Monitor refresh rate matters?

[Scali]

you might want to do some googling...only thing that has true VSYNC with tripple buffering is OpenGL..on NVIDIA hardware.
Everything else is just pageflipping.

Not sure where you got that from... but you always do page flipping in fullscreen mode (in windowed mode, a blt is required, because the backbuffer needs to be copied to the proper position on the screen, inside the viewport window), regardless of whether you use double buffering (the default) or triple buffering.
Triple buffering is certainly not exclusive to OpenGL and/or nVidia.
In Direct3D you have what is known as a swap chain. This consists of a number of buffers.
By default you have a frontbuffer (the actual memory being displayed at the time), and you can add as many backbuffers as you want. If you add one backbuffer, you have double buffering, if you add two, you have triple buffering... add another and you get quad buffering etc.

In fact, Direct3D even allows you to have multiple swap chains as well.

 

[Karl Agathon]

I do kind of miss having the 120Hz even just for normal Windows computing. It really did make a huge difference but like I said before, the money is better spent on other things if you already have a decent monitor already.

im currently running with a 5 year old dell system and currently looking to either buy or possibly build a decent gaming/general use system to replace my very old dinosaur. So in my case, I will be starting from scratch (including new monitor)

 

[deepinya]

Deepinya with vsync off there is tearing and the video card can ouput high FPS like 200FPS and 100FPS whatever.. but there is tearing.. its not a artifact,, its just tearing thats why you turn vsync on to stop the tearing and make it smooth like butter. Triple buffering helps in performance when vsync is on, with it off its doing nothing. You just havent payed close attention instead enjoyed the game your playing instead of worrying about fps and what not.. thx gg and gb

Im pretty sure I can tell the difference but thanks for olaying. I can tell the difference between 100hz and 120hz as my eyes are very sensitive in FPS games.

vsync = BS in any fast paced FPS so Ill never use it.

Maybe you cant tell the difference and maybe you can. Bottom line is I CAN tell and anything you say really wont change my mind.


We allow cussing in P&N and OT, not in the tech forums.

Moderator Idontcare

mods=yawn

vsync=BS makes absolutely no sense....no wonder this places blows lately.




So you edit your post to callout the mods in this post and on your sig. Take some time off


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director

 

[deepinya]

what Viewsonic are you referring to? there is a new model, 24" V3D241wm-LED just announced a week ago which i'm dying to see in a store somewhere. on paper it looks amazing.

I had bought this one
http://www.viewsonic.com/products/desktop-monitors/lcd/x-series/vx2265wm-fuhzion-lcd.htm

Its got one of the lowest input lag and true 120hz ouput. I just didnt like the colors in windows and websurfing. TN panels are great for gaming but suck everywhere else.

 

[Karl Agathon]

I had bought this one
http://www.viewsonic.com/products/desktop-monitors/lcd/x-series/vx2265wm-fuhzion-lcd.htm

Its got one of the lowest input lag and true 120hz ouput. I just didnt like the colors in windows and websurfing. TN panels are great for gaming but suck everywhere else.

What about general everyday use like websurfing etc?

 

[zerocool84]

What about general everyday use like websurfing etc?

Well it's because of color reproduction and viewing angles. TN's are the fastest to refresh so they are usually the choice for gamers but don't have as good colors or viewing angles as an IPS display or other LCD display technologies.

 

[taltamir]

some more required reading. http://www.anandtech.com/show/2794/1

 

[Scali]

some more required reading. http://www.anandtech.com/show/2794/1

I think that 'update' regarding triple buffering there is nonsense to be honest.
Firstly, triple buffering doesn't HAVE to be able to drop frames... at least, no definition I've ever read of triple buffering has mentioned that (and I've been in the graphics programming game for over 15 years now), so I don't know where they got that from.
Secondly, as I explained, Direct3D implements a swap chain, where the developer can manage the buffers himself, so you CAN drop old buffers if you want. It's not done automagically, but that's the difference between D3D and OGL: In D3D you get standard features with a lot of control. In OGL, triple buffering is a driver-hack, that the API itself was never designed for.

 

[taltamir]

in that case it should be pointed out to anandtech so that they may correct the article.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

60Hz sucks and will cause eye strain
120Hz very very very Smooth

You can see an obvious difference when you move your mouse cursor across the screen on a 60Hz vs a 120Hz monitor. The monitor I am on now is 60Hz, the one right next to it to the right, is a 120Hz Viewsonic LCD and the difference is like night and day.

