More 2012 Focus info!

[Arkaign]

The new Focus replaces the old Focus per its class size: compact. Ford did not previously have an entry for current Fiesta which is a subcompact.

I agree, though if you've sat in a Fiesta (or a Fit, for that matter), you realize that other than the area where the hood is, the interior space is the same. The Fit and Fiesta use very small motor size and small engine compartment area to get down to 'subcompact' size.

Although the new Focus is still technically a 'compact', they're following the philosophy long seen in Europe where premium compacts are very acceptable. For a long time the US market was not ready for this. Now that it is, they're moving the Focus up (just look at those prices up there!), and sliding the Fiesta into the pricing of the outgoing entry-level Focus. Typical economy-minded folks who just want cheap reliable transportation that would have bought Focus before will get a Fiesta. People who want something a little more upmarket and with more features will go Focus now (people that might have bought VW, Mini Cooper, Mazda3s, etc) and pay the extra money.

Although the MSRP from the old Focus to the new one isn't drastically different, I don't think you'll see too many new Focuses selling for super cheap like the current ones. It also might be doubtful to see many of the cheapest models available other than to advertise the low starting MSRP.

One wtf moment though.

Rear drum brakes again? Wtf Ford 🙁 This is 2010, and you're kicking tail all over the place, but why, just why? Are discs that expensive?)

 

[Bignate603]

One wtf moment though.

Rear drum brakes again? Wtf Ford 🙁 This is 2010, and you're kicking tail all over the place, but why, just why? Are discs that expensive?)

Disc brakes are more expensive and 99% of the people that buy the car won't ever notice that they have drum brakes. That 1% that care will buy the ST which I would assume has discs at all 4 wheels.

Besides the ST this car isn't supposed to be an incredibly hot hatch/compact. It's supposed to have an interior of more upscale compacts at a lower price (which it does) and feel sporty. For somebody driving on normal roads, even if they're driving hard, they'll almost never get to the point where they would even notice the benefit from rear discs, so why add the extra expense? If you really want to romp on the car and will notice the difference then they want to move you up to the ST.

 

[Arkaign]

How cheap are drums vs. rotors though? When I look up the rotors at autozone or rockauto, they're pretty cheap for econocars. You'd think adding $10 cost per unit wouldn't be that big a deal, and should be worth it just to say full disc brakes in the marketing. My rear brakes haven't gone out yet, nor the front after 50k miles, but while I can do rotors+pads in 15 minutes, changing drum brakes makes me go a big rubbery one. I'll just end up taking it to someone who can deal with that.

 

[Gibson486]

So....is this car essentially the American Mazda 3?

 

[Arkaign]

So....is this car essentially the American Mazda 3?

Yes and no. Essentially the current Mazda3 gen ('04 to now, it's been refreshed on the same platform) was the Focus MK2 in Europe with different interior bits and exterior styling. The C1 platform remains essentially unchanged in all of the C1 cars (Volvo C30 is also on this). The 2012 Focus is a new evolution of the C-series platform, and IIRC the Mazda/Ford partnership is ending or diminishing, so the next Mazda3 due pretty soon, perhaps even for 2012/2013 as well, is likely to not be quite as similar.

For this reasoning, I wasn't too disappointed that the Euro Focus got a new gen starting in 04 and the US Focus stayed on refreshes. We had our choice of Euro Focus in Mazda clothing (Mazda3), or the lighter and more economical original design philosophy. ~2500-2600lbs vs. ~3000-3300lbs is quite a lot of difference when you're talking about 4-banger motors. My Focus is slow, though I've drag-raced the 2.3L Mazda3s 5-speed, and we're equally slow, but I've got much better fuel economy while the Mazda3 has better interior materials and styling. Personally I like the philosophy of economy cars being light, simple, and reliable.

Now that the Fiesta is able to take the baton as an entry-level dollar-saver, I'm fine with the premium Focus coming online with more weight, more features, and better materials and styling. If I had $20k+ to spend on a car, I'd be more likely to get a used G37 or a new Mustang V6, but I think the new Focus will sell well to it's intended market.

 

[ElFenix]

the fiesta is a bit smaller than the old zx3 was, interior-wise. about 4 inches of legroom lost between the front and back, and the rear seat is narrower than the zx3. also lost some cargo room. heck, the fiesta even lacks about 2.5" of legroom compared to the asspire.

 

[Arkaign]

the fiesta is a bit smaller than the old zx3 was, interior-wise. about 4 inches of legroom lost between the front and back, and the rear seat is narrower than the zx3. also lost some cargo room. heck, the fiesta even lacks about 2.5" of legroom compared to the asspire.

