Mom starves son to death for not saying "Amen"

[NoStateofMind]

Well you don't have to leave it with this one episode to show religion is a cancer to society. Look throughout history. Book burnings because they are witchcraft when in fact it was only scientific study, burning people alive because they don't believe what the religious ones believe. It has and still does influence many decisions of government and normal life. Stem cell research etc. The list is endless with ignorant judgments and insane actions with religion. If you cannot see this then ok, I won't blame you for it, but at least look at religion from its inception and see its affects on humanity as a whole.

You cannot make the argument that religion is the only way "morality" has an existence on earth. Morality is normal and would be a part of society without religion.

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Some people need Religion and if they aren't mentally unstable it usually isn't a bad thing. Not every follower or leader is a member of Jonestown.

Jim Jones had his church in the community I grew up in. The building is now an Assemblies of God church that is very active in a rather underprivileged agricultural and drug-ridden community. I used to babysit there on Wednesdays.

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Well you don't have to leave it with this one episode to show religion is a cancer to society. Look throughout history. Book burnings because they are witchcraft when in fact it was only scientific study, burning people alive because they don't believe what the religious ones believe. It has and still does influence many decisions of government and normal life. Stem cell research etc. The list is endless with ignorant judgments and insane actions with religion. If you cannot see this then ok, I won't blame you for it, but at least look at religion from its inception and see its affects on humanity as a whole.

You cannot make the argument that religion is the only way "morality" has an existence on earth. Morality is normal and would be a part of society without religion.

There's a larger picture to look at here.

People naturally group themselves into "like" and "unlike" groups, whether religious, political, racial, national, etc to infinity. Some of these groups will always mutate into something terrible and cult-like. It's the nature of humanity. Both religious and non-religious groups do this, and always will. If there was no religion in the world, there would still be an equal number of people grouping behind some cause or the other and oppressing others.

People who overlook this trait of humanity can easily blame religion for thousands of wrongs, and fairly so since it was religious groups that did those wrongs. However, you can remove all religious history and still see thousands of wrongs done by groups that were not associated to religion in any way.

The solution is not to eradicate but to support healthy groups and work to eradicate unhealthy ones. It's never a once-and-done solution, because new groups will always form that need to be weeded out. It's a condition of humanity and will always require societal guardianship.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Yeah, I don't like cults either.

Mirror, mirror!

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: Skoorb
It is the bane of existence. Fvck those people who use the teachings of Jesus to do things like go to an impoverished nation and start a missionary that hands out food or takes care of orphans.

You can do that WITHOUT religion. Jesus isn't the problem. God isn't the problem. Its Religion and its set ways of belief that corrupts the mind into doing things that a normal human would not do (killing your child) or doing what is right like helping those who need it, the hungry, the poor. Religion does not feed those people in poor countries and from your argument it would seem that you are saying people would not help others if it were not for religion. Thats just an asinine assumption.

Much if not most of the world's morality can be tied back to religion. In your case, how do you determine what's right or not? It holds no meaning without a point of reference. If you're going to blame religion on this woman doing this it's only fair to grant that it also motivates people to do things like quit a middle class job in America and go to the Ukraine for a year teaching poverty-stricken kids.

Not even remotely true.

Much if not most of morality and ethics can be traced back to powerful human minds considering the problems of a world full of interdependant and interacting individuals.

While the link between behaviour and the supernatural was an 'early' one historically, and has survived through many reinventions of religion, any moral or ethical component to this link is relatively new. There have been plenty of cultures, in fact, where murder was illegal, unless God(s) said to do it.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Well you don't have to leave it with this one episode to show religion is a cancer to society. Look throughout history. Book burnings because they are witchcraft when in fact it was only scientific study, burning people alive because they don't believe what the religious ones believe. It has and still does influence many decisions of government and normal life. Stem cell research etc. The list is endless with ignorant judgments and insane actions with religion. If you cannot see this then ok, I won't blame you for it, but at least look at religion from its inception and see its affects on humanity as a whole.

You cannot make the argument that religion is the only way "morality" has an existence on earth. Morality is normal and would be a part of society without religion.

