Monarch Computers vs. Build your own

[dclive]

Originally posted by: jgigz
It wasnt juvenile and insulting, Its called motivation. Theres nothing wrong at all with telling someone to man up and DIY. Its one thing to tell someone to do somethign that takes special training or years of practice to do, but to nudge someone in the direction of doing something as simple as following a motherboard manual and plugging a few pieces in, theres nothing wrong with that. And instalation is more fool proof than ever. Unless he drops something I really dont see how he is a threat to the build. Hell he has enough sense to come to anandtech so he apparently knows enought about computers to build one himself he just needed a little motivation whether its friendly or harsh.

What if you have better things to do with your time?

Geez.. the level of snobbery on here is becoming stifling. People have different interests. The financial benefit of building a computer yourself (if under $500 and not pirating all the software on it) is typically zero, particularly when you can get decent PCs at CircuitCity (Sempron 3200+ & 17" CRT) for $289, which is plenty for lots of folks. Add another $200-$300 and you can easily go mid-range dual-core AMD.

The point about not doing your oil is a good one and applies well to this issue too. An inexpensive Dell, cheaper than what you can build it for yourself, that someone else will support if anything goes wrong is worth a lot to a LOT of people.

 

[bfonnes]

Originally posted by: dclive

Originally posted by: jgigz
It wasnt juvenile and insulting, Its called motivation. Theres nothing wrong at all with telling someone to man up and DIY. Its one thing to tell someone to do somethign that takes special training or years of practice to do, but to nudge someone in the direction of doing something as simple as following a motherboard manual and plugging a few pieces in, theres nothing wrong with that. And instalation is more fool proof than ever. Unless he drops something I really dont see how he is a threat to the build. Hell he has enough sense to come to anandtech so he apparently knows enought about computers to build one himself he just needed a little motivation whether its friendly or harsh.

What if you have better things to do with your time?

Geez.. the level of snobbery on here is becoming stifling. People have different interests. The financial benefit of building a computer yourself (if under $500 and not pirating all the software on it) is typically zero, particularly when you can get decent PCs at CircuitCity (Sempron 3200+ & 17" CRT) for $289, which is plenty for lots of folks. Add another $200-$300 and you can easily go mid-range dual-core AMD.

The point about not doing your oil is a good one and applies well to this issue too. An inexpensive Dell, cheaper than what you can build it for yourself, that someone else will support if anything goes wrong is worth a lot to a LOT of people.

here's the link to what he's referring to, link to $289 computer

which was originally posted in the hot deals forum, hot deals forum link

 

[jrphoenix]

Buy it from Monarch.... that's what I'm going to do next time around. I built my computer and some for family members and hate it every time. I think I built it because I thought I would save money. Probably saved some but wasted countless hours, especially 1st time.

What the guides won't tell you is that there are hundreds of little gotcha's that can pop up anytime. Until the issue comes up you won't know what things can cause snags. I spent several hours getting my Audigy 2 to work in my current system because the da*mn software was set to digital instead of analog (I thought I had done something).

Buy.... only build if you have time to waste.

 

[Slammy1]

Originally posted by: dclive

Originally posted by: Slammy1
friend's old Dell could really use a new PSU and more memory, but both require Dell parts (the memory, for example, needs to have the model written into the EEPROM).

<...>

compatability, which has gotten better. Nothing makes you say I wish I'd spent more than a new PC that BSODs for some indecipherable error, except maybe the requests for

Please give me some info on that Dell, because I've never heard of such a model. Dell uses fairly plain Intel motherboards for the most part, so I'm very interested in finding out more about that. Do you know how much work that would require to really lock it down to EEPROM level?

Re: BSODs - they aren't indecipherable at all, but it takes some skill to read them, so I do so on here to try to help people out. It's amazing how many people will blame hardware when the problem is typically just a bad driver...

He has an older Optiplex iirc. I should remember, I just researched it this last month. I'd actually ordered memory for him and had to return it when I found out about the EEPROM issue by keyword search, it surprised me as well. At one point I used to recommend Dell deals, but after that I'm much more reluctant.

