Monitor gurus: to upgrade or not?

[brikis98]

I currently have the Sony FW900, a 24" CRT that I'm running at 1920x1200. I'm trying to figure out whether I should give this one to my dad and upgrade myself to a Westinghouse LVM-37W3, a 37" 1080P LCD.

What I use my computer for:
* Gaming
* Watching movies (downloaded & DVDs, NOT TV)
* Some Programming
* Some graphics work
* Web browsing
* Document editing

Here are the pros and cons I see so far of each monitor:

Sony FW900
+ Amazing color accuracy, contrast & black levels
+ Ability to change resolutions w/o any degradation in quality (important, since I can't afford to upgrade my video card often enough to play at very high resolutions).
+/- 16:10 ratio is compromise between text viewing (where you need lots of vertical resolution) and movies (where you need a widescreen)
- Ridiculously heavy (>90lbs)
- On the small side for movie watching from the other end of the room

Westinghouse LVM-37W3
+ Huge! Movies & games would look amazing.
+ Need to reiterate it: this is a MUCH bigger screen
+ lighter, thinner
+/- 16:9 ratio is great for movies, but not as good for text viewing
- I would lose some vertical resolution going from my 1920x1200 monitor to a 1920x1080 monitor
- Trying to run at a non-1080P resolution wouldn't look as good, which is a problem since I don't have the video card to run all my games at such high settings.
- possibility of dead pixels
- actually uses more energy (granted, it's a much bigger screen)
- tough to find at an affordable price (< $700)

Questions about the Westinghouse LVM-37W3
* Are the contrast, colors & darks as good?
* Is there any ghosting?
* How far back do you need to sit for it to look good?
* How is the viewing angle?

 

[RussianSensation]

First, some of the cons of Westinghouse you mentioned apply to all LCDs which are:

- possibility of dead pixels
- black levels

So unless you plan on getting a plasma you won't really achieve true blacks on an LCD today. However, plasma isnt really an option for PC gaming since it has burn in (and I am not just saying this, I tried latest gen LG 50 inch and panasonic 42 and both are unusable as a PC monitor).

Now so let's tackle the issues that you have control over.

1. Ghosting - I don't find any ghosting on my LVM-37W3.

The games I've played lately include: Call of duty 4, Dirt, unreal tournament 3, crysis, quake wars: enemy territory, Bioshok, Hellgate: london, GTR2, Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter, BMW M3 Challenge. Maybe if you play Quake 3 at 300+fps, you could see ghosting, but I cant see any at all in any recent game. I only see games become more and more demanding thereby reducing any possibility for ghosting at 1920x1080 unless you have GF12 from the future and can do 200 frames in Crysis

2. Contrast - this generally blows CRT out of the water, especially since CRT gets dimmer over time. My Viewsonic GF90B 19" is probably 2x dimmer than the Westy. Having said that for an LCD it has a low contrast ratio given some of the more upper-end LCDs.

3. Sitting Distance - I sit about 3 feet away or a decent size table away. I'll tell you that regular divx movies, youtube and video of low quality nature look like crap! But with high definition movies it's not that big of an issue. DVDs still look pretty good.

4. Scaling - yes you are right that LCDs don't downscale to non-native resolution perfectly. However, the Westy has 1:1 scaling which means you can play a game at 1280x1024 for example and it'll shrink the screen to the smaller size. You'll just have 2 black bars on the left/right hand side.

5. Viewing angle - I can notice that the monitor has uneven contrast (darker in the middle) but only if I move an image of something left and right from the centre. However, moving images up or down the screen has no effect on their image quality. Darks though do decrease in darkness the farther left or right you go from the centre. But you really have to compare it to see. As far as viewing angles 7+ feet away, it's difficult for me to say since I sit in front of the screen when I watch movies. So I'll get someone else to comment who maybe has 2 gfs sitting to the left and right of him :beer:

What you can do is bring a laptop or try hooking one up at Costco to this $999 Magnavox 42 inch 1080P screen. It'll have the same 1920x1080 resolution and 8ms response time. More or less it'll give you an idea of what quality you can expect on the PC.