Morality is hardly normal. Morality does not have to be tied to religion, true. But normal? If morality were normal, we wouldn't have crime. No one would ever murder someone else if morality were the norm. Morality is a social construct, which is often advanced in conjunction with religion, though it does exist outside of it. But given the way people have treated each other since the dawn of human civilization, you'd be hard pressed to convince me that morality is somehow the natural way and religion is causing everyone to go crazy.

In reality, the natural way is brutal. Look at the animal kingdom. Dolphins, one of the smartest animals on the planet, participate in gang rapes of other dolphins. Countless species participate in brutal combat to establish dominance and breed. The very notion of survival of the fittest revolves around the basic idea of "I'll kill everything else in the world if it means my genes survive." There's no morality in nature. We made it up to keep us from going off and killing everyone who posed a threat to us. And, like it or not, religion has been fairly successful in spreading the basic concepts of a universal morality to most of the world. Sure, there are considerable problems with it. But it's arguably better than living in a world where we routinely kill each other to establish dominance... well, ok, I guess religion can't prevent all our natural instincts now can it?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Originally posted by: BurnItDwn
Just because this nutjob was religous, it doesn't mean all religious people are nutjobs.

While I personally am a strict atheist, and I find pretty much any/all religious beliefs to be inconceivable, this is just my personal take on it. As a human being, my compassion for other human beings prevents me from believing that religion is the bane of society. I don't particularly care for religion, however, religion is obviously not to blame for the worlds problems. I believe "we" should tolerate "them", just the same way that "we" wish for "them" to tolerate "us".

Well said. :thumbsup:

 

[Budmantom]

1 Mind Ministries..... this kind of sounds like Obama supporters.

 

[sandorski]

We need to proliferate the World with an ATOT Holy Bible. Amongst the verses there would be:

1) "Hell is suck"
2) "Our Moderator who are in Server Room......Rep+1 be you, Uptime to Uptime, This"

That could have saved that kids life.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Budmantom
1 Mind Ministries..... this kind of sounds like Dittoheads.

fixed

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: AreaCode707

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Well you don't have to leave it with this one episode to show religion is a cancer to society. Look throughout history. Book burnings because they are witchcraft when in fact it was only scientific study, burning people alive because they don't believe what the religious ones believe. It has and still does influence many decisions of government and normal life. Stem cell research etc. The list is endless with ignorant judgments and insane actions with religion. If you cannot see this then ok, I won't blame you for it, but at least look at religion from its inception and see its affects on humanity as a whole.

You cannot make the argument that religion is the only way "morality" has an existence on earth. Morality is normal and would be a part of society without religion.

There's a larger picture to look at here.

People naturally group themselves into "like" and "unlike" groups, whether religious, political, racial, national, etc to infinity. Some of these groups will always mutate into something terrible and cult-like. It's the nature of humanity. Both religious and non-religious groups do this, and always will. If there was no religion in the world, there would still be an equal number of people grouping behind some cause or the other and oppressing others.

People who overlook this trait of humanity can easily blame religion for thousands of wrongs, and fairly so since it was religious groups that did those wrongs. However, you can remove all religious history and still see thousands of wrongs done by groups that were not associated to religion in any way.

The solution is not to eradicate but to support healthy groups and work to eradicate unhealthy ones. It's never a once-and-done solution, because new groups will always form that need to be weeded out. It's a condition of humanity and will always require societal guardianship.

Not a bad post. :thumbsup:

I agree with what you say as it only seems natural for people to "pack" together, either for protection or group values. The problem I see that is different with religion is that it separates people on a "black/white" scale. Saved and unsaved. Going to hell or heaven. Life or death. With us or against us type thinking. While this may happen without religion I would not think it to be as drastic. Let's see if I can explain this right. Those with religion act in protection of "god" and therefore can justify their actions regardless of what act is perpetrated. Rational thought is tossed aside because a higher power has decreed their actions to be "sanctified".

Would there be a society like we have now if religion wasn't a part of it? My guess would be that there still would be charitable organizations, help for the sick, the poor, the hungry and homeless. Sure religion has helped in areas where there is a need, but I wouldn't attribute religion as being the only factor in that.

 

[LumbergTech]

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: Skoorb
It is the bane of existence. Fvck those people who use the teachings of Jesus to do things like go to an impoverished nation and start a missionary that hands out food or takes care of orphans.

