Monsanto or How concerned are you about Genetically modified food?

[Zivic]

I work for a plant tissue culture company and love how my boss framed this issue. To paraphrase him "Farmers in the U.S. used to grow a bounty of crops with great pesticides. Consumers would just need to wash it off. Now we're hurting our farmers by banning the use of these pesticides because of environmental or health reasons yet we import these same crops from nations that use the same banned pesticides we used to. The only way american farmers can compete now is to put these chemicals INSIDE crops via genetic engineering. Obviously we are no longer able to wash those off..."

there is some truth to this... but the damage to the environment is not a trivial thing. these pesticides can kill off plenty of "good" insects, and easily polute ground and surface water... those things don't just "wash off"

I saw mention of BT in this thread. we have grown BT corn. It does allow for less pesticides. but it is far from ideal for fresh market produce. the protein that protects the corn from the worm is only produced while the plant/cob is growing. once the silk dries the protein is no longer produced and the insect is free to eat away and damage the crop. thus, you need to still spray to prevent the insect damage. You don't spray, you get worms. you get worms, no body will buy

 

[Zivic]

As a Chef with 30 years experience feeding people all over the country, I can't say unequivocally produce has taken a nose dive in quality over those 30 years. There have been a few exceptions but, those growers have all been using 'heirloom' varieties and selling locally.

The always in season mentality has caused what you are referring to.

everyone expects everything to be available any time of year. the old mentality of "in season" produce has gone out the window. As a result, farmers are producing varieties that can be stored/shipped longer times and distances. as this happens, farmers are focusing on the visuals, because to be flat out honest, that's what sells produce.

All that said, GMO can and does produce better tasting varieties. I mainly grow sweet corn and varieties are getting better and better all the time

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

The always in season mentality has caused what you are referring to.

everyone expects everything to be available any time of year. the old mentality of "in season" produce has gone out the window. As a result, farmers are producing varieties that can be stored/shipped longer times and distances. as this happens, farmers are focusing on the visuals, because to be flat out honest, that's what sells produce.

All that said, GMO can and does produce better tasting varieties. I mainly grow sweet corn and varieties are getting better and better all the time

And you're parroting what the grocery stores (read buyers) tell everyone, that they only stock what customers demand. I say again, bullshit. Consumers buy whatever the stores stock. Buyers, stores and complicit growers all choose to carry everything all the time. No major chain has EVER stepped forward and said we're only going to carry produce that's in season.

It wouldn't matter anyway because those same buyers and stores have trained America for the last 30 years to like green fruit and unripe vegetables. Just like more people prefer margarine over butter. Most of ATOT have never tasted a good piece of fruit or a ripe vegetable because the grocery stores haven't stocked them since they were born.

 

[Anarchist420]

This was a government created problem.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

This was a government created problem.

Take it back to P & N. Government had nothing to do with it unless, you include making it easier for corporations to screw us.

 

[waggy]

They don't have any choice and btw, most farms are owned by corporations.

true.

but the situation is worse then you say. That farmer who is surrounded by corp farms (who use monsanto roundup ready due to contracts) gets fucked. IF any seeds blow into his yard he is forced to buy the seeds or his crop can be destroyed or sued into oblivion.

not to mention good luck buying NONE monsanto seeds.


also there is debate on the roundup ready corn. sure it is resistant to bugs. but they are finding the bugs are getting resistant to that. Also there is debate on what that corn is doing to the soil.

 

[1prophet]

I am more concerned that Monsanto is abusing intellectual property laws to go after farmers whose crops have been contaminated by Monsanto products unknowingly through natural cross pollination and then sue the same farmers.


http://www.infowars.com/monsantos-b...strategy-to-extend-copyright-into-perpetuity/

Genetically engineered soy first appeared illegally in Brazil in the 1990’s, smuggled in from neighboring Argentina. The Brazilian farmers found the seed attractive despite the ban in place from the Brazilian authorities because Monsanto had specifically designed the seed to be resistant to its own immensely powerful and popular herbicide Roundup.
When used in tandem, the strong herbicide will kill the weeds while allowing the soy crops to grow unimpeded. After the ban was lifted, genetically modified seed flooded the Brazilian market, and now 85 per cent of the Brazilian soy crop is genetically-engineered. Soy has been extremely successful in Brazil, currently making up 26 per cent of the country’s farm exports last year and netting Brazil a total of $24.1 billion, according to AP. However, Brazil’s farmers were apparently unaware there would be a heavy price to pay.
To make a deal with Monsanto is to make a deal with a company that is one the most powerful and pervasive food giants in the world. It is the world’s number one seed developer, and its patented genes have been inserted into 95 per cent of all American soy, and 80 per cent of all American corn crops. Monsanto has repeatedly levied large damage suits against independent farmers that have unknowingly or unwittingly used their seed

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Take it back to P & N. Government had nothing to do with it unless, you include making it easier for corporations to screw us.

Government subsidizes farmers by using a price floor and keeping the price for certain crops high.This means farmers have more incentives to grow more crops year round and thus use either more pesticides or alternate methods to limit the damage pests have on their crops which are worth more to them with a government enacted price floor.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Government subsidizes farmers by using a price floor and keeping the price for certain crops high.This means farmers have more incentives to grow more crops year round and thus use either more pesticides or alternate methods to limit the damage pests have on their crops which are worth more to them with a government enacted price floor.