There is no other relevant argument about this. End of story.

 

[Scali]

With an LCD screen, the refresh rate says little about how the screen actually responds.
60 Hz just means it gets 60 frames per second, from the video card. 120 Hz means it gets 120 frames per second.
What it actually does with those, depends more on the actual panel's response, and the processing logic inside the monitor which tries to maximize that response, process the colours and all that.
A 120 Hz screen with a poor response can suffer from more ghosting and bad colours than a 60 Hz screen with good response.
(In general, quick response times come at the cost of poor contrast and colours).

An LCD screen has no flicker, like CRTs have. Pixels are always on, they don't fade out during the frame. So it's not like you'll get eye-strain or anything, no matter what the refresh rate is.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

With an LCD screen, the refresh rate says little about how the screen actually responds.
60 Hz just means it gets 60 frames per second, from the video card. 120 Hz means it gets 120 frames per second.
What it actually does with those, depends more on the actual panel's response, and the processing logic inside the monitor which tries to maximize that response, process the colours and all that.
A 120 Hz screen with a poor response can suffer from more ghosting and bad colours than a 60 Hz screen with good response.
(In general, quick response times come at the cost of poor contrast and colours).

An LCD screen has no flicker, like CRTs have. Pixels are always on, they don't fade out during the frame. So it's not like you'll get eye-strain or anything, no matter what the refresh rate is.

Are you comparing a 60Hz and a 120Hz LCD side by side?

I am

 

[taltamir]

Are you comparing a 60Hz and a 120Hz LCD side by side?

I am

Try actually reading his post instead of lashing out.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Why get into detail about it when a 120Hz LCD is better, makes no sense to me.

It was actually a bigger improvement for me than what people say about going from a traditional HDD to an SSD.

 

[taltamir]

Why get into detail about it when a 120Hz LCD is better, makes no sense to me.

why lash out when you don't even read his post? makes no sense to me.
Whats wrong with going into detail? does going into detail make him wrong somehow? does going into detail contradict anything?

First, keep in mind that no two monitors are the same, and that some companies either lie or just use misleading specs to make their stuff appear better than it is. While other companies are honest and rely on their name for quality.

He is informing you of what 120Hz actually means, the reason your 120Hz monitor is better is probably because it ALSO has much better g2g response time... not to mention other improvements that go into a higher end monitor (oh, and its probably a couple years newer). Nobody doubts that your 120Hz monitor vastly outperforms your 60Hz, we are just pointing out that its not all BECAUSE the Hz difference, its because of many factors. If you will specify the make and model I might even look it up and point out other differences and what they mean.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

My last LCD was a 19" with 2ms response time and a low Hz level, maybe 65 or 70 max. The 120Hz doesn't even need to be compared to it.

I didn't come here to argue with you, this is for the OP; yes, a 120Hz LCD will be an improvement.

 

[Mem]

The old LCD 60Hz via 120Hz argument,personally I think its what you are happy with.

I use 60Hz with V-syc on and I'm very happy to play in any type of game both online and offline and have no intention of going 120Hz at this time.

I know the Pro's of 120Hz but seriously I'm very happy with my 60Hz LCD,I would rather upgrade to a nice 60Hz IPS then 120Hz TN panel,I have played on 120Hz panels and to be honest its not "wow I must get one factor".

60Hz sucks and will cause eye strain
120Hz very very very Smooth

You can see an obvious difference when you move your mouse cursor across the screen on a 60Hz vs a 120Hz monitor. The monitor I am on now is 60Hz, the one right next to it to the right, is a 120Hz Viewsonic LCD and the difference is like night and day.

There is no other relevant argument about this. End of story.

I never had eyestrain on my LCD 60Hz and I game all day sometimes(I do have my monitor calibrated via hardware),if you refer to CRT 60Hz then yes I agree with that statement.

There is always an argument,fact is not everybody needs 120Hz LCD monitor for gaming etc.... a lot of people like myself rather spend the money on something else or better type of panel etc..

Most of the members here like myself don't deny there are advantages to 120Hz LCD ,but end of the day only you can decide if you really need one, its a case of is 120Hz monitor that great or do I need it?....I know I don't on both of the questions above at this time.