You can do that WITHOUT religion. Jesus isn't the problem. God isn't the problem. Its Religion and its set ways of belief that corrupts the mind into doing things that a normal human would not do (killing your child) or doing what is right like helping those who need it, the hungry, the poor. Religion does not feed those people in poor countries and from your argument it would seem that you are saying people would not help others if it were not for religion. Thats just an asinine assumption.

No, it's crazy people doing what crazy people do. Religion and faith inspire people do be selfless, generally. It is this which encourages them to be so charitable.

There is some merit in the assumption that people would not help other if not for religion. Religious charities are responsible for much good.

I can agree that it shouldn't be compared to "normal" religion, but don't fool yourself into thinking that even "normal' churches teach some pretty vile things to children all over the usa.

As much as religion pisses me off, I don't think the problem is so much religion but that people are so willing to submit to an authority that has not been throughly challenged and questioned. You don't have to be religious to be gullable and ignorant.

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: AreaCode707

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Well you don't have to leave it with this one episode to show religion is a cancer to society. Look throughout history. Book burnings because they are witchcraft when in fact it was only scientific study, burning people alive because they don't believe what the religious ones believe. It has and still does influence many decisions of government and normal life. Stem cell research etc. The list is endless with ignorant judgments and insane actions with religion. If you cannot see this then ok, I won't blame you for it, but at least look at religion from its inception and see its affects on humanity as a whole.

You cannot make the argument that religion is the only way "morality" has an existence on earth. Morality is normal and would be a part of society without religion.

There's a larger picture to look at here.

People naturally group themselves into "like" and "unlike" groups, whether religious, political, racial, national, etc to infinity. Some of these groups will always mutate into something terrible and cult-like. It's the nature of humanity. Both religious and non-religious groups do this, and always will. If there was no religion in the world, there would still be an equal number of people grouping behind some cause or the other and oppressing others.

People who overlook this trait of humanity can easily blame religion for thousands of wrongs, and fairly so since it was religious groups that did those wrongs. However, you can remove all religious history and still see thousands of wrongs done by groups that were not associated to religion in any way.

The solution is not to eradicate but to support healthy groups and work to eradicate unhealthy ones. It's never a once-and-done solution, because new groups will always form that need to be weeded out. It's a condition of humanity and will always require societal guardianship.

Not a bad post. :thumbsup:

I agree with what you say as it only seems natural for people to "pack" together, either for protection or group values. The problem I see that is different with religion is that it separates people on a "black/white" scale. Saved and unsaved. Going to hell or heaven. Life or death. With us or against us type thinking. While this may happen without religion I would not think it to be as drastic. Let's see if I can explain this right. Those with religion act in protection of "god" and therefore can justify their actions regardless of what act is perpetrated. Rational thought is tossed aside because a higher power has decreed their actions to be "sanctified".

Would there be a society like we have now if religion wasn't a part of it? My guess would be that there still would be charitable organizations, help for the sick, the poor, the hungry and homeless. Sure religion has helped in areas where there is a need, but I wouldn't attribute religion as being the only factor in that.

I agree with your post for the most part, but not the assertion that religion is more black/white than any other in-group or out-group. Racial supremacists deify the "purity of the race" as an absolute with intrinsic value for future generations. Nationalists put the word "country" in place of the word God and demonize the "unpatriotic" anyone who tries to introduce reason into their patriotic goals (Russia, N Korea, avoiding the obvious example...) You can see on these forums that political parties vilify their opposition far beyond the pale of the rational, from both sides. There are liberals that see conservatives as the ultimate evil, intellectually challenged and corrupt, and vice versa, without any context or knowledge of the person they're speaking to.

So I do contend that religion is not intrinsically any more or less liable to corruption than any other group that people strongly associate themselves with.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: AreaCode707

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: AreaCode707

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Well you don't have to leave it with this one episode to show religion is a cancer to society. Look throughout history. Book burnings because they are witchcraft when in fact it was only scientific study, burning people alive because they don't believe what the religious ones believe. It has and still does influence many decisions of government and normal life. Stem cell research etc. The list is endless with ignorant judgments and insane actions with religion. If you cannot see this then ok, I won't blame you for it, but at least look at religion from its inception and see its affects on humanity as a whole.

