Monopolies are good for the monopolists, not the public

[nobodyknows]

So according to this link that I posted previously:

http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/vaccination/vaccinesupply.htm

As of 1/29/10 there were 147,323,810 does allocated, 119,086,300 ordered, and 118,922,220 shipped. So if you subtract 118,922,220 from 147,323,810 you have aproximately 28,300,000 does left. Take away the 12,000,000 does being recalled and you still have over 16 million does avaialable. And I assume they are still making more as we speak?

•Allocated: Doses that are at the distribution depots and ready for states to order. Vaccine is allocated to each state in proportion to its population (pro rata)
•Ordered: Doses requested by states as of 9 PM ET for shipment to state-designated locations
•Shipped: Doses sent as of 5 PM ET from the central distributor to state-designated locations

Gee, it seems to me the CDC is right on top of things even with all the bad breaks. Maybe, just maybe the "gub'ment" can do as good a job managing health care?

Still waiting for you to address this post.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Well this isn't going well.

If there is so much out there why didn't we and others have it? If a product is produced, but not shipped in a timely way then what use is it?

It seems that the distribution system which is controlled by the government has issues.

So Medicaid is a cluster, government would rather save ten cents than have a dollar, and politicians who are in the pocket of industry are the hope we have because the government will get the industry out of the politicians. That last trick was a good one.

I'll tell you what though. For the remainder of this thread, I'm going to follow Craig's example.

*click*

Oh Craig, you needn't respond, but the point I was trying to make earlier is that government control of medicine is a de facto monopoly, since they would be in charge. My problem is that programs like Medicaid which have existed for decades haven't been addressed. When an employee (and the government works for us, sometimes better than others) shows a continual resistance to take care of his responsibility but then claims that giving more control and authority will fix the issue I'm skeptical. The track record for existing health care run by government isn't stellar.

It would really be best if people stopped bitching who should control the dollars and start looking at things holistically and systemically, define the issues sans political hyperbole and formulate solutions which politicians can use for reform.

There's not much interest in that, and that's another reason I'm not a little bit suspicious.

 

[nobodyknows]

Well this isn't going well.

If there is so much out there why didn't we and others have it? If a product is produced, but not shipped in a timely way then what use is it?

It seems that the distribution system which is controlled by the government has issues.

So Medicaid is a cluster, government would rather save ten cents than have a dollar, and politicians who are in the pocket of industry are the hope we have because the government will get the industry out of the politicians. That last trick was a good one.

I'll tell you what though. For the remainder of this thread, I'm going to follow Craig's example.

*click*

Oh Craig, you needn't respond, but the point I was trying to make earlier is that government control of medicine is a de facto monopoly, since they would be in charge. My problem is that programs like Medicaid which have existed for decades haven't been addressed. When an employee (and the government works for us, sometimes better than others) shows a continual resistance to take care of his responsibility but then claims that giving more control and authority will fix the issue I'm skeptical. The track record for existing health care run by government isn't stellar.

It would really be best if people stopped bitching who should control the dollars and start looking at things holistically and systemically, define the issues sans political hyperbole and formulate solutions which politicians can use for reform.

There's not much interest in that, and that's another reason I'm not a little bit suspicious.

No, it isn't going well. The health care sytem as we know it isn't working. Costs keep skyrocketing out of control and hacks such as yourself want to put all the blame on the government and politicians. Contrary to popular myth the government can and does solve problems.

The CDC seems to be doing a good job even though your loath to admit it, but they are part of the government and politicians you want to blame everything on? How do you account for that?

Maybe you should look in the mirror?

 

[nobodyknows]

It would really be best if people stopped bitching who should control the dollars and start looking at things holistically and systemically, define the issues sans political hyperbole and formulate solutions which politicians can use for reform.

There's not much interest in that, and that's another reason I'm not a little bit suspicious.

I had to have some CT scans. The hospital here wants $3700 to do them and that doesn't include the charge for reading them. I shopped around and found a place in the closest big city that woud do the same thing for less then 1/3 that price and it included the r4eadings.

I went to the hospital and talked with the Administrator about getting a better price but they wouldn't do shit. They have the machine sitting there doing nothing half the time, staff on the payroll to run it 24 hours a day, but they would just as soon have me drive 400 miles then give me a break on the price. I guess they wouldn't want their staff working too hjard. They might not have time to post on the internet and take pictures while they're working? LOL, politicians and goverment my ASS. It's the greedy, for profit health care system that doesn't want to change, they just want to give the words reform a little lip service.

 

[Corn]

LOL, I copied and pasted that from somebody else. Opps!! So sue me Mr. Spelling Nazi.

I can spell mississippi though

LOL, blame your incompetence on someone else, classic. Wonder why you copied it, prolly cuz you don't know how to spell it. Lemme guess, you're a union worker, right?

 

[charrison]

I had to have some CT scans. The hospital here wants $3700 to do them and that doesn't include the charge for reading them. I shopped around and found a place in the closest big city that woud do the same thing for less then 1/3 that price and it included the r4eadings.