For viewing webpages you'll definately have empty space on the left and right hand side like THIS.

Your other alternative is to splurge on a 30 inch DELL or something along those lines. You will get better response time and greater resolution which will resolve your graphics work demands. But it'll mean upgrading graphics cards more often and it costs even more.

Remember one major downside of the Westy you linked is that it doesnt have a tuner which means you can't watch cable tv on it. I recall their latest gen model includes a tuner and also adds more HDMI ports

A good price for the Westy I'd say is $600-800.

Overall

As a computer/gaming monitor I would give Westy 8.5/10 because it has 1:1 scaling and it natively supports 1920x1080 for a 37 inch LCD. The downside is that when you use full screen and a lower resolution you end up stretching the image which makes it look unnatural and thus reduces image quality. The contrast and black levels are not up to par with the best models of LCDs when comparing this to sony's LCDs for example. (which isnt fair given their price though).

If you won't watch regular cable tv on it, then I would give it a 7/10 for movies. While it fully displays 1080P images for HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, color reproduction and black levels dont hold a candle to any of the recent plasmas by Pioneer or Panasonic series. Also I've been spoiled watching movies on a 50 inch Plasma and therefore 37 seems a bit small.

 

[brikis98]

Thanks for the detailed reply RussianSensation! Out of curiosity, have you ever used the Sony FW900? It is head & shoulders above the typical CRT, so I'm wondering if your comparison in terms of contrast & the like still hold...

It sounds like sitting distance (I can probably just mount it on my wall, which is 3-4 feet away), viewing angle (I'm usually right in front) and ghosting are unlikely to be problematic, which is good to hear. I won't be using it for watching cable TV, so I definitely don't need a tuner. And as the biggest TV in my house is 27", this will certainly seem like a monster by comparison. A 30" LCD would be sweet, but I def. can't afford it, especially with the kind of video card you'd need to handle that resolution.

I've also been thinking about the scaling issue... just how bad are we talking if I wanted to run a game at, say, 1280x720? I'm guessing text looks terrible, but does everything else become blurry too? Of course, if I do 1:1 scaling... how big is the image going to be at 1280x720? Roughly 24"?

The other remaining issues/worries are:
- Possible dead pixels
- Black levels
- Less vertical resolution than I currently have

Other opinions? Better alternatives?

 

[Cabages]

Nice, I am running the HP variant of the FW900.

I personally think you should keep the FW900 AND get the Westy. Have the best of both worlds.

Ive also thought about projectors, since my room is so dark, and having a large screen.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: Cabages
Nice, I am running the HP variant of the FW900.

I personally think you should keep the FW900 AND get the Westy. Have the best of both worlds.

Ive also thought about projectors, since my room is so dark, and having a large screen.

hehe, i think the fw900 is going to my dad... he needs a big screen that can do real low resolutions so that he can have huge fonts...

as for a projector, my room is not well suited for one... moreover, i think getting one with a comparable resolution would be... expensive...

 

[brikis98]

bump for more opinions

 

[sisq0kidd]

This is going to be completely subjective with no factual data, just my opinions.

I've had both monitors (Westinghouse and FW900). The FW900 was an amazing monitor. I had it sit next to my Dell 2405FPW at the time and the colors were much better on the FW900, but the real estate it took up was just too much for my desk. The FW900 made my 2405FPW look kind of washed out.

What I also noticed was the FW900 was slightly faster in reproducing my mouse movements. Maybe it was just me, but it seemed like it. Overall, both monitors had no ghosting, of course.

Now onto the Westy. I'm typing on it currently and although I don't have the FW900 to compare it directly to, I can tell you the Dell 2405FPW looks a bit better than this Westy. The Westinghouse seems a bit washed out compared to the Dell, which was a bit washed out compared to the FW900. Unless you're going to sit them all side by side, you won't notice it too much.

