More budget cuts coming at ya!

[Tangerines]

Link

WASHINGTON (AP) -- House Republicans voted to cut student loan subsidies, child support enforcement and aid to firms hurt by unfair trade practices as various committees scrambled to piece together $50 billion in budget cuts.

More politically difficult votes -- to cut Medicaid, food stamps and farm subsidies -- are on tap Thursday as more panels weigh in on the bill.

It was originally intended to cut $35 billion in spending over five years, but after pressure from conservatives, GOP leaders directed committees to cut another $15 billion to help pay the cost of hurricane recovery.

President Bush met with House and Senate GOP leaders and said he was pleased with the progress.

He also appeared to endorse a plan by House Speaker Dennis Hastert's plan for an across-the-board cut in agency budgets, perhaps including the Pentagon, by the end of the year.

"I encourage Congress to push the envelope when it comes to cutting spending," Bush said.
Budget bill

Dozens of issues are at play as Republicans in both the House and Senate cobble together the sprawling budget bill.

The measure is the first in eight years to take aim at the automatic growth of federal spending programs such as Medicaid and Medicare.

In the Senate, the Budget Committee voted along party lines to bundle together the work of eight legislative committees into a bill that will be debated next week by the full Senate.

The Congressional Budget Office said the Senate measure would save $39 billion over five years -- $4 billion more than the budget passed last spring.

Pressed to produce more savings than the Senate, House committees took more political chances in drafting the $50 billion House plan, which has become a rallying point for the GOP's conservative wing and its anxiety about hurricane relief worsening the deficit.

The House Education and the Workforce panel, for example, was told to generate $18 billion in savings over five years. On Wednesday it approved squeezing lenders in the student loan program and raising premiums to employers for government insurance of their employees' and retirees' pension benefits.
'Raid on student aid'

It also imposes new fees on students who default on loans or consolidate them and higher fees on parents who borrow on behalf of their college-age children. California Rep. George Miller, the senior Democrat on the panel, called the package a "raid on student aid."

The Ways and Means Committee approved on a party-line vote a plan by its chairman, Rep. Bill Thomas, R-California, with so many difficult-to-swallow provisions that lawmakers and aides whispered about whether the intent was to make it hard for GOP leaders to win its passage in the full House.

It includes $3.8 billion in cuts to child support enforcement. Rep. Earl Pomeroy, D-North Dakota, charged that Republicans were appealing to the "constituency of deadbeat dads."

The bill also would tighten eligibility standards for foster care assistance in nine states and delay some lump-sum payments to very poor and elderly beneficiaries of Social Security's Supplemental Security Income program.

"It was abundantly clear that Thomas didn't want to do this stuff," said an aide to a Ways and Means Republican who spoke on condition of anonymity but cited meetings that occurred behind the scenes. House GOP leaders this month directed Thomas to produce $8 billion in savings, eight times the original target he was assigned.

The Ways and Means plan also would eliminate payments to industries harmed by unfair foreign trade practices. Those payments come from the proceeds of duties on foreign goods "dumped" into the U.S. market.
ANWR drilling

The House Resources Committee approved a controversial plan to raise $2.4 billion in lease revenues by permitting oil drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.

Minority Democrats opposed virtually everything that was done, saying Wednesday's actions are part of a broader GOP budget blueprint that also calls for $106 billion in new tax cuts over the next five years.

"They are targeting programs for poor people to pay for tax cuts for rich people," said Rep. David Obey, D-Wisconsin. Once those tax cuts are passed, Obey added, deficits will be increasing again.

Why is it that these sorts of vital programs get cut? Why not cut pork or raise taxes? What sucks is that it's us that get shafted by these sorts of things.

 

[glenn1]

Why is it that these sorts of vital programs get cut? Why not cut pork

Vital programs? What do you think the government is, some sort of butler/gopher to cater to everyone's every whim? Defense, roads, postal service is what the federal government should be doing. Everything else IS pork.

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: glenn1

Why is it that these sorts of vital programs get cut? Why not cut pork

Vital programs? What do you think the government is, some sort of butler/gopher to cater to everyone's every whim? Defense, roads, postal service is what the federal government should be doing. Everything else IS pork.