I went to the hospital and talked with the Administrator about getting a better price but they wouldn't do shit. They have the machine sitting there doing nothing half the time, staff on the payroll to run it 24 hours a day, but they would just as soon have me drive 400 miles then give me a break on the price. I guess they wouldn't want their staff working too hjard. They might not have time to post on the internet and take pictures while they're working? LOL, politicians and goverment my ASS. It's the greedy, for profit health care system that doesn't want to change, they just want to give the words reform a little lip service.

Here is a prime example of what is wrong with insurance or govt covering everything. A person getting a ct scan with insurance will pay the same copay no matter where they go.

If you want to bring prices under control, the consumer is going to have bear more the cost.

 

[Craig234]

Here is a prime example of what is wrong with insurance or govt covering everything. A person getting a ct scan with insurance will pay the same copay no matter where they go.

If you want to bring prices under control, the consumer is going to have bear more the cost.

Good argument for a public option and even better Medicare for all.

 

[charrison]

Good argument for a public option and even better Medicare for all.

Not at all. As long as a 3rd party)govt or insurance) is paying most of the bills, prices will continue rise like they are now. Trading insurance for govt as the 4rd party does not fix the problem.

 

[MotF Bane]

Craig and nobody in one thread. The trainwreck is complete.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Not at all. As long as a 3rd party)govt or insurance) is paying most of the bills, prices will continue rise like they are now. Trading insurance for govt as the 4rd party does not fix the problem.

It's a repeat of an urban legend. Bills are submitted to insurance companies (private and government). They may have different amounts submitted, but they will be cut back to whatever the insurance companies decide.

Which costs more? A bill submitted for 5k that is reimbursed for 2k or one which is billed for 3k and reimbursed for 2k?

It's still two thousand dollars the provider gets. This myth of a free market health care hasn't been true in ages. Certainly people who have to pay cash will pay different amounts, but he who has the gold makes the rules, and insurance companies (again government and private) determine who gets what.

The only way to bring down costs is to use less services. Refuse the MRI, don't take the more expensive med.

 

[Craig234]

Not at all. As long as a 3rd party)govt or insurance) is paying most of the bills, prices will continue rise like they are now. Trading insurance for govt as the 4rd party does not fix the problem.

No, the government has done pretty well at keeping costs down compared to private insurance for the same treatment, it seems. In fact, opposition to the public options includes providers for that reason.

I'm not especially well informed about the costs, so someone who is can say if any correction is needed to that, but that's what I've seen.

 

[MotF Bane]

No, the government has done pretty well at keeping costs down compared to private insurance for the same treatment, it seems. In fact, opposition to the public options includes providers for that reason.

I'm not especially well informed about the costs, so someone who is can say if any correction is needed to that, but that's what I've seen.

The truest statement you have ever posted.

 

[charrison]

It's a repeat of an urban legend. Bills are submitted to insurance companies (private and government). They may have different amounts submitted, but they will be cut back to whatever the insurance companies decide.

Which costs more? A bill submitted for 5k that is reimbursed for 2k or one which is billed for 3k and reimbursed for 2k?

The problem is that the consumer has no idea what gets billed or get payed out. The consumer could also care less if someone down the street would bill their insurance for 1/2 the cost. Their copay is the same, no matter what.

It's still two thousand dollars the provider gets. This myth of a free market health care hasn't been true in ages. Certainly people who have to pay cash will pay different amounts, but he who has the gold makes the rules, and insurance companies (again government and private) determine who gets what.

IT is a myth that a freemarket even exists in healthcare industry. Costs are hidden at every corner making it impossible for consumers to make good decisions.

The only way to bring down costs is to use less services. Refuse the MRI, don't take the more expensive med.

That and make the consumer more responsible for their spending.

 

[Ozoned]

LOL, blame your incompetence on someone else, classic. Wonder why you copied it, prolly cuz you don't know how to spell it. Lemme guess, you're a union worker, right?

Hi Corn! Now you owe me an apology.

 

[nobodyknows]

LOL, blame your incompetence on someone else, classic. Wonder why you copied it, prolly cuz you don't know how to spell it. Lemme guess, you're a union worker, right?

LOL, another spelling Nazi. What a pathetic excuse for a troll you are. Don't quit your day job.

 

[nobodyknows]

Not at all. As long as a 3rd party)govt or insurance) is paying most of the bills, prices will continue rise like they are now. Trading insurance for govt as the 4rd party does not fix the problem.

It's the only wat to fix the problem, because as healthcare costs continue to rise, more and more people will have no insurance or less insurance and medical bankruptcy's will continue to climb causing health insurance prices to climb even more.

It's a vicious circle with more and more people becoming either uninsured or underinsured.

 

[nobodyknows]

Craig and nobody in one thread. The trainwreck is complete.

LOL, if this all you have to contribute then why bother posting? Just can't help yourself when it comes to trolling or what?

Better get back on those meds, dude.

 

[blackangst1]

No, the government has done pretty well at keeping costs down compared to private insurance for the same treatment, it seems. In fact, opposition to the public options includes providers for that reason.

