Morality without religion or god(s)

[TraumaRN]

So I feel I should say this first, I realize I'm potentially opening a can of worms with this thread, and potentially testing the potential limits of this new forum. I sincerely hope not as the discussions so far seem very civil and well argued. With that out of the way onwards to the topic at hand.

Morality without religion or god(s). This has been a quietly hot button issue in my life over the last few months especially because I'm an atheist. I believe myself to be literal anecdotal proof that you don't need religion to be moral. I believe the function of morality is make life around us more ordered, to make coexisting with others less of a struggle. I believe we are rational animals who can make a reasoned and intelligent choices regarding cause/effect of our actions, and that morality allows us to live happier, more harmonious, more peaceful lives. Morality should allow to live our lives without suffering, or at least minimize any suffering.

But whenever I end up in a discussion of morals with people, I find my lack of belief in god being thrown back in my face. Such as one of the doctor's I work with saying that without God she wouldn't have the strength to care for sick people and that without God her patients would die because she wouldn't care as much about that, and that without God you just can't be moral and just. Let's just say when she said that I immediately recused myself. Let me just say for the record how terrifying it is to hear someone claim they need God or anything else to be able to care for sick people. It makes me think you have no empathy, no ability to care for others. As an aside this same doctor refused to give Plan B to a rape victim in our ER because her religion and morals wouldn't allow her to do that. Thankfully another provider stepped in to help, but I digress(that will be another thread I think). It goes without saying I try to avoid working with this particular doctor.

The second example was one of my former friends, I broke the news to her I was atheist and her reaction was not good. She told me that I had turned away from God and towards evil and that she couldn't trust me because I didn't have God as a proverbial anchor for my morals.

Which brings me to my point for debate. I personally think that part of the problems specifically in America is our moral beliefs. I think too many of the people in power use religion as a basis for morals and it is causing massive amounts of harm. I believe that we have a massive lack of critical thinking as a society at large. We are too selfish, too enamored with this idea of "I'm self reliant you should be too, if you aren't you get nothing!" My own profession of health care is the perfect example of that. Why in 2013 do people have to make a choice between paying for food and keeping the lights on or paying for their own health. That is morally reprehensible to me. Cheap(or free access) to health should be a basic human right for EVERYONE, regardless of your circumstances. And let me be clear on my final point, I'm not advocating atheism by any means here, I'm advocating for using critical thinking, reason and intelligence to build a more moral society. Sorry if I got a little wordy!

 

[Nebor]

You had me until you started advocating for your own slavery.

 

[Ausm]

Morality because of Religion is laughable at best.....

 

[Soundmanred]

potentially testing the potential limits of this new forum.

Wrong forum.

 

[TheVrolok]

"Morality is the herd instinct in the individual."

 

[TraumaRN]

You had me until you started advocating for your own slavery.

Explain?

 

[Matt1970]

Well, stop discussing religion with people.

 

[soulcougher73]

I have better morals than most religious people i know. Im an athiest as well.

Morals dont require religion in the slightest. Religion just incorporated basic morals into their teaching was all.

 

[waggy]

damn. you jump all over the place. you make it harder then it needs to be to know exactly WTF you want.

Ethics and morals are not the sole domain of religion.

 

[TraumaRN]

I have better morals than most religious people i know. Im an athiest as well.

Morals dont require religion in the slightest. Religion just incorporated basic morals into their teaching was all.

But do you think its gone too far now? Religion as I see it in America and a few other countries tries to force its morals on others even if those morals are reprehensible in a modern society.

 

[Ausm]

I have better morals than most religious people i know. Im an athiest as well.

Morals dont require religion in the slightest. Religion just incorporated basic morals into their teaching was all.

I often wondered how people on the Religious right who have no problem telling the sick and poor to get fucked consider themselves moral....:whiste:

 

[pauldun170]

Morality is the name we give to conduct that benefits society as a whole.
Moral behavior came before religion and codified morality predates every popular religion in place today.
As population density increased, codified morality had to adjust to handle the scale but the key things don't change much.

Religion as we know it just documented it and then mixed it up with a dragons and bestiality and spaghetti monster bullshit.

Moral behavior predates codified moral constructs predate religion as we know it..

terrifying it is to hear someone claim they need God

Stop being such a whiney little bitch. If someone needs to believe in a deity to keep from putting on their underwear backwards on every day then mind your business and let them live their lives as they see fit.

My mother in law needs to touch at least 3 walls in any room she enters.
Friend of mine has a lucky hat he wears for foot ball games.
My cat licks herself violently whenever she is pet?
Why? Who the fuck cares.