I don't see roads or the postal service in the constitution. Explain to me how the Iraq war, among other things is not pork.

 

[glenn1]

I don't see roads or the postal service in the constitution.

You might want to clean off your glasses and look again (or maybe read the document for the first time). The sections in bold seem to be what I put in my post.

Article 1, Section. 8.

Clause 1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Clause 2: To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

Clause 3: To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

Clause 4: To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

Clause 5: To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

Clause 6: To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

Clause 7: To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

Clause 8: To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

Clause 9: To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

Clause 10: To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

Clause 11: To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

Clause 12: To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

Clause 13: To provide and maintain a Navy;

Clause 14: To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

Clause 15: To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

Clause 16: To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

Clause 17: To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, byCession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And

Clause 18: To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

Explain to me how the Iraq war, among other things is not pork.

Read the above about how Congress has the right to declare war. Congress passed a Joint Resolution authorizing the use of force in Iraq. Siince there's not a specified method that Congress is required to use in order to declare war, I'd say this is an exercise of Clause 11. Now if you want to argue that it's "pork," that's something you should take up with your Congress Critter, not me.

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: glenn1

I don't see roads or the postal service in the constitution.

You might want to clean off your glasses and look again (or maybe read the document for the first time). The sections in bold seem to be what I put in my post.

Article 1, Section. 8.

Clause 1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Clause 2: To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

Clause 3: To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

Clause 4: To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

Clause 5: To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

Clause 6: To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

Clause 7: To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

Clause 8: To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

Clause 9: To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

Clause 10: To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

Clause 11: To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

Clause 12: To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

Clause 13: To provide and maintain a Navy;

Clause 14: To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

Clause 15: To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

Clause 16: To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

Clause 17: To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, byCession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And

Clause 18: To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

Explain to me how the Iraq war, among other things is not pork.

Read the above about how Congress has the right to declare war. Congress passed a Joint Resolution authorizing the use of force in Iraq. Siince there's not a specified method that Congress is required to use in order to declare war, I'd say this is an exercise of Clause 11. Now if you want to argue that it's "pork," that's something you should take up with your Congress Critter, not me.

I definately think the Iraq war is pork, deadly, depressing pork, and my Congress Critter has definately heard my dissatisfaction.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: glenn1

Why is it that these sorts of vital programs get cut? Why not cut pork

Vital programs? What do you think the government is, some sort of butler/gopher to cater to everyone's every whim? Defense, roads, postal service is what the federal government should be doing. Everything else IS pork.

Guess you haven't heard the news. The transportation bill was LOADED with pork. So much for the government efficiently providing us with roads.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: glenn1

Why is it that these sorts of vital programs get cut? Why not cut pork

Vital programs? What do you think the government is, some sort of butler/gopher to cater to everyone's every whim? Defense, roads, postal service is what the federal government should be doing. Everything else IS pork.

Sure, those jobs are what the federal government should be doing at the very least. But even within those areas there can be pork, it's not all black and white. How much has been spent on the utterly worthless Department of Homeland Security (what, if anything, would you say that tye do)? How much pork are there in defense contracts...or transportation projects?

Smart budget cuts involve trying to do everything necessary as efficiently as possible, not in just grouping things by function and not worrying about some of those groups at all.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: Tangerines
Why is it that these sorts of vital programs get cut? Why not cut pork or raise taxes? What sucks is that it's us that get shafted by these sorts of things.

Raise taxes on the evil rich, eh?

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Tangerines
Why is it that these sorts of vital programs get cut? Why not cut pork or raise taxes? What sucks is that it's us that get shafted by these sorts of things.

Raise taxes on the evil rich, eh?

what's sad is people like you care more about their own personal wealth than the welfare of others. it would be nice if we never went into Iraq, a lot of good things could have been done.

 

[umbrella39]

I hope they cut with reckless abandon. Most of the cuts they want to make will directly affect their low income base that is struggling to get by just like everyone else. Take away their food and see if they ever vote republican again. :thumbsup:

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Tangerines
Why is it that these sorts of vital programs get cut? Why not cut pork or raise taxes? What sucks is that it's us that get shafted by these sorts of things.

