• We should now be fully online following an overnight outage. Apologies for any inconvenience, we do not expect there to be any further issues.

More False Info From The UN on MM Global Warming.

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,387
19,676
146
It seems so many claims are turning out to be mistakes, fantasy, or outright fraud.

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/03/23/eat-meat-reduce-global-warming/

Eat Less Meat, Reduce Global Warming -- or Not


Reducing consumption of meat and dairy products might not have a major impact in combating global warming despite claims that link diets rich in animal products to production of greenhouse gases.

Save the planet, eat less meat ... right? That's what the U.N. said, anyway, but one scientist has a grade A beef with that claim.

The largely reported link between global warming and cattle farming -- propagated by a United Nations report on "Livestock's Long Shadow" -- was also largely inaccurate, explains one scientist.

In a presentation before the 239th national meeting of the American Chemical Society, Dr. Frank Mitloehner of the University of California said the misleading claims emanate from a 2006 U.N. report, which said that livestock was "responsible for 18 per cent of greenhouse gas emissions," describing the figure as "a larger share than transportation."

According to Mitloehner, the claim is inaccurate because the numbers for livestock were calculated differently from the transport figures.

In the report, the livestock emissions included gases produced by growing animal feed; animals' digestive emissions; and processing meat and milk into foods. But the transportation analysis factored in only emissions from fossil fuels burned while driving, and not all other transport-lifecycle related factors.

"This lopsided analysis is a classical apples-and-oranges analogy that truly confused the issue," he said.

He argued that these claims also distract society from embracing effective solutions to global climate change. He noted that the notion is becoming deeply rooted in efforts to curb global warming, citing campaigns for "meatless Mondays" and a European campaign, called "Less Meat = Less Heat," launched late last year.

"We certainly can reduce our greenhouse gas production, but not by consuming less meat and milk,' he told the American Chemical Society meeting in San Francisco yesterday, reported The Daily Mail.

Numerous other mistakes in U.N. reports have been uncovered in recent months, following the leak of thousands of e-mails from a a climate-science group in England, a scandal labeled "Climate-gate."

First, scientists in the United Kingdom were caught covering up data that showed global warming has not occurred for the last 15 years. Then, the Copenhagen climate conference resulted in a standoff between the U.S., China, and the third world. More recently, U.N. researchers admitted that their forecasts of melting Himalayan glaciers, disappearing polar ice caps, and dwindling Amazon rainforests were based on shoddy evidence.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
I'm glad to see that stories from ACS are actually getting some play this time around (after the conference got skipped by the media in August when I was talking at it :p). These meetings have something for everyone, even if you're not technically oriented.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
You realize the 18% figure was not disproven, only the claim that it was higher than the figure for transportation.

That said, I'm having steak for dinner tonight, and a cheeseburger with fries tomorrow. Yum.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,402
8,574
126
You realize the 18% figure was not disproven, only the claim that it was higher than the figure for transportation.

That said, I'm having steak for dinner tonight, and a cheeseburger with fries tomorrow. Yum.

well, no, the 18% figure would be wrong, because that's % of the total, and if the total goes up without the contribution derived from meet going up, then it'll necessarily be a lower %.


anyway, there's nothing in this report that would invalidate agw.



One scientist? LOL!!!!

so?
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
3
0
Common sense. Meat consumption uses an order of magnitude (at least) more food resources than plant matter consumption.
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
Typical sensationalist science by the global warming scarecrows.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
well, no, the 18% figure would be wrong, because that's % of the total, and if the total goes up without the contribution derived from meet going up, then it'll necessarily be a lower %.

Actually no. The 18% is based on allocating a certain amount of the total to meat & dairy, based on raising cows, raising feed, etc.. If you shift what parts of the total get allocated to transport to be more similar (for example, adding the emissions from making tires) the % for transport changes but the overall total does not increase.

Before: Meat/dairy 18%, transport 15%, other 67% (percents are for illustration, too lazy to look them up)
After: Meat/dairy 18%, transport 25%, other 57%

Also interesting is that this scientist believes in climate change:
"He argued that these claims also distract society from embracing effective solutions to global climate change."