There's absolutely no ghosting on the Westinghouse, from what I can see. All three monitors will do fine in gaming, but if you're anal about color reproduction and all that jazz, I'd stick with the FW900. To me, the size and convenience of a LCD was more than enough to make me make the switch.

When I first got the Westinghouse, it was a bit too big for my desk. I sit about 2-3 feet away from it and it seriously gave me a headache every time I did anything on it, especially game. But after about 2 weeks, you get use to it. I don't think I can ever go back to the 2405FPW, let alone a CRT.

 

[NaughtyGeek]

I sit about 8 feet from my Westy and generally run my desktop and games at 720p resolution. My video card and the Westy can both handle 1080p but the text tends to be just a tad too small for me to read without straining from that distance. I play TF2 quite a bit and just switched to that from DOD:S. I've never had an issue with ghosting. If you are real critical of your image quality, you will notice a difference going from any CRT to the LCD let alone the high end Sony you've mentioned. IMO, if you're planning on sitting 2 - 4 ft. from the monitor, go with a high end 22 or 24 inch LCD. It will cost you a little less than the Westy and prevent headaches from sitting too close. That kind of real estate for a screen is not intended for close up viewing. If you decide to go with the Westy, make sure you get a decent source for your movies. The Westy looks like crap at standard resolutions. I use a PS3 to watch my movies and it upconverts to 1080p so I love the screen for movies. For the money, if you want a 37" monitor/tv, the Westy can't be beat.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: sisq0kidd
This is going to be completely subjective with no factual data, just my opinions.

I've had both monitors (Westinghouse and FW900). The FW900 was an amazing monitor. I had it sit next to my Dell 2405FPW at the time and the colors were much better on the FW900, but the real estate it took up was just too much for my desk. The FW900 made my 2405FPW look kind of washed out.

What I also noticed was the FW900 was slightly faster in reproducing my mouse movements. Maybe it was just me, but it seemed like it. Overall, both monitors had no ghosting, of course.

Now onto the Westy. I'm typing on it currently and although I don't have the FW900 to compare it directly to, I can tell you the Dell 2405FPW looks a bit better than this Westy. The Westinghouse seems a bit washed out compared to the Dell, which was a bit washed out compared to the FW900. Unless you're going to sit them all side by side, you won't notice it too much.

There's absolutely no ghosting on the Westinghouse, from what I can see. All three monitors will do fine in gaming, but if you're anal about color reproduction and all that jazz, I'd stick with the FW900. To me, the size and convenience of a LCD was more than enough to make me make the switch.

When I first got the Westinghouse, it was a bit too big for my desk. I sit about 2-3 feet away from it and it seriously gave me a headache every time I did anything on it, especially game. But after about 2 weeks, you get use to it. I don't think I can ever go back to the 2405FPW, let alone a CRT.

thanks for the info, this is exactly the kind of comparison i was hoping someone could make

i think i might give the westy a shot. i'm just really hoping to find it at a local store so I can return it (w/o paying shipping) if I'm not happy. i'm still worried about color accuracy & black levels, so i'll check it out side by side with my fw900, and if it's not that much worse (or if the huge screen size compensates for it!), i'll prob keep it

more opinions are, of course, still appreciated.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: brikis98

Originally posted by: Cabages
Nice, I am running the HP variant of the FW900.

I personally think you should keep the FW900 AND get the Westy. Have the best of both worlds.

Ive also thought about projectors, since my room is so dark, and having a large screen.

hehe, i think the fw900 is going to my dad... he needs a big screen that can do real low resolutions so that he can have huge fonts...

as for a projector, my room is not well suited for one... moreover, i think getting one with a comparable resolution would be... expensive...

Negative, he needs higher resolutions with larger text. Smoother lines with less aliasing and good contrast makes reading on a computer much easer.

You can have large resolutions and large fonts. Here's how to get the best of both worlds: Right Click on the desktop > Properties > Settings (for video) >Click the advanced tab >Click the General Tab > Choose Custom Font Size enter 192 to double the font size > Click OK. Then Set the monitor to 1920x1200@85Hz to help eliminate jaggies present at low resolutions. If you set the DPI too high where it blocks functionality of the User Interface features, then start the computer up in safe mode then cut back on the settings to an appropriate level.