Yes but, that is a separate issue from genetically modified foods. Monsanto has certainly gamed the system but, they are still responsible for offering Americans poor foodstuffs.

 

[Cerb]

I'm not thrilled by GMO but what really bothers me is when they don't tell me what is in my food. Give me the information I need to decide exactly what I want to feed my family.

+1.

I'm not categorically against GMOs. I am, however, categorically against Monsanto. Time and time again, non-GMOs are able to perform as well as, or better than, GMOs, except in cases where making GMOs is needed to save the species. That propaganda works both ways, except that the hybridized non-GMO plants don't rely on specific Monsanto product and technique lock-in.

It wouldn't matter anyway because those same buyers and stores have trained America for the last 30 years to like green fruit and unripe vegetables. Just like more people prefer margarine over butter. Most of ATOT have never tasted a good piece of fruit or a ripe vegetable because the grocery stores haven't stocked them since they were born.

It's especially bad for greens, now. They don't ripen right once taken home (is it from the radiation treatment ruining enzymes and bacteria I want munching on dead leafiness? Is it residual pesticide or herbicide bits interfering? something else?), don't taste right, and don't ferment right. It used to be farmers market greens were better, but now it's a night and day difference, most of the time.

Also, whatever they do to pineapples these days sucks, too. It seems in the past few years, only about half I've bought would ripen more than when I bought them, instead just going bad without the associated ripening process.

 

[bradley]

No doubt, this book published in 2003 is sorely due for a revision. However, it's still one of the better books on the subject of GMOs, especially for those weary from lobbyist doublespeak.

Seeds of Deception: Exposing Industry and Government Lies About the Safety of the Genetically Engineered Foods You're Eating
by Jeffrey M. Smith
http://www.amazon.com/Seeds-Deceptio.../dp/0972966587

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Yes but, that is a separate issue from genetically modified foods. Monsanto has certainly gamed the system but, they are still responsible for offering Americans poor foodstuffs.

GMO's, their development and their demand by corporate farmers in the marketplace are a direct by product of these market entities looking for alternatives methods to protect their crops from pests without resorting to the use of more pesticides (As this just results in negative press and a lesser product in some cases) and a attempt to increase their yields in order to take advantage of the incentives provided by our federal government's subsides in the form of a price floor.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

How we gonna feed 2 billion Indians otherwise?

 

[Pr0d1gy]

Concerned but not much we can do about it.

 

[Cerb]

How we gonna feed 2 billion Indians otherwise?

Teach them how to distribute and prepare food?

I'm in the U.S. I can drive 7-8 miles and buy foods imported from India*. If they have enough to export, how is it they don't have enough to feed their own?

Then again, if we do need to feed them, I don't see how farm subsidies are a GMO-solvable problem. We need to treat the land better (also, the Gulf), grow more varied crops, and in general, grow far less corn and soy, if we are planning primarily on feeding people.

Either way, I see politics and greed as much more important problems in this scenario than agricultural technology and its efficacy.

* though it's surprising how much is actually from the midwest or Canada, despite the same products not being readily available under western brand names.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

GMO's, their development and their demand by corporate farmers in the marketplace are a direct by product of these market entities looking for alternatives methods to protect their crops from pests without resorting to the use of more pesticides (As this just results in negative press and a lesser product in some cases) and a attempt to increase their yields in order to take advantage of the incentives provided by our federal government's subsides in the form of a price floor.

I believe you have the 'cart before the horse.' Monsanto engineered the GMO's to control what, how and, where food is grown. The other corporation's are trying to game the system as you say but, that is not what drives Monsanto. They are only interested in legal monopoly.

 

[waggy]

I am more concerned that Monsanto is abusing intellectual property laws to go after farmers whose crops have been contaminated by Monsanto products unknowingly through natural cross pollination and then sue the same farmers.


http://www.infowars.com/monsantos-b...strategy-to-extend-copyright-into-perpetuity/

/this

they also have a near monopoly on seed.

 

[Circlenaut]

there is some truth to this... but the damage to the environment is not a trivial thing. these pesticides can kill off plenty of "good" insects, and easily polute ground and surface water... those things don't just "wash off"

I saw mention of BT in this thread. we have grown BT corn. It does allow for less pesticides. but it is far from ideal for fresh market produce. the protein that protects the corn from the worm is only produced while the plant/cob is growing. once the silk dries the protein is no longer produced and the insect is free to eat away and damage the crop. thus, you need to still spray to prevent the insect damage. You don't spray, you get worms. you get worms, no body will buy

Yes, but in a way we're just outsourcing the environmental problem. Why should american farmers compete against farmers around the world using unfair techniques? If the shit can't be grown in the U.S. we shouldn't be importing it unless it meets standards imposed on american farmers.

 

[nextJin]

I am a strict Paleo consumer and damn near all of my meats and produce are grown locally with free roaming animals eating grass (or whatever they naturally eat) and organic fruits and vegetables.

It is a very difficult lifestyle and although I hate Monsanto for a variety of reasons, Americans would be in a world of shit if all of a sudden they could only live this way. Things have to be canned and stocked, packaged away and during the winter I can't goto the store to buy fruits.

I live this way because I met a man who was over 70 and looked 40 who had lived this lifestyle. Being in the community I have met others and I do not believe I have ever met someone who has had heart disease, fat, gotten cancer, or any other common Western illnesses.

I cannot say there is a link but after living this way for a few years now I probably could never eat some of the things people eat without feeling horrible afterwards.