Moral dilemma over CPU QX9650 price

[BlueAcolyte]

Except that the BE are about identically priced to their normal versions and the EEs aren't.

 

[Soubriquet]

So there is no way to raise the multiplier using the same software then? So presumably its ceiling is hardware locked? Or is that what they WANT you to think ! j/k

If so that means a Q9450 would be stuck at FSB X7, which even with 450 FSB (DDR3-1800) would only get you to 3.15 GHz.

Since I have 3.6 out of it already and am expecting this chip to hit 4GHz + in due course it seems like it may have been a better choice than I really appreciated at the time I made it. (But then I would say that wouldn't I )

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: Soubriquet
So there is no way to raise the multiplier using the same software then? So presumably its ceiling is hardware locked? Or is that what they WANT you to think ! j/k

If so that means a Q9450 would be stuck at FSB X7, which even with 450 FSB (DDR3-1800) would only get you to 3.15 GHz.

Since I have 3.6 out of it already and am expecting this chip to hit 4GHz + in due course it seems like it may have been a better choice than I really appreciated at the time I made it. (But then I would say that wouldn't I )

Q9450 has an 8x multi...but yes, otherwise you are thinking correctly about the situation.

 

[coldpower27]

QX9650 is the best, the best typically costs large amounts of money, you get what you pay for so to speak. Though I personally don't think I would derive ~700USD worth of happiness from the QX9650 over a cheaper Q9450 though. But that is my personal opinion, if you have the money and it makes you content go for it!

 

[Soubriquet]

8x what was I thinking? (Q9350 perhaps) which makes it a 3.6 ceiling with DDR1800 in fact that is pretty good value all things considered. If you want to save a bit, you can get Q9450 and top DDR3 and mobo so you can clock the FSB.

But the impression I get is that a QX9650 is more than an unlocked Q9450, in that it has been cherry picked for the top clock it can reach, therefore the Q9450 bin will be missing all the top clockers that will be reserved for QX9650. Is that right ?

 

[Idontcare]

I doubt Intel cherry picked their wolfdales to make special edition QX9650's.

Its simply unnecessary (no competition) as they aren't attempting to guarantee anything but stock clockspeeds and technically anything you do to find out if it clocks higher than that will void your warranty...so.

However they did say back in Dec last year that when the initial "high FSB limitations" of the forthcoming Yorkfields was outed by the chipset makers that the FSB issues did not effect XEON or QX9650/QX9775 because supposedly those quads are made from wolfdales of a different stepping than what the run-of-the-mill yorkfields were being MCM'ed with.

So obviously something was going to be different between a Q9450 and a QX9650, at least until they discovered the FSB limitation issue with the Q9450 and lower yorkfields.

My expectation is that they "remedy" the gap by converting all yorkfields to the same magical Xeon stepping and sidestep the FSB signal/noise quality issues alltogether...which would then eliminate any technical differences between a QX9650 and a Q9450 other than their brute electrical performance characteristics that enables one to clock higher at stock voltages relative to the other.

 

[Roy2001]

Originally posted by: Soubriquet
....... However speedstep takes the multiplier down to 6X when not in use. This is puzzling me, since I paid for an unlocked chip, but wont all penryns be able to use speedstep, regardless of whther they are unlocked or not ? And if that is so then does that mean that there may be a software route towards <<<hacking oops sorry I mean modifying the multiplier of the locked chips?

If so then doesnt that make the price premium less justified ?


Checkout the mod's sticky at the top of the forum.
Markfw900 Anandtech Moderator

You can always turn of C1E, however, multiplier down to 6x during idle would save power.

 

[Soubriquet]

I let speedstep do its job having applied the MS tweak KB896256.

Overview

Install this update to fix a situation where your Windows-based system that supports processor power management features, and is equipped with multiple processors, may experience decreased performance. After you install this item, you may have to restart your computer.

I dont know what stage they cherry pick IDontCare, but they presumably must at least sort the packaged product into speed bins.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: Soubriquet
I dont know what stage they cherry pick IDontCare, but they presumably must at least sort the packaged product into speed bins.

Well the definition of "cherry picked" varies from person to person, but what I take it to mean in this context is that Intel doesn't intentionally bin out super high GHz wolfdales (say 3.8GHz or 4GHz) specially for MCM'ing into a QX9650 to clock at 3GHz speeds.