So Fox News & Amused, since you believe what he says do you accept that climate change is real?
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
B/c if it was the other way around, everyone would be saying the same thing. should I post every time one scientist announces that GW is real?
All it takes is one scientist to prove, or disprove, a claim or theory.

You know, e = mc2? pffft, one scientist? lol.

Any scientist is free to prove Mitloehner wrong too.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
All it takes is one scientist to prove, or disprove, a claim or theory.

You know, e = mc2? pffft, one scientist? lol.

Any scientist is free to prove Mitloehner wrong too.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As usual, TLC manages to be totally wrong.

1. Albert Einstein as one scientist was somewhat the first to advocate that E=mc2. And the damn hell of it is that the rascal Einstein happened to be totally right, all his predictions have been replicated time and time again, and as such he has revolutionized our understanding of Physics. Never mind the fact that Newton did an excellent job of predicting the behavior of baseballs and apples on earth, Newton was clueless about other things and Einstein helped fill in the gaps in both the very small subatomic and very large interstellar distances. But still Einstein never came up with a unified field theory, was probably wrong in his belief that God does not play dice in the Universe, and we do not yet know everything. But Science still searches

2. In terms of proving Mitloefner right or wrong, its simply not gonna happen any time soon, and anyone who thinks otherwise does not understand all we know and do not know about global warming. Or about Science and the Scientific method in General.

3. What Einstein did was more based on single variable co-ordinate transformations, specifically the already known Lorenz transformations, and such his now validated predictions have proved correct. In terms of global warming, there is no such single variable mathematical model explanation possible, and we must gather much more empirical data to be sure. Meanwhile we are in a damned if we do and damned if we
don't position, if we fail to act on the possible warnings we could be doomed, but are we doomed if we over react?

Even my bald hair dresser does not know for sure.
 
Last edited:

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
We all know about the slant, bias and inaccuracies in IPCC AR4. I've even more concerned by the continuing coercion of Journals not to publish any skeptical or critical papers submitted by scientists about AGW. This was proven in the Climategate Emails and it's still going on.

http://icecap.us/index.php/go/joes-blog

for the whole story about the collusion by climate scientists to stop the publication of any critical papers read the Emails

http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/reprint/climategate_analysis.html
 
Oct 27, 2007
17,009
5
0
Recent results show dark energy is causing the universe to expand faster than predicted by General Relativity - bah, More False Info From Einstein on The Nature of the Universe.

Science changes as facts come in. Truth crystallizes from data and our theories and models change to reflect this. It pisses me off that when we learn new facts you fuckheads see it as "SCIENTISTS WERE WRONG!" instead of, "hey, we now know more about the world around us, that's excellent."

Now besides that, there is no good reason to believe this ONE SCIENTIST until his work is repeated and verified. The writer of the article made absolutely no effort to let other climate scientists respond to the assertions. Par for the course for Fox News.
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
Recent results show dark energy is causing the universe to expand faster than predicted by General Relativity - bah, More False Info From Einstein on The Nature of the Universe.

Science changes as facts come in. Truth crystallizes from data and our theories and models change to reflect this. It pisses me off that when we learn new facts you fuckheads see it as "SCIENTISTS WERE WRONG!" instead of, "hey, we now know more about the world around us, that's excellent."

Now besides that, there is no good reason to believe this ONE SCIENTIST until his work is repeated and verified. The writer of the article made absolutely no effort to let other climate scientists respond to the assertions. Par for the course for Fox News.

How about the guy that grafted the hockey stick? The sensationalist media certainly believed him.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
How do you expect their work to be examined and verified if they refuse to release the data and code ? Phil Jones of Hadley CRU says that "sharing data" is not standard practice for climate scientists. It is standard practice for other non-climate scientists.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/03/...t-seat-not-sharing-data-is-standard-practice/

BTW do you think that NIWA was just incredibly sloppy with their "lost" climate data? or did they deliberately rig the increase in temperatures and have to destroy the data to hide what they did?
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Hell, I'm Surprised the All-Israel-All-The-Time UN had room for climate change - being they ignore genocide in places like Darfur/Algeria and seem singularly focused on Israel let alone climate change..
 
Aug 23, 2000
15,509
1
81
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As usual, TLC manages to be totally wrong.

