Mom kills sons, self at gun range

[Jack Flash]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Jack Flash

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
She didn't even own the gun, it belonged to the shooting range.

Perhaps we should outlaw shooting ranges??

Or simply implement better safety rules and features at that particular range. Of course, gun safety in unamerican :laugh:

What kind of safety rule prevents this type of thing from happening??

Everyone has to take turns firing the same gun?

How about people with mental illness or a history there-of can't own, practice or shoot guns at all?

Great idea!!!!

While we are at it let's pass a law that says "It is illegal to do stupid stuff." since that should cover everything and put an end to a lot of the things going wrong in this country.

Explain how my idea is a bad one.

This boy in question would like to know. 32 college students at Virginia Tech would like to know.

Should we or should we not make it as difficult as can be for a mentally ill person to get their hands on a gun?

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
She didn't even own the gun, it belonged to the shooting range.

Perhaps we should outlaw shooting ranges??

Or simply implement better safety rules and features at that particular range. Of course, gun safety in unamerican :laugh:

What kind of safety rule prevents this type of thing from happening??

Everyone has to take turns firing the same gun?

When I learned to shoot we lay down with the rifle, and only then were handed a specific number of rounds, and cleared to load and fire. After firing every round and removing all the brass we had to show the instructor the empty breach before getting up and walking off. In this way nobody who was not actually firing had a loaded weapon in their hands, and therefore, it would be impossible to walk up behind someone and shoot them, as this woman did. Simple as that.

And you couldn't have loaded the gun, turned it around, and shot the instructor? Unless you were somehow firing the gun through mind control?

I wouldn't have bet on myself to be able to do that, no, since the instructor was a paratrooper...

If you wanted to take it a step further you could put bulletproof glass on three sides (one a door) and put ammo through a little hatch or something. You would have to fire all your rounds before leaving or return them through the hatch. You'd have to buzz out and wait for someone to check you'd done that.

As you can see there's plenty which can be done. You might not like that system but you can't say there is no rule which can prevent these things.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Hacp
If you go to a shooting range, you accept a risk inherently. Its very easy for some crazy bastard to jump behind you and blow your head off. However, luckily, the risk is very small and chances are that you aren't going to be affected. Your chances of getting cancer are probably higher.

Probably?

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
That was a gun course.

Actually that was the cadets but point taken.

This was a gun range. Slightly different. Adding controls like this is very costly, which has to be passed on to someone, generally the consumer. With things tight as they are, added costs could equate to failed businesses, further exacerbating the economic crisis. Not saying some controls aren't possible, just reminding you to consider the consequences.

True but what price a young man's life? Maybe a few less gun ranges is a good thing anyway. Nothing wrong with a bit of shooting but lets not encourage a gun culture...

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
She didn't even own the gun, it belonged to the shooting range.

Perhaps we should outlaw shooting ranges??

Or simply implement better safety rules and features at that particular range. Of course, gun safety in unamerican :laugh:

Safety rules? You mean a safety rule other than don't shoot your kids at the range?

Murder is already illegal. How would additional rules have stopped her.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: ZzZGuy
Quick question by a non American. What is required in the majority of states to get a gun, and are there different rules for different types like hunting rifles vs semi auto assault rifles?

Quick question by a non American. What is required in the majority of states to get a gun, and are there different rules for different types like hunting rifles vs semi auto assault rifles?

It varies state to state.

Here is Mississippi, at gun shows you can walk in and purchase a gun with no waiting period (even handguns). You cannot buy fully automatic weapons (fires automatically as you hold the trigger down), but semi-automatic weapons (fires as fast as you can pull the trigger) are readily available. Semi-Auto military assault rifles are classified the same as hunting rifles. Registration of hunting rifles / assault rifles is not required and the government will never know that you have it.

AFAIK (I could be wrong, but I have heard of people doing this before), there are no background checks at gun shows for rifles (only handguns). You can walk into a gun show with cash, flash a non-expired Mississippi drivers license and walk out with a semi-auto AK-47 and the dealer need not even know your name (only that you are a citizen of Mississippi). There are no restrictions on high capacity magazines either and 45+ round mags are available. You can also buy large quantities of ammunition online or at the gun show for cash. AFAIK, you can have all the bells and whistles on your assault rifle (high capacity mags, flash suppressor, bayonet, pistol grip, folding stock, etc.) short of it being full-auto.

Your vehicle is treated by the law as an extension of your home and you can hide a weapon in it without a permit (you cannot take it to certain places though, like schools). You are required to have a concealed carry permit if you want to walk around with a hidden hand-gun.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Jack Flash
They need a way to verify whether someone has committed a felony or has mental illness. Can't rely on people to tell the truth.

And due to HIPAA there's no way for anyone to know.

So, do we want safety or privacy? Can't have both.