After the text has been enhanced, the next thing to do is to enlarge his mouse cursors you can do this by going to the control panel > mouse settings > pointers > choose "Windows Inverted (extra large) (system scheme)" > Click ok.

Another thing that can help the vision impaired it to click on the appearance tab (next to video settings)> colour scheme > choose high contrast black and white or white and black. (depends on the type of vision problem) Some can read one better than the other. Colour and contrast can be customized by clicking the the advanced button on the right side of the window.

Finally you can enable the windows magnifier tool. Click Start > Programs > accessories > accessibility > MAGNIFIER. The magnifier can be relocated and resized just like any other window or in the same manner you would relocate the taskbar to another corner of the screen, by dragging it. With the GDM-FW900 being so wide, you can have the magnifier on one side and the open window on the other half.


For web browsing, set him up to use opera. It is very handicap friendly. The number pad + and - can enlarge the screen with ease then return to normal by pressing * on the number pad.

All of this in combination with a large screen helped my grandfather read some text off of his computer.

VisionAide.png
VisionAide2.png
VisionAide3.png

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: Cabages
Nice, I am running the HP variant of the FW900.

I personally think you should keep the FW900 AND get the Westy. Have the best of both worlds.

Ive also thought about projectors, since my room is so dark, and having a large screen.

That's the GDM-FW9012

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: Googer

Originally posted by: brikis98

Originally posted by: Cabages
Nice, I am running the HP variant of the FW900.

I personally think you should keep the FW900 AND get the Westy. Have the best of both worlds.

Ive also thought about projectors, since my room is so dark, and having a large screen.

hehe, i think the fw900 is going to my dad... he needs a big screen that can do real low resolutions so that he can have huge fonts...

as for a projector, my room is not well suited for one... moreover, i think getting one with a comparable resolution would be... expensive...

Negative, he needs higher resolutions with larger text. Smoother lines with less aliasing and good contrast makes reading on a computer much easer.

You can have large resolutions and large fonts. Here's how to get the best of both worlds: Right Click on the desktop > Properties > Settings (for video) >Click the advanced tab >Click the General Tab > Choose Custom Font Size enter 192 to double the font size > Click OK. Then Set the monitor to 1920x1200@85Hz to help eliminate jaggies present at low resolutions. If you set the DPI too high where it blocks functionality of the User Interface features, then start the computer up in safe mode then cut back on the settings to an appropriate level.

After the text has been enhanced, the next thing to do is to enlarge his mouse cursors you can do this by going to the control panel > mouse settings > pointers > choose "Windows Inverted (extra large) (system scheme)" > Click ok.

Another thing that can help the vision impaired it to click on the appearance tab (next to video settings)> colour scheme > choose high contrast black and white or white and black. (depends on the type of vision problem) Some can read one better than the other. Colour and contrast can be customized by clicking the the advanced button on the right side of the window.

Finally you can enable the windows magnifier tool. Click Start > Programs > accessories > accessibility > MAGNIFIER. The magnifier can be relocated and resized just like any other window or in the same manner you would relocate the taskbar to another corner of the screen, by dragging it. With the GDM-FW900 being so wide, you can have the magnifier on one side and the open window on the other half.


For web browsing, set him up to use opera. It is very handicap friendly. The number pad + and - can enlarge the screen with ease then return to normal by pressing * on the number pad.

All of this in combination with a large screen helped my grandfather read some text off of his computer.