1. Albert Einstein as one scientist was somewhat the first to advocate that E=mc2. And the damn hell of it is that the rascal Einstein happened to be totally right, all his predictions have been replicated time and time again, and as such he has revolutionized our understanding of Physics. Never mind the fact that Newton did an excellent job of predicting the behavior of baseballs and apples on earth, Newton was clueless about other things and Einstein helped fill in the gaps in both the very small subatomic and very large interstellar distances. But still Einstein never came up with a unified field theory, was probably wrong in his belief that God does not play dice in the Universe, and we do not yet know everything. But Science still searches

2. In terms of proving Mitloefner right or wrong, its simply not gonna happen any time soon, and anyone who thinks otherwise does not understand all we know and do not know about global warming. Or about Science and the Scientific method in General.

So you say in point 1. That Newton did a good job predicting behavior of BASEBALLS and apples on Earth even though BASEBALLS weren't invented yet, and yet say we do not yet know everything and science still searches. So how can you say TLC is totally wrong when the statements in his post are factual? Einstein DID coin E=MC2. Newton didn't know about energy thus he couldn't have postulated the formula.
As for point 2. What we know about global warming is, nature can affect it much quicker and more profoundly than man can. It has been proven that natural events can change the earth's climate. What we also know about it is the people that want to believe in it the most also stand to profit the most (Al Gore). They are also hypocrites.
 

Linflas

Lifer
Jan 30, 2001
15,395
78
91
So they figured out the shocking news that animals fart and have been farting on this planet for millions of years be it running around freely living their lives and reproducing in the wild or domesticated in herds being raised for food? Amazing!
 

Daedalus685

Golden Member
Nov 12, 2009
1,386
1
0
So they figured out the shocking news that animals fart and have been farting on this planet for millions of years be it running around freely living their lives and reproducing in the wild or domesticated in herds being raised for food? Amazing!

The issue is not that animals produce green house gases, it is that the large producers of these gases are being centralized in places that used to be reserved for CO2 scrubbing (forests and the like, particularly in Brazil).

Why does the word 'fart' seem to discredit the idea in so many people's minds. The population of domesticated animals is growing, why is it unbelievable that these pockets of animals that previously were not there could produce more emissions than would be possible a few thousand years ago? Whether you increase the number of tail pipes or tails you still get more where there was previously few..
 
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As usual, TLC manages to be totally wrong.
Too bad you completely fail to actually back up that claim despite your long-winded, arbitrary ramblings.

1. Albert Einstein as one scientist was somewhat the first to advocate that E=mc2. And the damn hell of it is that the rascal Einstein happened to be totally right, all his predictions have been replicated time and time again, and as such he has revolutionized our understanding of Physics. Never mind the fact that Newton did an excellent job of predicting the behavior of baseballs and apples on earth, Newton was clueless about other things and Einstein helped fill in the gaps in both the very small subatomic and very large interstellar distances. But still Einstein never came up with a unified field theory, was probably wrong in his belief that God does not play dice in the Universe, and we do not yet know everything. But Science still searches
iow, one scientist completely revolutionized science. Yah, we know already. And his failings in other areas doesn't change or dilute Einstein's contributions of special or general relativity.

2. In terms of proving Mitloefner right or wrong, its simply not gonna happen any time soon, and anyone who thinks otherwise does not understand all we know and do not know about global warming. Or about Science and the Scientific method in General.
Try to follow along with the actual content and context, LL. I know it can be difficult after you've jerked your knee so forcefully into your chin, but do give it a shot. I was talking about Mitloefner's specific claim concerning cattle, not GW in general.

3. What Einstein did was more based on single variable co-ordinate transformations, specifically the already known Lorenz transformations, and such his now validated predictions have proved correct. In terms of global warming, there is no such single variable mathematical model explanation possible, and we must gather much more empirical data to be sure. Meanwhile we are in a damned if we do and damned if we
don't position, if we fail to act on the possible warnings we could be doomed, but are we doomed if we over react?

Even my bald hair dresser does not know for sure.
Actually, Einsatein more correctly derived his equations from Poincaré, who drevied his from Lorentz, who derived his from Voigt. But that's really neither here nor there as the work of any scientist is based on the work of those who came before. Your hair dresser should have told you that.