More China tariffs going into effect. 10% then later rise to 25% on $200B

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
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He's structuring to try and prevent a dramatic rise in consumer goods costs in the run up to Christmas but that could go out the window when China retaliates (and they will).

President Donald Trump will impose 10 percent tariffs on $200 billion worth of Chinese imports, and those duties will rise to 25 percent at the end of the year.

The action, announced by the Trump administration Monday, escalates a trade conflict between the world's two largest economies. China has already threatened to retaliate against new trade barriers.

The White House removed about 300 goods from a previously proposed list of affected products, including smart watches, some chemicals and other products such as bicycle helmets and high chairs.

Trump has also considered whether to impose duties on an additional $267 billion in Chinese goods. He previously said the duties are "ready to go on short notice if I want."

The White House has already levied tariffs on $50 billion worth of Chinese products. Beijing responded with measures targeting $50 billion on American goods, raising fears about damage to the American farm industry.

China's Foreign Ministry has said the government would hit back if the U.S. moved forward with tariffs.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/17/trump-puts-new-tariffs-on-china-as-trade-war-escalates.html
 
Nov 8, 2012
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So far if were going by stock prices, China is definitely the loser here. Their Index is down over 20% over the last 6 months.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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So far if were going by stock prices, China is definitely the loser here. Their Index is down over 20% over the last 6 months.

There is no reason to go by stock prices. Our government had raised taxes on you and they are pledging to raise them even more.

The idea that Trump raising taxes on Americans is going to cause the capitulation of foreign trading partners is probably wrong.
 
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FIVR

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2016
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Trump is a such a fvcking idiot. He is obsessed with these tariffs and he doesn't understand even the most basic principles of economics. Read Bob Woodard's book, it's all in there. Gary Cohn prevented disaster for months, but eventually he was overpowered by mentally disabled "economist" Peter Navarro and insider trader Wilbur Ross.


Trump believes deficits mean other countries are stealing from us (literally). He knows this deep in his senile brain and he will ignore all evidence and argument to maintain this belief. He actually thinks these tariffs are the reason why the economy is recovering.


So my portfolio is down 2% today instead of up 10% like it would be if this fat rapist would STFU.
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
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Yeah, Cheeto was on Fox stating it would fill the coffers of the US....so there you are. Deficit neutral tax cuts!

Guess who's paying?
Americans are everytime we go shopping.
Trump is robbing us through hidden tax increases.

depositphotos_137809564-stock-illustration-pickpocket-steals-money.jpg


What's the strategy we're paying for?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
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Trump's view on tariffs and trade deficits is just about the only opinion which was not fed to him by advisers as a way of capturing the GOP base. He has apparently held these protectionist views for decades. In the Woodward book, I think it was Cohn who asked Trump where he got these views from that 99% of all economists disagree with, and Trump says, "I don't know. I've just always had them." This trade policy is based on the gut feelings of an ignorant buffoon, and apparently not much else.
 

urvile

Golden Member
Aug 3, 2017
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I am curious to see what happens. However this does fuck everyone. From US farmers to Australia generally. This is now going to dent our economy not by a lot but still. Trumps tariffs are kind of all or nothing.

What's going to come out of it? When I listen to experts. Primarily economists specialized in the Chinese and US economies/trade. There is a vast difference of opinion. Some say China will deal, some say China will apply their own tariffs and some say China will retaliate in a much more targeted way and those are the experts opinions. There is a lot of disagreement.

I would personally like to see China held to account for their theft of IP. I find it annoying that the Central Commitee basically allows counterfeiting.

On another note the Australian government once again banned Huawei from bidding on contracts this time for 5G. Australian government agencies see Huawei as a potential arm of Chinese intelligence and advise accordingly. It's problematic.

EDIT: just to add there are only a handful of companies that have a robust enterprise level 5G implementation and Huawei is one of them. Otherwise think Nokia and Ericsson.
 
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1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
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So far if were going by stock prices, China is definitely the loser here. Their Index is down over 20% over the last 6 months.


China can't lose, they sacrificed their people and environment in order to accelerate their progress using the blind greed of American corporations who thought they were getting the deal of a lifetime not having to deal with American Labor, Environmental, Safety, as well as the higher domestic wages and associated benefits which reduce the upward flow of wealth.

They are more than willing to sacrifice again, can impatient, selfish, cheaper is better profit only matters, Americans, able to sacrifice as well for the long duration?


Beijing has tactics besides just tariffs to hurt the U.S. in a trade war

"China is not a country of laws, it’s an authoritarian dictatorship," said one economist. "So from that opening point, China is potentially able to play much, much dirtier."
https://www.nbcnews.com/business/ec...s-besides-just-tariffs-hurt-u-s-trade-n884826
“The biggest fear is the inability for companies that make profits to repatriate their dividends as easily as they want to."
“The first thing to observe here is that China is not a country of laws, it's an authoritarian dictatorship," said Jacob Kirkegaard, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics, who warned that American businesses could take the punishment for Trump’s antagonism. "So from that opening point, China is potentially able to play much, much dirtier than the United States."