If they ordinarily bin wolfdales of say 3.1GHz performance and higher to have a 3GHz MCM quad then I'd expect them to do no differently for a QX quad over just a standard Q quad.

When you see folks talk about cherry-picking for after market consumers they are usually meaning that say a part has already been speed-binned and you have a whole bucket full of 3GHz QX9650's. Then you speedbin again and find the "cherry" quads of the bucket, the ones that hit 4+GHz say. Then you send only those chips to reviewers so they pass off as if the whole product SKU has teh uber overclock capability.

Back in the initial celeron days (300A and 333) there were online vendors (atacom for example) that would pre-test the overclockability of celerons and sell them at a premium as for their known cherry-picked capabilities.

But it costs a lot of effort and manpower to go to these lengths. It is usually a tactict reserved for the underdog trying to use marketing to get a leg up on their competitors superior offerings. That is why I doubt Intel would bother to do it now of all times, there's simply nothing in it for them to go to the extra trouble.

 

[aigomorla]

suprised this thread is still up.

Well, i tested my QX, and i have to agree on one thing. Its definitely a good buy.



:T

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: Soubriquet
I find I can encompass an extra negative without ceasing to be ambivalent, I am sorry if you cannot do the same, I will bear that in mind in future, however I am not sure you represent the majority perception. I think actually you are indulging in egotic oneupmanship as a face saving exercise rather than considering the questions the OP and poll raise.

I think use of the word moral is appropriate.

I don't like zsdersw's "tone" much, but you are clearly showing a preference in the way that your questions are couched.

 

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: Soubriquet
zsdersw you should know I play Sup Com on a single core and want a quad badly while I also used to work for OXFAM in corporate fundraising. When I say I am ambivalent it aint no lie fella.

Originally posted by: Idontcare

You are making a priori assumptions regarding where that extra $800 ultimately ends up once it leaves your checking account.

Any idea on how many mouths Intel feeds by way of paying employees? Or how many mouths those employees feed by way of them donating portions of their paychecks to said charitable efforts?

The money just cycles around and around, from employee to employee or dividend holder or third-party supplier to Intel, and from there it filters into governments and service sectors. Around and around.

I fail to see a moral conundrum here no matter where you send your money, it will ultimately pass thru the hands of someone who needs it.

Well thats an interesting argument and has some elements of truth to it except the bit about me making assumptions, of course . I tend to assume that when I pay Scan £650 it all goes to Scan & HMRC taxman. A proportion goes to Intel who may well be philanthropic (despite the chairmans harsh criticism of OLPC kekeke) and then to the employees and shareholders who I am sure include as many philanthropic folk as any gathering of humanity the world over. All of it feeds back into the economy and the economy grows. In growing it provides wealth and by wealth I mean manufacturing potential that allows us to help each other more and more. That is the beauty of cooperation after all. But the proportion of growth that is realised as direct aid is dependant on the decision at some point in the chain to divert funds in that direction. And that aid is also investment for growth btw with a longer term payback cycle. (Notice how I didn't assume you assumed the opposite of what I was saying there.)

Who else will do it if I dont? How can I expect others to do it if I wont? I know that if I choose to direct £400 to OXFAM for example (as I understand how their system works) then a very much higher percentage of that is going to be used directly to assist those in need than would otherwise get there. They will have £400 more than they would otherwise have and more people will get help as a result than if I spent the money on the chip.

It is not a question of absolutes I agree and the whole argument for following the personal "path of increase" for the benefit of everyone adds to the difficulty in deciding which is the right choice, if you see what I mean ? In other words I accept the other argument that you cant spend your life worrying about everyone else you have have a responsibility to look after yourself. This is also true and moral in its own way.

So I feel like I have two responsibilities, one for myself and for one for others and actually both are true, its just a question of degree and proportion.



NinjaJedi I completely agree with everything you say there. Only consider this, I have spare cash, in fact for one reason and another I actually have to spend some of it, a bit like that film Brewsters Millions with Richard Prior. So I could easily afford the chip, the question that is bugging me is how should I really spend it?

you mean that you just inherited $30 million but if you blow it all in 30 days you get $300 million???? wow, that's cool! I have a nice big iceberg for sale right now