You cannot make the argument that religion is the only way "morality" has an existence on earth. Morality is normal and would be a part of society without religion.

There's a larger picture to look at here.

People naturally group themselves into "like" and "unlike" groups, whether religious, political, racial, national, etc to infinity. Some of these groups will always mutate into something terrible and cult-like. It's the nature of humanity. Both religious and non-religious groups do this, and always will. If there was no religion in the world, there would still be an equal number of people grouping behind some cause or the other and oppressing others.

People who overlook this trait of humanity can easily blame religion for thousands of wrongs, and fairly so since it was religious groups that did those wrongs. However, you can remove all religious history and still see thousands of wrongs done by groups that were not associated to religion in any way.

The solution is not to eradicate but to support healthy groups and work to eradicate unhealthy ones. It's never a once-and-done solution, because new groups will always form that need to be weeded out. It's a condition of humanity and will always require societal guardianship.

Not a bad post. :thumbsup:

I agree with what you say as it only seems natural for people to "pack" together, either for protection or group values. The problem I see that is different with religion is that it separates people on a "black/white" scale. Saved and unsaved. Going to hell or heaven. Life or death. With us or against us type thinking. While this may happen without religion I would not think it to be as drastic. Let's see if I can explain this right. Those with religion act in protection of "god" and therefore can justify their actions regardless of what act is perpetrated. Rational thought is tossed aside because a higher power has decreed their actions to be "sanctified".

Would there be a society like we have now if religion wasn't a part of it? My guess would be that there still would be charitable organizations, help for the sick, the poor, the hungry and homeless. Sure religion has helped in areas where there is a need, but I wouldn't attribute religion as being the only factor in that.

I agree with your post for the most part, but not the assertion that religion is more black/white than any other in-group or out-group. Racial supremacists deify the "purity of the race" as an absolute with intrinsic value for future generations. Nationalists put the word "country" in place of the word God and demonize the "unpatriotic" anyone who tries to introduce reason into their patriotic goals (Russia, N Korea, avoiding the obvious example...) You can see on these forums that political parties vilify their opposition far beyond the pale of the rational, from both sides. There are liberals that see conservatives as the ultimate evil, intellectually challenged and corrupt, and vice versa, without any context or knowledge of the person they're speaking to.

So I do contend that religion is not intrinsically any more or less liable to corruption than any other group that people strongly associate themselves with.

Damn, I'm impressed. Nice post once again and point very well taken.

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: AreaCode707

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: AreaCode707

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Well you don't have to leave it with this one episode to show religion is a cancer to society. Look throughout history. Book burnings because they are witchcraft when in fact it was only scientific study, burning people alive because they don't believe what the religious ones believe. It has and still does influence many decisions of government and normal life. Stem cell research etc. The list is endless with ignorant judgments and insane actions with religion. If you cannot see this then ok, I won't blame you for it, but at least look at religion from its inception and see its affects on humanity as a whole.

You cannot make the argument that religion is the only way "morality" has an existence on earth. Morality is normal and would be a part of society without religion.

There's a larger picture to look at here.

People naturally group themselves into "like" and "unlike" groups, whether religious, political, racial, national, etc to infinity. Some of these groups will always mutate into something terrible and cult-like. It's the nature of humanity. Both religious and non-religious groups do this, and always will. If there was no religion in the world, there would still be an equal number of people grouping behind some cause or the other and oppressing others.

People who overlook this trait of humanity can easily blame religion for thousands of wrongs, and fairly so since it was religious groups that did those wrongs. However, you can remove all religious history and still see thousands of wrongs done by groups that were not associated to religion in any way.

The solution is not to eradicate but to support healthy groups and work to eradicate unhealthy ones. It's never a once-and-done solution, because new groups will always form that need to be weeded out. It's a condition of humanity and will always require societal guardianship.

Not a bad post. :thumbsup:

I agree with what you say as it only seems natural for people to "pack" together, either for protection or group values. The problem I see that is different with religion is that it separates people on a "black/white" scale. Saved and unsaved. Going to hell or heaven. Life or death. With us or against us type thinking. While this may happen without religion I would not think it to be as drastic. Let's see if I can explain this right. Those with religion act in protection of "god" and therefore can justify their actions regardless of what act is perpetrated. Rational thought is tossed aside because a higher power has decreed their actions to be "sanctified".

