot possibly be based on the facts of the case since no one on the jury thinks Dixon did anything terribly wrong . . . just run of the mill wrong. I won't speculate on what drove this prosecutor to take this route but it certainly was not GA law.
 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,461
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Forgetting color but isn't sex with a 15 y/o still statuatory rape?

<---Still thinks he got a raw deal, especially if both sides were consenting
 

Ultima

Platinum Member
Oct 16, 1999
2,893
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He was aquitted of rape, but convicted of statutory rape and child molestation. He was convicted under the letter of the law, and completely by the book. I seriously doubt he wins his appeal. I mean for christ sakes he admitted to having sex with a minor.


With someone who was only 3 years younger than him... "child molestation"? 15 is not a child! Granted 15 and 30 would be very wrong but 15 and 18, nothing wrong there at all.