More "monkey" stupidity:
http://www-cgi.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0402/18/pzn.00.html
In Focus" tonight, how to lose your job over a single word and not even a four-letter word. This story raises questions about what some say is political correctness run amuck. This man, Jeff Bogg, says he was fired by Southwest Airlines for using the word monkey.
He joins us tonight in Detroit for an exclusive television interview.
Good to see you, Jeff. Welcome.
JEFF BOGG, FIRED BY SOUTHWEST AIRLINES: How are you, Paula?
ZAHN: I'm fine, thanks, sir.
If you would, briefly describe to us what happened to you.
BOGG: I have a handicapped child, a special needs child. And December 5, we went to the church. And they do a thing for children.
And while they were sitting on Santa Claus's lap, the photographer was saying "Smile. Say monkey." And my wife and I talked about it. She's a preschool teacher and we thought it was great. The next night was the Dallas maintenance party for Southwest Airlines. And during the course of the evening, I walked through the foyer. And an African-American family was having their photograph taken.
And I stood there and I said, "Smile. Say monkey." And two of the gentlemen approached me and said they took offense to it. And I apologized immediately and told them -- I assured them I didn't mean anything by that. And we went about our way.
ZAHN: Then, shortly thereafter, you were fired, weren't you?
BOGG: Yes, ma'am. That was December the 9th nine and I was terminated on January 6, that morning.
ZAHN: And what reason did they give you for firing you, for saying something that was perceived as racist? BOGG: No, ma'am. They told me that it was inappropriate conduct. And the termination letter they handed me said that I'd used the word monkey during an African-American photo shoot and the family took offense to it.
ZAHN: We actually have a statement from Southwest Airlines I'd like you to react to tonight, Jeff.
And I'm reading it halfway through, where they basically say that you had a leadership position at the company and -- quote -- "We expect our leaders to set the example and lead with the highest degree of integrity. We are angry and dismayed at Mr. Bogg's account of the events that led to his termination. And we don't agree with his version of the facts."
BOGG: I think I was a political scapegoat, executed for that. I have a -- like I say, I have a handicapped child. And we know that kind of thing profusely, because we go to the store. We get the stares and they walk around us and stuff like that. So, I know that and I wouldn't offend anybody intentionally.
ZAHN: And you said you apologized, so you do understand why some people might have perceived your saying that word as racist?
BOGG: Well, when the two gentlemen approached me and said they took offense to it, that's when I apologized. And I told the young lady from human resources that I would apologize to the family, meet with the family, whatever it took. And I assured her I didn't mean anything by it.
ZAHN: Are you bitter about what happened?
BOGG: Yes, ma'am, somewhat, because I was almost 16 years with Southwest Airlines, a spotless record.
ZAHN: So, do you ever plan to use the word monkey again when a picture is taken?
BOGG: No, ma'am, I won't say anything at picture time, not even say cheese.
ZAHN: Now let's get the views of two African-Americans on the Bogg controversy, nationally syndicated columnist Armstrong Williams and civil rights activist Lawrence Guyot, both in Washington tonight.
Welcome, gentlemen.
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: Guyot, I want to start with you this evening. Do you think Mr. Bogg should have been fired for using the word monkey?
LAWRENCE GUYOT, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: Absolutely.
ZAHN: Why? GUYOT: I think because racism permeates all of America. Some corporations have become responsible and they have talked to their leadership about what's possible, what's acceptable and what's not.
ZAHN: But he said he meant no harm by it.
GUYOT: You know, we can't take the position that an explosive, triggering word has to be imbued with intent, because, once we do that, I can go to anyone and say anything I want. And that's not allowed.
We live in a very fragile, racial context. When I go out -- when I leave this studio and I try to catch a cab, I'm going to be treated differently than any other white American. White America does not have to plan and prepare itself for putting its children in that kind of situation.
This gentleman, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and I'll say, OK, he wasn't aware of what he was doing. That in no way spares him from the corporation being efficient and responsible.
ZAHN: All right.
Well, what about that, Armstrong, Guyot basically arguing that the intent didn't matter here, that, at its root, the word is racist, regardless of what the man meant?
ARMSTRONG WILLIAMS, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: You know, I speak as an American, not a hyphenated American.
Listen, what the guy did not express in his remarks was that, when the photographer said, "Say monkey," the kids went into laughter. They were really excited about the reaction. And so, obviously, it was harmless. Obviously, we live in a very sensitive, very politically correct society. And, obviously, there is still pockets of racism in America.
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: All right, but, Armstrong, even you have to acknowledge saying that to children is a much different context than him saying that to some African-Americans who were having their picture taken.
WILLIAMS: But you know what? The bottom line is, even his neighbors who just happened to be Americans who are black who live next door to Jeff, say he's a good guy. They've known him for a long time. And they were stunned that someone would take his word monkey to mean that he tried to offend this black family.
He came into the room the very night, fresh off of hearing the reaction from the kids. He was feeling very good about it. He saw the photographer. And without even thinking, he's just looked over, saying, having fun, saying, hey, say monkey. They were offended. When the two gentlemen walked up to him and said, hey, man, I was offended by that, he immediately said, oh I'm sorry, because we are dealing with adults here. He realized at that point that they were offended by it. He said he was sorry. He apologized and he thought that it was over. Yes, he made the comments. Yes, I can see how that family may have been offended. But this man doesn't have a track record of making racist comments or offending people. He used bad judgment for people who are overly sensitive and reacted the wrong way.
But the man is not a racist. He meant no harm and shouldn't have been fired. This is not what the civil rights movement is about. This is not racism. This is just the system, including Southwest Airlines, overreacting to a situation.
GUYOT: That's just not true.
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: Guyot, what about that argument, that this is political correctness gone amuck?
GUYOT: I wouldn't have come to participate in a program about political correctness.
On these facts, the only concession I'll make is, the airline should have told him how serious they considered this before they fired him. That's my only concession.
ZAHN: But a whole month period went by before they did so. In fact, he said he was given the impression when he first went to H.R. that there wasn't a problem at all.
(CROSSTALK)
GUYOT: Ms. Zahn, I've made the concession. But I'll make no other. If a black person had done the same thing, I would feel he should be treated the same way.
This is not about people being oversensitive. This is about the day-to-day life of what being black in America is to some of us. And let's be clear. We have an opportunity and a challenge and a responsibility to deal openly with the discussion of race. And until we do that, we'll have a million of these. And we can't tolerate that.
These anecdotal situations could become very explosive. Suppose the two family members had gone up to him and hit him. Then we get into a whole, you know, question of
(CROSSTALK)
GUYOT: ... this conflict escalating.
(CROSSTALK)
GUYOT: This is not about political correctness. This is about equity.
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: Armstrong, I need a brief closing word.
WILLIAMS: I think it's a generational situation.
Guys like Lawrence and others still live in that time period. I polled many people today to discuss this, even before coming on the air tonight. Not one person thought that this guy should have been fired and not one person, who just happened to be black, thought that guy was a racist and meant any harm by his statements. This is just overreaction and just blown out of proportion. Southwest Airlines should apologize to this man and give him his job back.
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: All right, we've got to leave it there.
Gentlemen, Guyot and Armstrong Williams, I've got to move on.
GUYOT: Southwest should continue. And other corporations should follow that good example.
WILLIAMS: Poor example.
ZAHN: Thank you both, gentlemen. Appreciate your time.