Would there be a society like we have now if religion wasn't a part of it? My guess would be that there still would be charitable organizations, help for the sick, the poor, the hungry and homeless. Sure religion has helped in areas where there is a need, but I wouldn't attribute religion as being the only factor in that.

I agree with your post for the most part, but not the assertion that religion is more black/white than any other in-group or out-group. Racial supremacists deify the "purity of the race" as an absolute with intrinsic value for future generations. Nationalists put the word "country" in place of the word God and demonize the "unpatriotic" anyone who tries to introduce reason into their patriotic goals (Russia, N Korea, avoiding the obvious example...) You can see on these forums that political parties vilify their opposition far beyond the pale of the rational, from both sides. There are liberals that see conservatives as the ultimate evil, intellectually challenged and corrupt, and vice versa, without any context or knowledge of the person they're speaking to.

So I do contend that religion is not intrinsically any more or less liable to corruption than any other group that people strongly associate themselves with.

Damn, I'm impressed. Nice post once again and point very well taken.

Wow, did we just have a productive P&N discussion? The world must be coming to an end for sure. Nice talking with you!!

 

[brandonb]

I'm sure the kid would be dead if the mother was religious or not. But lets blame religion not the mom. Sort of the same logic is blame the gun not the shooter. When we mature as a society, we'll figure it out, but it seems society as a whole is getting more idiotic, not smarter.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Originally posted by: brandonb
I'm sure the kid would be dead if the mother was religious or not. But lets blame religion not the mom. Sort of the same logic is blame the gun not the shooter. When we mature as a society, we'll figure it out, but it seems society as a whole is getting more idiotic, not smarter.

Can we blame the growing idiocy on religion?

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: AreaCode707
There's a larger picture to look at here.

People naturally group themselves into "like" and "unlike" groups, whether religious, political, racial, national, etc to infinity. Some of these groups will always mutate into something terrible and cult-like. It's the nature of humanity. Both religious and non-religious groups do this, and always will. If there was no religion in the world, there would still be an equal number of people grouping behind some cause or the other and oppressing others.

You're right, but in a way I also agree with Mr. Surgeon. What are the two things they tell you to never discuss over dinner... religion and politics. Why? Because they tend to be a normal topic that people hold high convictions with, so sometimes to avoid heated arguments over petty things, you avoid talking about them. In other words, while you are correct in that people segregating themselves into groups like that is a problem, it's strong convictions that can cause incredibly rash actions.

But this does not mean that I think religion is necessarily a bad thing. As long as you don't hurt anyone (including yourself), I don't care what you believe in. But in this case, if religion didn't fuel the mother's craziness, something else would have.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: AreaCode707
There's a larger picture to look at here.

People naturally group themselves into "like" and "unlike" groups, whether religious, political, racial, national, etc to infinity. Some of these groups will always mutate into something terrible and cult-like. It's the nature of humanity. Both religious and non-religious groups do this, and always will. If there was no religion in the world, there would still be an equal number of people grouping behind some cause or the other and oppressing others.

You're right, but in a way I also agree with Mr. Surgeon. What are the two things they tell you to never discuss over dinner... religion and politics. Why? Because they tend to be a normal topic that people hold high convictions with, so sometimes to avoid heated arguments over petty things, you avoid talking about them. In other words, while you are correct in that people segregating themselves into groups like that is a problem, it's strong convictions that can cause incredibly rash actions.

But this does not mean that I think religion is necessarily a bad thing. As long as you don't hurt anyone (including yourself), I don't care what you believe in. But in this case, if religion didn't fuel the mother's craziness, something else would have.

This is why Free Association is necessary, but also why Religion(and other Association should probably included) should have no Direct influence on Governance.

 

[Jaskalas]

People this crazy are a danger to society. The real question is, what do we do with them?

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: Skoorb
It is the bane of existence. Fvck those people who use the teachings of Jesus to do things like go to an impoverished nation and start a missionary that hands out food or takes care of orphans.