“He will essentially force the Chinese government to retaliate in other ways — and those other ways can be much more costly to American firms,” he said. “That belief is premised on a fundamentally erroneous assumption about how the modern economy works … and a lack of concern with how engaged American businesses are involved already in China.”

American manufacturers like automakers have made considerable investments into manufacturing facilities in China, and the financial and professional services sectors have a large and profitable presence there. These and other multinationals operating in China are vulnerable to a wide array of actions the government could take against them.

For example, Chinese officials could slow the customs process for U.S. products entering the country, launch investigations into or spring inspections onto factories, hotels or other businesses — all activities for which a veneer of plausible deniability would make proving a punitive motive difficult. The Chinese government could restrict access to its market by stopping American business investment or, if the situation worsened, mandate that they divest entirely, said Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody’s Analytics.

For manufacturers in particular, this prospect could be a big hit to the bottom line. “That would be very disruptive, it would be more costly and it would be a mess,” Zandi said.

“The biggest fear is the inability for companies that make profits to repatriate their dividends as easily as they want to."

Financial companies, along with legal, consulting, and other professional service providers could also find themselves facing more hurdles, Sabran said. “They could start to show their teeth a little bit and make it more difficult to do business,” he said. “They could basically put additional regulatory constraints on these businesses,” he said, such as requiring China-based executives to be fluent Chinese speakers, requiring data centers to be located in China or — perhaps most onerous — placing capital controls on repatriating profits.

“The biggest fear is the inability for companies that make profits to repatriate their dividends as easily as they want to,” Subran said.

China’s control over a state-run media could also be weaponized, turning China’s millennial middle class against American consumer brands. “Economic patriotism is very high,” Subran said. A campaign against highly visible products like GM cars, Starbucks coffee, Apple iPhones or even Boeing jets could damage these companies’ profitability in China.

 
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K1052

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Aug 21, 2003
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China has announced that they will retaliate. While they'll soon run out of US goods to tariff since they import less there are alternative measures available.

As Beijing runs out of U.S. goods for retaliation, American companies say regulators are starting to disrupt their operations.

Last week, the American Chambers of Commerce in China and in Shanghai reported 52 percent of more than 430 companies that responded to a survey said they have faced slower customs clearance and increased inspections and bureaucratic procedures.

https://apnews.com/bd5ec451a12b4a04bdcd3015b3790b22

Visas are going to be another big item too. US companies will probably face long delays and higher scrutiny. Hard to do business if you can't get into the country.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
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I'm don't think he's this stupid but maybe comically out of touch as usual with a person of his wealth or just lying to everybody's faces. Maybe both.

v7Oo25d.png




Alternative headline: US government raising taxes on a broad array of consumer goods.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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I'm don't think he's this stupid but maybe comically out of touch as usual with a person of his wealth or just lying to everybody's faces. Maybe both.

v7Oo25d.png




Alternative headline: US government raising taxes on a broad array of consumer goods.

I don't know...seems like 10% is 10% and 25% is 25%....especially when Cheeto has put those on nearly half of the imports per year and is threatening the other half. Seems like EVERYTHING from China will get the 10-25% price hike from where I'm sitting, no?

I'm still trying to figure out why he has the unlimited power to enact these tariffs in the name of 'National Security'? I know CONgress knows this as they voted on a nonbinding resolution a few months ago stating as much.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
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Trump is presently threatening China on twitter again. Should work.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
52,254
45,498
136
I don't know...seems like 10% is 10% and 25% is 25%....especially when Cheeto has put those on nearly half of the imports per year and is threatening the other half. Seems like EVERYTHING from China will get the 10-25% price hike from where I'm sitting, no?

I'm still trying to figure out why he has the unlimited power to enact these tariffs in the name of 'National Security'? I know CONgress knows this as they voted on a nonbinding resolution a few months ago stating as much.

Looks to be where this is headed.

I think there are some mechanisms for appeal. Newspapers got a tariff on Canadian newsprint lifted that was really fucking them over for the sole benefit of a US hedge fund.
 

Herr Kutz

Platinum Member
Jun 14, 2009
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I thought more taxes were good (CNN and MSBNC said so). Why all the hate from the left all of a sudden?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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I thought more taxes were good (CNN and MSBNC said so). Why all the hate from the left all of a sudden?

These taxes incentivize making products inefficiently to avoid them. That's a dumb policy. Unfortunately for us the president seems to be a dumb person, so here we are.

Just because we all know the US needs to raise taxes doesn't mean that any tax we decide to implement is a good idea.
 

fleshconsumed

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2002
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I thought more taxes were good (CNN and MSBNC said so). Why all the hate from the left all of a sudden?
You're conflating three separate issues. One is who is taxed. Two is how much our society is taxed. Three is where those taxes are going to.

Right now the taxes from the tariffs are being paid by the poors and are going to offset tax breaks for the 0.1% from the most recent tax bill. This is redistribution of wealth from the poors to the rich.

How are you not upset by it?