I'm just waiting for the next person to say I have eyestrain .

 

[taltamir]

My last LCD was a 19" with 2ms response time and a low Hz level, maybe 65 or 70 max. The 120Hz doesn't even need to be compared to it.

I didn't come here to argue with you, this is for the OP; yes, a 120Hz LCD will be an improvement.

I am not even asking you to back up your claims, I am just asking the make and model of your monitors...
Obviously your claims are totally unfounded if you must keep it a secret, lest we tear them apart with fact and evidence.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

I am not even asking you to back up your claims, I am just asking the make and model of your monitors...
Obviously your claims are totally unfounded if you must keep it a secret, lest we tear them apart with fact and evidence.

If you must entertain yourself with my monitors then here you go

I'll even give you links to save you some research time:

http://www.viewsonic.com/products/archive/vx922.htm

http://www.viewsonic.com/products/desktop-monitors/lcd/x-series/vx2265wm-fuhzion-lcd.htm

Funny, while checking reviews out at new egg. Some of the first things that are written in the "Pro" field are:

"120hz for gaming is literally indispensable"

"The 120Hz is instantly noticeable compared to my old 60Hz monitor. This monitor made me realize how awesome it is gaming over 100Hz again. It is much better than my good old 100Hz CRT I used to game competitively over 4 years ago."

" 0ms input lag and true 120Hz refresh rate is absolutely stunning to see in motion. LCD 120Hz looks better than CRT 120Hz in my opinion"

and it goes on

 

[Scali]

Well, I can say that my previous LCD was a Samsung 770P, a 17" monitor of about 4-5 years old, with an S-PVA panel. It had 6 ms response.
My current LCD is a Samsung P2270, 22" monitor, more recent, with 2 ms response, and a TN panel.

The old monitor actually had better contrast, better colour balance, better blacks, better viewing angles, and overall better response. Less ghosting etc. You can't tell much of that from the specs. On paper, the new monitor looks much better. In reality it's not. I'm sure it performs better on standard testing than the old one, but the old one was just a better panel, just with less fancy technology to get unrealistically good specs out of an otherwise unimpressive panel.
But that seems to be what the customers want.

 

[taltamir]

thank you.

of the two monitors, the 120Hz is 4 years newer (2009 vs 2005). it claims better contrast, brightness, and view angle. It actually claims worse refresh rate (3ms g2g vs 2ms g2g, 5ms b2w vs 2ms b2w), but that is probably due to marketing BS, back in 2005 most LCD monitors were claiming 2ms for what was in reality 12ms to 20ms refresh rate monitors. However, I cannot say that with certainty about that specific model without further research, and I am having problems finding an in depth review by a professional website like anandtech that actually performs their own measurements. There are, of course, many other differences which are undocumented there (but would be listed in a proper review if I manage to find one)

There is indeed no comparison between the two monitors, but the fact that one is 120Hz and one is 60Hz is far from the only difference between them.
Actually... I just had a wonderful idea... your newer monitor specifies that it can operate between 60Hz and 120Hz...
so why not test it out in 60Hz mode and compare? that is a far fairer comparison between 60Hz and 120Hz, since you are using the same monitor you are guaranteed that all other factors are identical.

 

[Gloomy]

There is no other relevant argument about this. End of story.

color gamut
color reproduction
contrast
brightness
backlight uniformity
size
depth
footprint
vertical viewing angles
horizontal viewing angles
response time
supported input
energy consumption
attractiveness
design
ergonomics

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

color gamut
color reproduction
contrast
brightness
backlight uniformity
size
depth
footprint
vertical viewing angles
horizontal viewing angles
response time
supported input
energy consumption
attractiveness
design
ergonomics

From OP:

"It's refresh rate is only 60 hz however. Does that really matter?"

no where in there do i see the specs you listed

why do people argue these points when they are not asked about?

 

[Gloomy]

From OP:

"It's refresh rate is only 60 hz however. Does that really matter?"

no where in there do i see the specs you listed

why do people argue these points when they are not asked about?

????

 

[deepinya]

What about general everyday use like websurfing etc?

Websurfing was fine except I could never get the whites just right and it either burned my eyes or was too soft. The blacks are average at best and side by side with my CRT it was like night and day.

When you are gaming in 120hz mode you cant change much in the menus IIRC.