You can do that WITHOUT religion. Jesus isn't the problem. God isn't the problem. Its Religion and its set ways of belief that corrupts the mind into doing things that a normal human would not do (killing your child) or doing what is right like helping those who need it, the hungry, the poor. Religion does not feed those people in poor countries and from your argument it would seem that you are saying people would not help others if it were not for religion. Thats just an asinine assumption.

Much if not most of the world's morality can be tied back to religion. In your case, how do you determine what's right or not? It holds no meaning without a point of reference. If you're going to blame religion on this woman doing this it's only fair to grant that it also motivates people to do things like quit a middle class job in America and go to the Ukraine for a year teaching poverty-stricken kids.

morality is a social, instinctive, and rational development, and exists with or without religion. True morality is based on empathy to other beings. I don't say human, because creatures other than can display empathy and morality, which basically throws that entire religion thesis right our the window.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: AreaCode707

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: Skoorb
It is the bane of existence. Fvck those people who use the teachings of Jesus to do things like go to an impoverished nation and start a missionary that hands out food or takes care of orphans.

You can do that WITHOUT religion. Jesus isn't the problem. God isn't the problem. Its Religion and its set ways of belief that corrupts the mind into doing things that a normal human would not do (killing your child) or doing what is right like helping those who need it, the hungry, the poor. Religion does not feed those people in poor countries and from your argument it would seem that you are saying people would not help others if it were not for religion. Thats just an asinine assumption.

IIRC religious people give more per person to charities (excluding local churches) than secular people. You CAN help people without involving religion but religious people tend to be more motivated to actually help.

For instance, how many non-religious teenagers do you know that go work with habitat for humanity or other organizations in the summer? Pretty much every religious kid I know has been on a "mission" somewhere, usually involving construction. Our group built an orphanage, kids' club and drug rehab center in Mexico over the course of 6 years.

normally any correlation between religiousness and charitable giving can be eliminated by including other factors such as income, education, and local economic and governmental factors. For instance, in places with a strong government social safety net, charitable giving will be less because it is not needed. the most religious areas of the country (the south and plains) are also the poorest and generally have weaker economic safety nets.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Well you don't have to leave it with this one episode to show religion is a cancer to society. Look throughout history. Book burnings because they are witchcraft when in fact it was only scientific study, burning people alive because they don't believe what the religious ones believe. It has and still does influence many decisions of government and normal life. Stem cell research etc. The list is endless with ignorant judgments and insane actions with religion. If you cannot see this then ok, I won't blame you for it, but at least look at religion from its inception and see its affects on humanity as a whole.

You cannot make the argument that religion is the only way "morality" has an existence on earth. Morality is normal and would be a part of society without religion.

Morality is hardly normal. Morality does not have to be tied to religion, true. But normal? If morality were normal, we wouldn't have crime. No one would ever murder someone else if morality were the norm. Morality is a social construct, which is often advanced in conjunction with religion, though it does exist outside of it. But given the way people have treated each other since the dawn of human civilization, you'd be hard pressed to convince me that morality is somehow the natural way and religion is causing everyone to go crazy.

In reality, the natural way is brutal. Look at the animal kingdom. Dolphins, one of the smartest animals on the planet, participate in gang rapes of other dolphins. Countless species participate in brutal combat to establish dominance and breed. The very notion of survival of the fittest revolves around the basic idea of "I'll kill everything else in the world if it means my genes survive." There's no morality in nature. We made it up to keep us from going off and killing everyone who posed a threat to us. And, like it or not, religion has been fairly successful in spreading the basic concepts of a universal morality to most of the world. Sure, there are considerable problems with it. But it's arguably better than living in a world where we routinely kill each other to establish dominance... well, ok, I guess religion can't prevent all our natural instincts now can it?

consider the number of people that commit murder. consider the number of people in the US.

indeed, morality is normal.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: brandonb
I'm sure the kid would be dead if the mother was religious or not. But lets blame religion not the mom. Sort of the same logic is blame the gun not the shooter. When we mature as a society, we'll figure it out, but it seems society as a whole is getting more idiotic, not smarter.

[godwins law]
lets blame the guards at the concentration camps, and give the ideology behind it a free ride.
[/godwins law]

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
People this crazy are a danger to society. The real question is, what do we do with them?

25-life