Raise taxes on the evil rich, eh?

what's sad is people like you care more about their own personal wealth than the welfare of others. it would be nice if we never went into Iraq, a lot of good things could have been done.

I guess that there are lots of Americans like me then. See my link in sig and my thread on private donations.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: glenn1

Why is it that these sorts of vital programs get cut? Why not cut pork

Vital programs? What do you think the government is, some sort of butler/gopher to cater to everyone's every whim? Defense, roads, postal service is what the federal government should be doing. Everything else IS pork.

Sounds vital to me. Congress and the states have made a judgment that very substantial numbers of homeless, jobless, destitute and desperate people pose a potential threat of "domestic distubances" -- you know, food riots and such. Preventing such "domestic disturbance" is deemed to be a legitimate matter related to providing for both the "common defense and general welfare" of the United States. Shoring up those levies are also Defensive in nature.

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Tangerines
Why is it that these sorts of vital programs get cut? Why not cut pork or raise taxes? What sucks is that it's us that get shafted by these sorts of things.

Raise taxes on the evil rich, eh?

what's sad is people like you care more about their own personal wealth than the welfare of others. it would be nice if we never went into Iraq, a lot of good things could have been done.

I guess that there are lots of Americans like me then. See my link in sig and my thread on private donations.

that's not a good thing to know that a lot of Americans are greedy and self-serving. i swear i've never seen someone so happy to be the norm......

 

[Zebo]

Clause 12: To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

Sounds like we're not supposed to have a standing army to me.

 

[Jhhnn]

From zendari-

"I guess that there are lots of Americans like me then. "

True. PT Barnum had a word for it, and pointed out that there's one born every minute... probably more today. Exploitation of greed is the essential element in nearly every congame.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: glenn1

I don't see roads or the postal service in the constitution.

You might want to clean off your glasses and look again (or maybe read the document for the first time). The sections in bold seem to be what I put in my post.

Article 1, Section. 8.

Clause 1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Clause 2: To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

Clause 3: To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

Clause 4: To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

Clause 5: To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

Clause 6: To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

Clause 7: To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

Clause 8: To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

Clause 9: To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

Clause 10: To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

Clause 11: To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

Clause 12: To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

Clause 13: To provide and maintain a Navy;

Clause 14: To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

Clause 15: To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

Clause 16: To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

Clause 17: To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, byCession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And

Clause 18: To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

Explain to me how the Iraq war, among other things is not pork.

Read the above about how Congress has the right to declare war. Congress passed a Joint Resolution authorizing the use of force in Iraq. Siince there's not a specified method that Congress is required to use in order to declare war, I'd say this is an exercise of Clause 11. Now if you want to argue that it's "pork," that's something you should take up with your Congress Critter, not me.

That is some serious ownage right there, some of the best I have seen in the past few months.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: glenn1

Why is it that these sorts of vital programs get cut? Why not cut pork

Vital programs? What do you think the government is, some sort of butler/gopher to cater to everyone's every whim? Defense, roads, postal service is what the federal government should be doing. Everything else IS pork.

Sounds vital to me. Congress and the states have made a judgment that very substantial numbers of homeless, jobless, destitute and desperate people pose a potential threat of "domestic distubances" -- you know, food riots and such. Preventing such "domestic disturbance" is deemed to be a legitimate matter related to providing for both the "common defense and general welfare" of the United States. Shoring up those levies are also Defensive in nature.

Are you saying a certain portion of our population is using extortion?

 

[Tangerines]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Tangerines
Why is it that these sorts of vital programs get cut? Why not cut pork or raise taxes? What sucks is that it's us that get shafted by these sorts of things.

Raise taxes on the evil rich, eh?

what's sad is people like you care more about their own personal wealth than the welfare of others. it would be nice if we never went into Iraq, a lot of good things could have been done.

I guess that there are lots of Americans like me then. See my link in sig and my thread on private donations.