For the second part, it depends on the nature of the eroor. Some are indicative of the component, others report the error that's caused because of the driver leaving you to wonder. Components usually are more stable after the mfrs have had a chance to revise the drivers a few times, the problem doesn't mean the drivers are bad just that they conflict with something else (which is more common). This is really the hard part in building, IMHO, getting everything to play nice. Prebuilts are pretested to their design. Not that I've had a lot of prebuilts where I can generalize, but you can read reviews on specific configurations as opposed to late night debugging sessions.

 

[bfonnes]

Originally posted by: jrphoenix
Buy it from Monarch.... that's what I'm going to do next time around. I built my computer and some for family members and hate it every time. I think I built it because I thought I would save money. Probably saved some but wasted countless hours, especially 1st time.

What the guides won't tell you is that there are hundreds of little gotcha's that can pop up anytime. Until the issue comes up you won't know what things can cause snags. I spent several hours getting my Audigy 2 to work in my current system because the da*mn software was set to digital instead of analog (I thought I had done something).

Buy.... only build if you have time to waste.

I agree with most of your statement... I had a lot of time to waste when I built my first computer but, building now days is much easier. The amount of problems you have will be influenced directly by how well you think out your build. Reducing those problems only comes with experience, though, there is a lot more information out there now, which can be both good and bad, because not all of it is accurate. I read a pretty thick book about before I did my first build.... Here's the most recent edition, Upgrading and Repairing PCs. I'd definitely recommend it if you are serious about building a computer. It is a lot easier to do it right the first time as with most things in life.

BFonnes

 

[Baked]

You know how Monarch says they do 48 burn-in for every computer they build? They don't. And only saving $100? Well, by the logic, you should definitely buy your pre-built system from Alienware.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: Slammy1

He has an older Optiplex iirc. I should remember, I just researched it this last month. I'd actually ordered memory for him and had to return it when I found out about the EEPROM issue by keyword search, it surprised me as well. At one point I used to recommend Dell deals, but after that I'm much more reluctant.

Please post models; I'm quite interested because we use Optiplexes at work and they order off the shelf RAM for all of them. A URL to what you found when you did the keyword search would be interesting.

Edit: Found it: http://configurator.oempcworld.com/resu...sp?mn=OptiPlex+GXa+Series&modelid=1666

They haven't done that in a decade or so. Not worth worrying about when looking at current Dell models - buy away.

 

[jgigz]

Originally posted by: dclive

Originally posted by: jgigz
It wasnt juvenile and insulting, Its called motivation. Theres nothing wrong at all with telling someone to man up and DIY. Its one thing to tell someone to do somethign that takes special training or years of practice to do, but to nudge someone in the direction of doing something as simple as following a motherboard manual and plugging a few pieces in, theres nothing wrong with that. And instalation is more fool proof than ever. Unless he drops something I really dont see how he is a threat to the build. Hell he has enough sense to come to anandtech so he apparently knows enought about computers to build one himself he just needed a little motivation whether its friendly or harsh.

What if you have better things to do with your time?

Geez.. the level of snobbery on here is becoming stifling. People have different interests. The financial benefit of building a computer yourself (if under $500 and not pirating all the software on it) is typically zero, particularly when you can get decent PCs at CircuitCity (Sempron 3200+ & 17" CRT) for $289, which is plenty for lots of folks. Add another $200-$300 and you can easily go mid-range dual-core AMD.

The point about not doing your oil is a good one and applies well to this issue too. An inexpensive Dell, cheaper than what you can build it for yourself, that someone else will support if anything goes wrong is worth a lot to a LOT of people.

I fully understand the fact of buying a lower end machine for less and its a better deal and I really hope im not comming of like a snob, but I was under the impression that he was looking for a medium-highend machine. He never stated what his use for the computer would be nor did he say what his budget was. So i was assuming he was an enthusiast that didnt have time to build it or he wasnt sure if he wanted to build it or not. So forgive me for misunderstanding what his intentions were.

 

[Slammy1]

Yeah, that be the one. We have a lot of issues with the Dells at work, btw. We use a number of them for controlling scientific instruments, they have a lot of communication issues. Of course, that's anecdotal as I'm not an IT person.