VisionAide.png
VisionAide2.png
VisionAide3.png

thanks for the detailed reply

unfortunately, my dad has a few traits that make your solution a bit tough:

1. he's stubborn as hell - he's done very low res for years and wants to keep it that way
2. he uses the computer daily for reading, writing papers/lectures/exams, writing code, etc.

in other words, whatever big-text solution we get has to be VERY problem free & smooth. we already increased font sizes in windows, but you run into issues with it. Some apps don't handle it properly (text doesn't fit in the window, or doesn't respond to resize), some websites fall apart and in general, it never fits quite right. i've suggested the magnifier to him, but given the amount of reading/writing he does on the computer, it's not at all practical. as for the browser, he's dead set on IE. no idea why, but i can't get him to budge.

in short, low res on a big screen is probably the best bet for him, and nothing does that as well as a CRT.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: brikis98

Originally posted by: Googer

Originally posted by: brikis98

Originally posted by: Cabages
Nice, I am running the HP variant of the FW900.

I personally think you should keep the FW900 AND get the Westy. Have the best of both worlds.

Ive also thought about projectors, since my room is so dark, and having a large screen.

hehe, i think the fw900 is going to my dad... he needs a big screen that can do real low resolutions so that he can have huge fonts...

as for a projector, my room is not well suited for one... moreover, i think getting one with a comparable resolution would be... expensive...

Negative, he needs higher resolutions with larger text. Smoother lines with less aliasing and good contrast makes reading on a computer much easer.

You can have large resolutions and large fonts. Here's how to get the best of both worlds: Right Click on the desktop > Properties > Settings (for video) >Click the advanced tab >Click the General Tab > Choose Custom Font Size enter 192 to double the font size > Click OK. Then Set the monitor to 1920x1200@85Hz to help eliminate jaggies present at low resolutions. If you set the DPI too high where it blocks functionality of the User Interface features, then start the computer up in safe mode then cut back on the settings to an appropriate level.

After the text has been enhanced, the next thing to do is to enlarge his mouse cursors you can do this by going to the control panel > mouse settings > pointers > choose "Windows Inverted (extra large) (system scheme)" > Click ok.

Another thing that can help the vision impaired it to click on the appearance tab (next to video settings)> colour scheme > choose high contrast black and white or white and black. (depends on the type of vision problem) Some can read one better than the other. Colour and contrast can be customized by clicking the the advanced button on the right side of the window.

Finally you can enable the windows magnifier tool. Click Start > Programs > accessories > accessibility > MAGNIFIER. The magnifier can be relocated and resized just like any other window or in the same manner you would relocate the taskbar to another corner of the screen, by dragging it. With the GDM-FW900 being so wide, you can have the magnifier on one side and the open window on the other half.


For web browsing, set him up to use opera. It is very handicap friendly. The number pad + and - can enlarge the screen with ease then return to normal by pressing * on the number pad.

All of this in combination with a large screen helped my grandfather read some text off of his computer.

VisionAide.png
VisionAide2.png
VisionAide3.png

thanks for the detailed reply

unfortunately, my dad has a few traits that make your solution a bit tough:

1. he's stubborn as hell - he's done very low res for years and wants to keep it that way
2. he uses the computer daily for reading, writing papers/lectures/exams, writing code, etc.

in other words, whatever big-text solution we get has to be VERY problem free & smooth. we already increased font sizes in windows, but you run into issues with it. Some apps don't handle it properly (text doesn't fit in the window, or doesn't respond to resize), some websites fall apart and in general, it never fits quite right. i've suggested the magnifier to him, but given the amount of reading/writing he does on the computer, it's not at all practical. as for the browser, he's dead set on IE. no idea why, but i can't get him to budge.

in short, low res on a big screen is probably the best bet for him, and nothing does that as well as a CRT.

A mouse with a high DPI would help him not feel the difference between a low resolution and a high one. When done correctly, there really shouldn't be much trouble with applications. For a while I had mine set to large text and worked fine for many months.

 

[Googer]

Perhaps a dual monitor set up would be a good idea. Monitor number one is his working monitor and the second monitor has the magnifier running in full screen. So when he needs to read somthing in larger text, all he has to do is look to his right side and he gets an instant magnification. A SUN GDM-5510 would be ideal because they are 21", abundant, and can be found for under $50 on my local craigslist.

 

[SonicIce]

Originally posted by: brikis98
i'm still worried about color accuracy & black levels

This, apparently, has a "64 million possible color display."