The doctor doesn't understand how you can shit properly without god guiding the turd from your anus.
That's his problem. Not yours

Former friend - Did you read what you wrote? She went Star wars on you and claimed you went to the dark side of the force.
Bitch is crazy or bitch is stupid.
Or maybe she is a nice, well rounded person who played "just the tip" with an atheist years ago and it ended up different than what she expected.

I think the issue here is that you need to remember that religion is a personal thing, much like your belief that their is no god(s).
If someone turns into a douchebag, standing on a stoop broadcasting their religious beliefs thenm the issue is that they are a douchebag, not the religion itself.
Some people need the structure that religion provides.
I believe people are entitled to that.

sincerely,
Militant agnostic

 

[soulcougher73]

But do you think its gone too far now? Religion as I see it in America and a few other countries tries to force its morals on others even if those morals are reprehensible in a modern society.

Yeah i think religious people be crazy. Ive given up on them. They are hopeless in my opinion. That is what early life brainwashing does though.

May as well beat your head against a wall instead of trying to debate a religious person.

 

[JEDIYoda]

So I feel I should say this first, I realize I'm potentially opening a can of worms with this thread, and potentially testing the potential limits of this new forum. I sincerely hope not as the discussions so far seem very civil and well argued. With that out of the way onwards to the topic at hand.

Wrong forum.....the new forum is called The Debate Club....

This is still the old P&N.....get a grip son.....

 

[TraumaRN]

Yeah this is what I get for posting half asleep.

 

[Retro Rob]

Many people are good, eithical, moral without religion. Some religious folks are theives, liars, fornicators, etc. So, you can be an upright person without religion.

Religion is supposed to be an institution designed to draw people closer to their Creator, with morals being established on the way to this goal -- learning what God requires.

Too bad religion failed to reach the goal of drawing people close to God and heading a morally upright organization. Yet we see equal corruption, immoral and even inhumane behavior at times, throughout history and even in the present.

 

[Moonbeam]

Yeah i think religious people be crazy. Ive given up on them. They are hopeless in my opinion. That is what early life brainwashing does though.

May as well beat your head against a wall instead of trying to debate a religious person.

Or debate somebody like you who knows that it's ALL childhood brainwashing.

 

[xj0hnx]

Morals for the most part are a function of society, and how one is raised.

 

[Mursilis]

I have better morals than most religious people i know.

And so much more humble, too!

The vast majority think highly of their own morals, you included, apparently.

 

[DrPizza]

(was this originally in debate club? I'm seeing it in P&N. Nonetheless, I'll give it a polite response.)

Morality. Some say you need religion to have morality.

Stoning adulterers, punishing people for working on the Sabbath, forcing women to wear veils, killing women because they had been raped, forbidding women from being educated, forbidding women to be leaders within the church, condemning people for the genetics they've been born with (homosexuality)... The list goes on and on of things that religions find, or have found in the past to be morally right.

I'd prefer to think of right and wrong as things that are reasoned out. Is it okay to kill my neighbor? I don't need a God or some scripture to tell me that's wrong.

In fact, I'd be willing to submit that an atheistic morality - one that uses reason - is more "moral" than a religiously based morality.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

I think the OP meant to put it in the DC but put it here instead.

 

[Mursilis]

I often wondered how people on the Religious right who have no problem telling the sick and poor to get fucked consider themselves moral....:whiste:

And Sir Strawman rides in on his straw horse. This thread is now complete.

 

[HumblePie]

Morality comes from self preservation and nothing more.

Think about that for a bit and you'll understand what I mean.

 

[DrPizza]

Do you really think telling someone to kill their own child, then intervening at the very last moment is morally right?? (Abraham, Isaac)

What if a husband said to his wife, "if you love me, you'll slice the throat of our baby" - then just as the wife is about to slice the baby's throat, he stops her and says, "I was testing you. Now I know you love me." Seriously, wtf?! That's morally right??

How dare the religious) judge the morals of Atheists.

(Yes, I know, the story is how God is saying not to do human sacrifices, as other religions of that era were practicing - let me repeat that: other religions were practicing human sacrifice.)

 

[Mursilis]

I'd prefer to think of right and wrong as things that are reasoned out. Is it okay to kill my neighbor? I don't need a God or some scripture to tell me that's wrong.

All the good moral dilemmas are more complicated than that. What if your neighbor was loading his gun and saying you were about to get yours? Still wrong to kill him?

In fact, I'd be willing to submit that an atheistic morality - one that uses reason - is more "moral" than a religiously based morality.

You assume all religiously-affiliated moral codes ignore reason. That's incorrect.