It's worthwhile reviewing comments on these vendors from people with direct experience. Some are good, some are bad, look for trends and all that.
Dell Resellerratings
vs
Monarch Resellerratings
vs
alienware

I could go on, but you have to put things in perspective. What you get is what you pay for, despite shortcomings Dell's are still worth considering for the tremendous deals (and like I always say about review sites, people don't research where to write glowing reviews on products). I just hate supporting my friend's Dell vs my other friend who has my old system that never ever has issues (aside from a couple of hardware issues due to age). The easiest is my mom's Pavillion out of the 3.

 

[cmdrdredd]

The BEST thing you can do is get a friend who can build and has built PCs before. Let him guide you through it, ask him/her any questions about why you do something that way or why it's that order. Then you can understand what's going on and also have someone that knows what they're doing help out if you get stuck or prevent you from simple mistakes. I did this for a neighbor of mine...I talked him into building a PC and I helped him pickout parts online and went to watch/assist him build it when they were all ready to go. It's incredibly easy once you do it one time. Most parts only fit one way and in a specific slot, very self explanatory.

 

[shadykidd]

Thanks for all the replies. I think I need to do some clarification.

First off, I pretty much know how to build a PC. I am quite knowledgable about computers, I have just never had the time/motivation to build my own. My major concern is putting it all together, having it not work, and then not being able to troubleshoot the problem. I am a busy guy, I really do not have an entire weekend to dedicate to something like this. If I buy through a vendor, its their problem if something doesn't work. They troubleshoot it, not me.

I am looking for a mid-high end PC, around $1500. After looking at the reseller ratings, Monarch and CyberPowerPC both have their ups and downs, neither looking like a sure shot.

Most of you say build, but those one or two that are saying it is not worth the headache/time are really standing out to me I can totally see myself getting a bad mobo or video card, and spending countless hours trying to figure out which part is bad.

But in the end, I see myself building my next PC. I still might buy a barebones setup and go from there, but I'll see when the time comes. I just hope I do not land up spending hours on this forum because my PC won't boot!

 

[ProfJohn]

I have a Dell Dimension 4500 and I have upgraded both memory added a second HD and CDburner and replaced the GPU without one problem. All you have to do is make sure you pick the right parts for the machine. I was looking at upgrading the processor to a 2.8/2.8 (forgot) northwood plenty of evidence on the web that it can be done easy.

I wonder how much of the Dell reseller rating is based on the Dell backlash you see on these boards. Dell certainly has tech support problems, but overall are they that bad?

One question for shaddy, in your price comparision did you include the cost of Windows XP? That is my problem with building, at my $600ish budget windows XP eats up around $90 add MS Word and almost a quarter of my budget goes to software.

 

[ProfJohn]

$1500 budget.... build, can create a good if not great conroe system at that price.

 

[shadykidd]

The prices I quoted did not include a copy of WinXp. I already own a copy so I wasn't too concerned with that.

 

[SunSamurai]

Originally posted by: MagnusTheBrewer
For lower end machines, purchasing from Dell or Monarch or whoever is often cheaper than rolling your own. You can definatley save money on high end machines by doing it yourself.

LOL Another totaly asinine post from you. Youre on a roll!!

 

[fire400]

Originally posted by: w00t
Build your own no doubt

if you have the time to post on this forum, you have time to build it yourself.

monarch charges

you build, you're gonna charge yourself? hell no

common sense, build your own

 

[HO]

I build computers. I buy barebones from Monarch. Depends on my circumstances at the time.

The last build (my current computer) ended up coming from Monarch: X2 4400+ on a Tyan K8E sitting in a P180. I had no issues with Monarch other than it took a little longer than expected to receive my box. I say do whatever you're comfortable with.

 

[Slammy1]

I wasn't saying to not build it yourself, btw, I was just trying to relay the pros and cons of either method. At your budget, building yourself would be best. Aside from unpacking, it shouldn't take more than 4 hours and that includes Windows installation and setup (though, depending on what you install/copy that number can go up) and the time can be spread out and unattended at points. You really shouldn't be concerned w/ hardware failure, the biggest bug in the build process is hardware conflict. But, if you're willing to do some level of research, that would be minimal.