The way money is being spent right now, taxes do need to be raised. Either we need to make the government more efficient at spending, or raise taxes. I think raising taxes is the better idea, because politicians seem unwilling to cut nonessential pork from the budget, and instead decide to take money from more vital programs.

Although the private charity idea seems like a pretty good one, it simply won't raise the money necessary. If $15 billion is needed right now, private charity will need to raise 150 times the amount listed in the article (100 million) to pay that. I don't think that's likely to happen.

 

[Jhhnn]

"ownage", Genx87? Congress can declare pork, it happens all the time, particularly now that the Repubs are in charge. Just because they call it a war doesn't mean it's not military/industrial complex pork at its finest.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
"ownage", Genx87? Congress can declare pork, it happens all the time, particularly now that the Repubs are in charge. Just because they call it a war doesn't mean it's not military/industrial complex pork at its finest.

Yes that was ownage.

Eatspam says don't see roads or the postal service in the constitution. Explain to me how the Iraq war, among other things is not pork.


To which glenn1 points to the very part of the constitution that contradicts him.
That is a serious case of ownage.

 

[Medicine Bear]

Are these real cuts or lesser increases being called cuts? Never understood how increasing spending on something by 5% instead of 7% could be considered a cut. Anyway, just wondering if that is the case here as well.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Medicine Bear
Are these real cuts or lesser increases being called cuts? Never understood how increasing spending on something by 5% instead of 7% could be considered a cut. Anyway, just wondering if that is the case here as well.

That is called govtspeak. The crying, whining, and temper tantrums you hear from politicians about their programs seeing budget cuts mean in 90% of the cases the cut is just a lower increase.

You see in the govt only can a 5% increase in a budget vs a 7% projected increase be considered a "cut" in the budget.

 

[Jhhnn]

Your support of glenn1's selective distortion of the Constitution constitutes self-ownage, genx87. He bolds the bit about "common defence", yet completely ignores the "and" operative applied to "general welfare" in the same phrase of the original document.

That's only seeing what you want to see, a form of denial, of avoiding cognitive dissonance that's profound, and entirely obvious to anybody not blinded by their own ideology...

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Your support of glenn1's selective distortion of the Constitution constitutes self-ownage, genx87. He bolds the bit about "common defence", yet completely ignores the "and" operative applied to "general welfare" in the same phrase of the original document.

That's only seeing what you want to see, a form of denial, of avoiding cognitive dissonance that's profound, and entirely obvious to anybody not blinded by their own ideology...

Since you obviously cant figure out the obvious. I think the note about roads and the post office constitutes enough for total ownage.

But continue to come back and let me know about how that isnt ownage lmao.

 

[glenn1]

That is some serious ownage right there, some of the best I have seen in the past few months.

It wasn't intended to be derogatory (although I do hope it was helpful, obviously civics education in this country can use a bit of work) and perhaps the person it was in response to was trying to make a sarcastic point but didn't use an emoticon.

Guess you haven't heard the news. The transportation bill was LOADED with pork. So much for the government efficiently providing us with roads.

No argument on the pork in the transportation bill. And trust me, I don't expect the government to do anything efficiently, even the stuff which is their constitutionally specified function.

Sounds vital to me. Congress and the states have made a judgment that very substantial numbers of homeless, jobless, destitute and desperate people pose a potential threat of "domestic distubances" -- you know, food riots and such. Preventing such "domestic disturbance" is deemed to be a legitimate matter related to providing for both the "common defense and general welfare" of the United States.

While that's an honest argument, IMHO it's not a valid one. By being so inclusive and expansive with the definition, you're essentially saying there's nothing which the federal government cannot spend the money on since any possible use would fall under "general welfare." The SCOTUS specifically knocked down this line of thought when they struck down the federal "no firearms within 100 feet of a school" law (the government position was that is was allowable under the powers to regulate "interstate commerce"). Why bother specifying some of the things Congress can spend money on (roads, post offices, etc) if you're going to simply say anything goes a few words later in the "general welfare" part? While I agree that this is open-ended language, I think it was intended for far more limited use, not to allow the federal government to become a game show host playing "let's make a deal" with voters.