I hear ya, though I'm 6'3" with a pretty big frame and the Fiesta felt comfortable to me when I took a look at them recently. I wouldn't want to be in the backseat, but that goes for my current Focus coupe as well. It's sorta like the Fit vs. Civic thing, they're close enough that most people who would be fine in one would be fine in either, it comes down to budget and preferred package.

 

[PhoKingGuy]

How cheap are drums vs. rotors though? When I look up the rotors at autozone or rockauto, they're pretty cheap for econocars. You'd think adding $10 cost per unit wouldn't be that big a deal, and should be worth it just to say full disc brakes in the marketing. My rear brakes haven't gone out yet, nor the front after 50k miles, but while I can do rotors+pads in 15 minutes, changing drum brakes makes me go a big rubbery one. I'll just end up taking it to someone who can deal with that.

I hear ya, the VW community is going apeshit over what VWoA did to the new Jetta (twist beam suspension, drums in the back) but truth be told 95% of buyers dont care and can't tell the difference.

 

[Pulsar]

How cheap are drums vs. rotors though? When I look up the rotors at autozone or rockauto, they're pretty cheap for econocars. You'd think adding $10 cost per unit wouldn't be that big a deal, and should be worth it just to say full disc brakes in the marketing. My rear brakes haven't gone out yet, nor the front after 50k miles, but while I can do rotors+pads in 15 minutes, changing drum brakes makes me go a big rubbery one. I'll just end up taking it to someone who can deal with that.

Profit per vehicle in the automarket is often as low as $100 on cars the size of the Focus. The Fiesta size vehicles are almost all money-losers across the board (all manufacturers). They are gateway cars, however, and you can't afford to not be selling Fiestas and making a good impression with them because they'll lead to Fusions, or Trucks, or even Lincolns.

Adding $10 / rear tire for a total of $20 removes 20% of your profit for that vehicle. Do you plan on refreshing in the next two years? You might have just erased that possibility by removing 20% of your profits.

 

[jaydee]

Profit per vehicle in the automarket is often as low as $100 on cars the size of the Focus. The Fiesta size vehicles are almost all money-losers across the board (all manufacturers). They are gateway cars, however, and you can't afford to not be selling Fiestas and making a good impression with them because they'll lead to Fusions, or Trucks, or even Lincolns.

Adding $10 / rear tire for a total of $20 removes 20% of your profit for that vehicle. Do you plan on refreshing in the next two years? You might have just erased that possibility by removing 20% of your profits.

The Ford Fiesta is being sold at a rather high pricetag considering the amount of metal, is on a global platform and it's assembled in Mexico. The Fiesta is not a money-loser.

 

[rcpratt]

I love the look of this, but I've never driven a car that small. Not sure how I feel about that.

I still really like the look of the new Fusions ('10-'11), so we'll see. My dad saw some early pictures of the new '12 Fusion at work a few weeks ago and said they looked awesome, so I might try to hold out for that.

 

[theeedude]

I love the look of this, but I've never driven a car that small. Not sure how I feel about that.

I still really like the look of the new Fusions ('10-'11), so we'll see. My dad saw some early pictures of the new '12 Fusion at work a few weeks ago and said they looked awesome, so I might try to hold out for that.

Hatchbacks look a lot smaller than they really are. Test drive a Mazda3, that should give you a good idea of what Focus size will be.

 

[Lotheron]

I will be in the market for a Focus ST to replace my current 07 Mazda6s 5MT

 

[Arkaign]

I will be in the market for a Focus ST to replace my current 07 Mazda6s 5MT

That should be a pretty nice move, from a solid car to a very cool new one. I imagine we'll see some ~280hp-300hp tunes for the ST after a little bit of time.

 

[Mermaidman]

Is it just me or is anyone else disappointed by the Fiesta and potentially the Focus? Reviews of the Fiesta say good, but not great, and the Focus's front end appearance isn't to my liking.

Perhaps I was expecting too much, but the hype the hype!

 

[Arkaign]

Is it just me or is anyone else disappointed by the Fiesta and potentially the Focus? Reviews of the Fiesta say good, but not great, and the Focus's front end appearance isn't to my liking.

Perhaps I was expecting too much, but the hype the hype!

Yeah I know what you mean. I think a lot of it is just unrealistic expectations. The Fiesta (and Mazda2) are probably about as good as subcompacts can really get. You're still going to have a tiny vehicle bobbing around on the road with a tiny motor. On the streets of Tokyo or London, doing 15-40mph, they're probably ideal. For cruising around the US, jumping on the freeway and merging with traffic doing 80mph, while being surrounded constantly by 2-3 ton SUVs, trucks, and other land yachts is just too hairy for a lot of people.