If you don't have time, there's nothing wrong w/ a pre-built (aside from a couple of issues with upgradability and more limited uses). I really can't recommend who'd be the best to buy from but there are any number of resources on the net giving review of different configs. Barebones is nice as all you have to do is install peripherals, but OTOH mounting a MoBo and CPU are both pretty easy if you're cautious. I'd rather install my own CPU for piece of mind.

 

[gsellis]

Originally posted by: aeternitas

Originally posted by: MagnusTheBrewer
For lower end machines, purchasing from Dell or Monarch or whoever is often cheaper than rolling your own. You can definatley save money on high end machines by doing it yourself.

LOL Another totaly asinine post from you. Youre on a roll!!

I do not know anything about this little war you are having, but aeternitas, the above quote is essentially true. Low end bargin prices, because of economies of scale, are almost always cheaper from Dell, HP, and Monarch than an equivalant DIY. On the high end, rolling your own can save $1-3k on workstations.

OP, if your time is worth it, buy from Monarch. Just pad it (as with any other mfgr) with an extra week of config time in case something is not quite right. But you have to do that if you do it yourself. If you DIY, the worst and almost consistant thing is that you may remove skin from your knuckles inserting either the PSU, processer, or DVD drive. No matter how well built the case, I always seem to do it (I used to take them apart and put them back together as part of my job function when we analyzed new machines). The new rolled case edges (not new to many of you, but I have been doing it for 15 years) cut down on the bandaid usage

dclive - the consumer whatever 4600c had some parts that Dell would tell you, were only from them. I had two have the PSU and mobo fail. I order the mobo from Dell the first time and used a ATX PSU I got at Fry's. The second one failed with the same (and I talked to Dell and finally to Round Rock about it). Based on a hint, I just replaced the mobo with a Gigabyte board of the same diminsions (no, do not remember which one) and an ATX PSU (both from Fry's). That one required the call of shame to MS to reset the Product ID code (too much change, authenticate.)

 

[dclive]

gsellis - agreed there are plenty of parts in Dells that are pseudo-proprietary; we were focused on RAM.

 

[jrphoenix]

Originally posted by: shadykidd
Thanks for all the replies. I think I need to do some clarification.

First off, I pretty much know how to build a PC. I am quite knowledgable about computers, I have just never had the time/motivation to build my own. My major concern is putting it all together, having it not work, and then not being able to troubleshoot the problem. I am a busy guy, I really do not have an entire weekend to dedicate to something like this. If I buy through a vendor, its their problem if something doesn't work. They troubleshoot it, not me.

I am looking for a mid-high end PC, around $1500. After looking at the reseller ratings, Monarch and CyberPowerPC both have their ups and downs, neither looking like a sure shot.

Most of you say build, but those one or two that are saying it is not worth the headache/time are really standing out to me I can totally see myself getting a bad mobo or video card, and spending countless hours trying to figure out which part is bad.

But in the end, I see myself building my next PC. I still might buy a barebones setup and go from there, but I'll see when the time comes. I just hope I do not land up spending hours on this forum because my PC won't boot!

If you have free time, it is a great experience (when its done). I had hiccups which were very frustrating (out of commission for a week due to a defective case.... the holes for the Mobo were off a little so I couldn't screw in all the mobo mounts..) Stuff like that can drive you mad for a while. I have built 3, next one I'm buying because I have less time now that I did before.

Good luck, whichever choice you make.

 

[willndowed]

Don't let anyone here talk you out of the Monarch deal. What you get... an up to date BIOS, a burn in test, and a lot better chance of no DOA parts... is worth the extra $45. (Monarch still has better deals than Tiger Direct, Newegg, or Zipzoomfly on a lot of their parts)

The big part of building a PC... choosing the right parts, making sure your cable runs are sharp, and customizing your box to make it your own... don't have much of anything to do with installing the MB and CPU.

There is still a lot more to do after you get the barebone system home, and there is a lot less chance that you'll run into all the headaches.