I'm not especially well informed about the costs, so someone who is can say if any correction is needed to that, but that's what I've seen.

http://articles.latimes.com/1998/nov/26/news/mn-48061
The Medicare system and millions of its beneficiaries could save more than $1 billion a year on prescription drugs if Medicare used the same price schedule as the Veterans Affairs Department, according to a government investigation.
A study of 34 drugs showed that Medicare pays anywhere from 15% to a whopping 1,600% more than the VA for the identical compounds. The report recommended that Congress change the law to allow Medicare to use some of the VA methods, such as discounts for volume purchases.

http://www.news-medical.net/news/2008/08/29/41010.aspx
Medicare overpaid for irinotecan, a cancer drug sold by Pfizer under the name Campostar, by $6.5 million in March because of a delay in updating its pricing formula, according to a report released on Tuesday by the HHS Office of Inspector General, Bloomberg/Los Angeles Times reports.

(message: beauracracy)

http://waysandmeans.house.gov/media/pdf/healthdocs/awpreform.pdf
Old Flawed System Overpaid For Drugs, Underpaid for Services

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-87453672.html
Article: Medicare overpaid health plans--report.(Brief ...
Article: HHS report: Medicare overpaid millions .
Article: Medicare overpaid chiropractors $285M
Article: Medicare overpaid for drugs
Article: AUDITORS: MEDICARE OVERPAID $23 BILLION LAST YEAR
Article: US DHHS says Medicare overpaid for drug.
Article: Medicare's new hemorrhages.(federal auditors discovered ...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16562555
Medicare overpaid dollar 110 million for part B drugs.

Yeah theyre doing a great job controlling costs

 

[Jaskalas]

The current "free market" has two types of consumers. The average Joe, and the Government. Blackangst1 just gave a good example that one type of consumer is entirely wasteful and is willing to pay out an arm and a leg for various things.

What can Joe do to compete against Government consumption? Joe does not print money to pay his bills, he cannot pay the prices the Government pays yet providers are very much willing to raise their price to match what the Government consumer is willing to pay.

If there was no rich Government consumer on healthcare, the providers would have to lower their prices back down or go out of business due to lack of consumption.

Democrat's solution here is more consumption bankrolled by the taxpayers. What do you think that'll do to prices?

 

[Corn]

LOL, another spelling Nazi. What a pathetic excuse for a troll you are. Don't quit your day job.

You moron, I didn't point out any spelling error. I simply mocked your idiotic reason for committing it. I notice you didn't answer the question about being in a union. Got ya pegged, eh?

 

[Corn]

Hi Corn! Now you owe me an apology.

[Trebek] Sorry. [/]

 

[blackangst1]

The current "free market" has two types of consumers. The average Joe, and the Government. Blackangst1 just gave a good example that one type of consumer is entirely wasteful and is willing to pay out an arm and a leg for various things.

What can Joe do to compete against Government consumption? Joe does not print money to pay his bills, he cannot pay the prices the Government pays yet providers are very much willing to raise their price to match what the Government consumer is willing to pay.

If there was no rich Government consumer on healthcare, the providers would have to lower their prices back down or go out of business due to lack of consumption.

Democrat's solution here is more consumption bankrolled by the taxpayers. What do you think that'll do to prices?

And thats the point. Adding another 12 million people to the government's dolls will not lower health care costs. All it will do is will add 12 million more customers to the insurance companies. Thats it. Government already cant dictate cost, and this idea that they can if this bill is passed is assinine. You think insurance companiies have big profits now? You aint seen nothing yet! With another 12 million customers, well...

 

[nobodyknows]

The current "free market" has two types of consumers. The average Joe, and the Government. Blackangst1 just gave a good example that one type of consumer is entirely wasteful and is willing to pay out an arm and a leg for various things.

What can Joe do to compete against Government consumption? Joe does not print money to pay his bills, he cannot pay the prices the Government pays yet providers are very much willing to raise their price to match what the Government consumer is willing to pay.

If there was no rich Government consumer on healthcare, the providers would have to lower their prices back down or go out of business due to lack of consumption.

Democrat's solution here is more consumption bankrolled by the taxpayers. What do you think that'll do to prices?

Are you daft? Do you think only Democrats use goverment health care? As a rule, medicare/medicaid pays less then insurance does for the same procedures. Everyone uses healthcare and hardly anyone cares what it costs.

LOL, your "observation" is just insane, partisian rambling.

 

[blackangst1]

Are you daft? Do you think only Democrats use goverment health care? As a rule, medicare/medicaid pays less then insurance does for the same procedures. Everyone uses healthcare and hardly anyone cares what it costs.

LOL, your "observation" is just insane, partisian rambling.

False.

Links? Not anecdotal. Something that shows a pattern.

 

[nobodyknows]

You aint seen nothing yet! With another 12 million customers, well...

So I guess we need a special tax on you trust fund. Then you can be in the same boat as the people you want to fuck over.

Works for me.