 

[PhoKingGuy]

I will be in the market for a Focus ST to replace my current 07 Mazda6s 5MT

Looks like I'll be doing the same thing once the reviews come out. I don't think I can stand to drive my TDI for that much longer, lol.

 

[Pulsar]

The Ford Fiesta is being sold at a rather high pricetag considering the amount of metal, is on a global platform and it's assembled in Mexico. The Fiesta is not a money-loser.

You're right. The new Fiesta is one of the first "B" segment cars across all the manufacturers that will make money.

I believe that is why I said, specifically, Fiesta "sized", and "almost all".

Your "rather high pricetag" is your own opinion. The simple fact is that the Fiesta is priced to be competitive against other cars in it's class with similar trim levels.

The other simple fact is obvious. If you want better brakes, more options, or a coffee maker, that price is going to increase the Fiesta even more. They will NOT leave the price where it is and add content and turn it into a money loser. Which, as I said, is exactly why it has drum brakes: they saved $100 bucks (or however much it did save) and that may be 20% of the cars total profit margin.

http://green.autoblog.com/2008/03/0...be-well-equipped-and-profitable-from-the-sta/

 

[PhoKingGuy]

You're right. The new Fiesta is one of the first "B" segment cars across all the manufacturers that will make money.

I believe that is why I said, specifically, Fiesta "sized", and "almost all".

Your "rather high pricetag" is your own opinion. The simple fact is that the Fiesta is priced to be competitive against other cars in it's class with similar trim levels.

The other simple fact is obvious. If you want better brakes, more options, or a coffee maker, that price is going to increase the Fiesta even more. They will NOT leave the price where it is and add content and turn it into a money loser. Which, as I said, is exactly why it has drum brakes: they saved $100 bucks (or however much it did save) and that may be 20% of the cars total profit margin.

http://green.autoblog.com/2008/03/0...be-well-equipped-and-profitable-from-the-sta/

I got to drive one a few weeks ago. Interior seems dead on ringer for VW/Audi quality.

 

[Pocatello]

I got to drive one a few weeks ago. Interior seems dead on ringer for VW/Audi quality.

Are you still talking about the Ford Fiesta? I like the Fiesta, especially the 5-speed manual, interior is good, everything seems well-made, but it's still an economy car.

 

[Bateluer]

Cripes, I want to buy a new vehicle. Was just looking at 2011 Focus models the other day. I'm thinking next year, if I can put up a 6K down payment, I may go for it.

 

[PhoKingGuy]

Are you still talking about the Ford Fiesta? I like the Fiesta, especially the 5-speed manual, interior is good, everything seems well-made, but it's still an economy car.

Fiesta

 

[Arkaign]

Cripes, I want to buy a new vehicle. Was just looking at 2011 Focus models the other day. I'm thinking next year, if I can put up a 6K down payment, I may go for it.

Wait and either way you're set. The current Focus with a 5spd is a great drive and fantastic fuel economy, the 4spd auto not so much. When the '12s roll out, the '11s will be CHEAP I imagine, even cheaper than they are now. Go test one for sure. The '12s are exciting as well, a totally different and more modern/lux approach to the compact segment.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Yeah I know what you mean. I think a lot of it is just unrealistic expectations. The Fiesta (and Mazda2) are probably about as good as subcompacts can really get. You're still going to have a tiny vehicle bobbing around on the road with a tiny motor. On the streets of Tokyo or London, doing 15-40mph, they're probably ideal. For cruising around the US, jumping on the freeway and merging with traffic doing 80mph, while being surrounded constantly by 2-3 ton SUVs, trucks, and other land yachts is just too hairy for a lot of people.

Having had experience of driving in England and the US, I have to say the average speed of traffic is higher in England. Not only that, but we have just as many dumb SUV drivers and as many if not more 40 ton trucks. A 1.4 litre Fiesta is more than capable of doing 80-90mph on the motorway, in fact even that crappy Toyota Aygo (1.0 Litre, 70hp) I've had for the last month seems to sit at 80Mph quite happily.

Just adding a little balance. Small != not capable.

 

[Demo24]

Cripes, I want to buy a new vehicle. Was just looking at 2011 Focus models the other day. I'm thinking next year, if I can put up a 6K down payment, I may go for it.

Even thought the 2011's will be real cheap come early next year, there's no way I would choose one of those over a new 2012 model. The current focus is still based off the model introduced around 1999, not a whole lot has changed there. If this 2012 model drives anything like what the european ones have for the past few years then it will be a far more entertaining place to spend time.