More dick moves and it's not even political- United Airlines

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KMFJD

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
33,817
54,453
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I'm surprised that the MD wasn't charged an extra fee for the priority disembarkation....
 
E

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,612
3,834
126
Paratus said:
From what I could find:
ishot-39-e1276176202280.jpg
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2008 numbers pretty out of date since the numbers have been consistently falling since 1970 and merging all of the carriers together skews the numbers since the largest domestic carrier by passenger (Southwest) IDB's more than 2x as many people as United. Your chance to be IDBd on a United flight is 0.004%

https://www.transportation.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/docs/2016DecemberATCR.pdf

In any case my percents weren't related to what chance a passenger has to be IDB'd but what chance there is that the passenger will be IDB'd after being allowed on the plane and then refuse to comply with Officer instructions. This type of situation happens far less often than a plane crash - its easily in the Rare category

Edit: So that would be a Low(2). I think this unlikely situation has enough hoops to move through that you could concoct an innumerable number of scenarios where 5-8 additional things have to go wrong to make a 0.004% occurrence turn into a negative PR storm
 
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JSt0rm

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,948
126
vi edit said:
Some people just make a living out of hustling and maybe he was trying to make a haul on this? That's all I'm saying. It in no way vindicates the actions by the airline or security.
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thats cool. If they ever try to remove me Ill tell them they will need to beat me and drag me off. and then get sued.
 
E

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,612
3,834
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Vic said:
You're confused. This passenger wasn't denied boarding. He was forcibly deplaned after boarding, without legitimate cause.
The overbooked/IDB argument doesn't quite work in this circumstance because the passenger was already sitting in his seat. That's an important distinction you're overlooking.
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Overlooking? I very clearly covered that in the same post. Perhaps you are confused and overlooked that?

No where does it specify 'seated' one way or the other. It says 'boarding' but as I've mentioned there is much debate over where that line is with many in the industry coming down on the side of 'Passengers are not considered fully boarded until the passenger manifest is handed over and the boarding door is closed.' The general theme is 'They may have had the right to but should they have?'
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Perhaps you've missed the discussions about what constitutes 'Boarding' from the contractual obligations aspect but there are quite a few lawyers out there quoted in media reports that this is an IDB case. There are also lawyers saying it isn't (although they appear to be fewer in number) so this likely won't be settled outside of a courtroom.

Regardless you seem to have a misconception that people aren't removed from planes for IDB reasons once they are seated. It does happen. Even the government does it. Air Marshals have walked up to a full flight, claimed someone's seat who were already seated and those people were shit out of luck with their IDB.

Anyway I'll say the same thing I said in the other thread. I'm leaving on a string of flights over the next several days, including United connections through O'Hare so I won't be around much to interrupt the orgy of Untied hate ;) If I get dragged off a plane I'll shout "Yes Nik this really is me being dragged off a plane" and fill you all in on what I learn about the police removal process
 
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Sheik Yerbouti

Sheik Yerbouti

Lifer
Feb 16, 2005
14,080
5,453
136
Yet there'd be little to no surprise if it was legit, that's how far down in the sewers we are with this dissonant bagpipe powered by farts, aka drumpf*

*stolen and modified from @ Midnight
 
V

VRAMdemon

Diamond Member
Aug 16, 2012
8,086
10,778
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brycejones said:
Never forget the horror that happened in Chicago. Thank god the police were able to step in and shut it down early.
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I'm sorry, but we are going to need to remove you from this thread. You'll be offered a voucher to start 4 other threads in the other forums of this MB. If you get 5 threads. You receive an Anandtech P & N coffee mug! stay strong!
 
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Vic

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
I don't understand why some people keep arguing the legal nuances of this incident when it is, in fact, a customer service issue. UAL may have all the legal standing in the world to do what they did, but the reality is that most people don't want to fly on an airline that reserves the right to forcibly kick you off the plane for any reason they feel like, or even for no reason at all. Just like most people don't want to stay at a hotel that reserves the right to forcibly evict you in the middle of the night. Instead, they are going to choose to spend their hard earned money at competitors with a better understanding of basic customer service.
This shouldn't be rocket science, but I guess it is for some.

Edit: and just a preemptive counter, but if airlines do this, then I wouldn't be surprised to see overall air traffic go down slightly. It's not a particularly long drive from Chicago to Louisville, for example.
 
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Londo_Jowo

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
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londojowo.hypermart.net
Vic said:
Edit: and just a preemptive counter, but if airlines do this, then I wouldn't be surprised to see overall air traffic go down slightly. It's not a particularly long drive from Chicago to Louisville, for example.
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Overbooking flights has been going on for decades on all airlines in the US, air travel has not been affected by the practice.
 
M

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
13,580
4,236
136
Vic said:
I don't understand why some people keep arguing the legal nuances of this incident when it is, in fact, a customer service issue. UAL may have all the legal standing in the world to do what they did, but the reality is that most people don't want to fly on an airline that reserves the right to forcibly kick you off the plane for any reason they feel like, or even for no reason at all. Just like most people don't want to stay at a hotel that reserves the right to forcibly evict you in the middle of the night. Instead, they are going to choose to spend their hard earned money at competitors with a better understanding of basic customer service.
This shouldn't be rocket science, but I guess it is for some.

Edit: and just a preemptive counter, but if airlines do this, then I wouldn't be surprised to see overall air traffic go down slightly. It's not a particularly long drive from Chicago to Louisville, for example.
Click to expand...
Come on man, corporations are people too. Who's standing up for their rights, if not Exterous? :)
 
Vic

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Londo_Jowo said:
Overbooking flights has been going on for decades on all airlines in the US, air travel has not been affected by the practice.
Click to expand...
Another amazing thing is how some people keep ignoring the clear and obvious difference between being denied boarding and being violently deplaned, but hey... ya can't fix stupid, and I'm not going to try.
 
B

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
30,294
31,347
136
Vic said:
Another amazing thing is how some people keep ignoring the clear and obvious difference between being denied boarding and being violently deplaned, but hey... ya can't fix stupid, and I'm not going to try.
Click to expand...

The correct term is enhanced passenger deplaning process.
 
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Sunburn74

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,076
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Vic said:
Another amazing thing is how some people keep ignoring the clear and obvious difference between being denied boarding and being violently deplaned, but hey... ya can't fix stupid, and I'm not going to try.
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I still don't see a difference between being denied boarding and being violently deplaned. If he was at the gate being denied boarding and acted the same way by screaming at the attendant behind the desk and refusing to step back and allow others to pass, he would be carried off by security in probably the same way.
 
Ventanni

Ventanni

Golden Member
Jul 25, 2011
1,432
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Sunburn74 said:
The worst thing to me is that he is a 69 year old MD. He should know better than to act as a petulant child. Yes you have patients to be seen tomorrow. You call in work emergency coverage or you cancel the shift/clinic etc. I assure you he didn't go to work the next day and his patient's did just fine. The fact that he was an MD makes his behavior even less justifiable.
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Thank you for stating that.

This whole situation is just embarrassing, but I agree that both parties had a part to play in making this entire situation a PR debacle. United Airlines could have upped the voucher and increased compensation to further incentivize someone to voluntarily leave the flight. I, like the rest of you, do not like waking up in the morning to see a man bloodied up by airline security and forceably removed from a flight. At the same time, the man did not need to act the way he did. Regardless of how unjustifiable the position he was placed in, he still chose to act with character we would expect from a 3 year old. He, too, had a part to play in how this situation spiraled out of control.
 
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