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
She didn't even own the gun, it belonged to the shooting range.

Perhaps we should outlaw shooting ranges??

Or simply implement better safety rules and features at that particular range. Of course, gun safety in unamerican :laugh:

Please, do tell what rules you would put in place to prevent this at a range? Maybe you could come up with something that would prevent people from drowning someone in a lake, or stabbing someone in a kitchen while you are at it?

See above...

And BTW, of course there are things to prevent people drowning in a lake, like a railing round the boat, or children wearing life jackets, or learning to fucking swim... what's wrong with that?

And whats preventing you from pushing someover OVER that railing and holding them under water? Or you taking the life jacket OFF the child and throwing them overboard? Whats stopping you from doing that?

So what you're saying is, children shouldn't wear life jackets, because someone might remove them, and then physically throw then children off the boat?..

That's pretty dumb man...

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Atheus
True but what price a young man's life? Maybe a few less gun ranges is a good thing anyway. Nothing wrong with a bit of shooting but lets not encourage a gun culture...

Just out of curiosity, what's your favorite hobby?

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
She didn't even own the gun, it belonged to the shooting range.

Perhaps we should outlaw shooting ranges??

Or simply implement better safety rules and features at that particular range. Of course, gun safety in unamerican :laugh:

Safety rules? You mean a safety rule other than don't shoot your kids at the range?

Murder is already illegal. How would additional rules have stopped her.

Already answered this twice...

 

[Fear No Evil]

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
She didn't even own the gun, it belonged to the shooting range.

Perhaps we should outlaw shooting ranges??

Or simply implement better safety rules and features at that particular range. Of course, gun safety in unamerican :laugh:

Please, do tell what rules you would put in place to prevent this at a range? Maybe you could come up with something that would prevent people from drowning someone in a lake, or stabbing someone in a kitchen while you are at it?

See above...

And BTW, of course there are things to prevent people drowning in a lake, like a railing round the boat, or children wearing life jackets, or learning to fucking swim... what's wrong with that?

And whats preventing you from pushing someover OVER that railing and holding them under water? Or you taking the life jacket OFF the child and throwing them overboard? Whats stopping you from doing that?

So what you're saying is, children shouldn't wear life jackets, because someone might remove them, and then physically throw then children off the boat?..

That's pretty dumb man...

I am saying its impossible to prevent bad things from happening by people who are determined to do it. Without going to the EXTREME, its impossible to prevent things like this from happening. YOU were the one that used Life Jackets as an example. Which is STUPID because they are devices to prevent ACCIDENTAL death - Not purposeful. Like I said, it won't prevent a child from drowning from a parent holding them under water. A railing won't prevent your spouse who wants you dead from pushing you over it on a cruise. This incident was not an ACCIDENTAL death but a purposely attempt to kill someone. What precautions short of extreme measures could have prevented that?

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
She didn't even own the gun, it belonged to the shooting range.

Perhaps we should outlaw shooting ranges??

Or simply implement better safety rules and features at that particular range. Of course, gun safety in unamerican :laugh:

Safety rules? You mean a safety rule other than don't shoot your kids at the range?

Murder is already illegal. How would additional rules have stopped her.

I think Atheus would like everyone to live in government-issued kevlar bubbles to protect them from themselves and eachother. Exiting such bubbles would only be OK if/when/where the government says its OK. He might just be onto something...

 

[Fear No Evil]

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
That was a gun course.

Actually that was the cadets but point taken.

This was a gun range. Slightly different. Adding controls like this is very costly, which has to be passed on to someone, generally the consumer. With things tight as they are, added costs could equate to failed businesses, further exacerbating the economic crisis. Not saying some controls aren't possible, just reminding you to consider the consequences.

True but what price a young man's life? Maybe a few less gun ranges is a good thing anyway. Nothing wrong with a bit of shooting but lets not encourage a gun culture...

And people say the religious freaks are the only ones imposing their morality on others? Maybe fewer broadband connections would make people go outside and exercise more? So lets legislate it because I don't like the internet!

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Atheus
True but what price a young man's life? Maybe a few less gun ranges is a good thing anyway. Nothing wrong with a bit of shooting but lets not encourage a gun culture...

Just out of curiosity, what's your favorite hobby?

Computers and electronics, followed by carpentry probably, or martial arts.

I know what you're going to say - lets have less facilities for those things then. I'd say there's a bit of a difference there, becasue I do believe there is a 'gun culture' in parts of the states, which is part of the reason so many people get shot. I guess that shouldn't stop people who want to shoot at targets or deer for sport though... okay fine I take that back... have as many ranges as you want but regulate them properly.

 

[Jack Flash]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
She didn't even own the gun, it belonged to the shooting range.

Perhaps we should outlaw shooting ranges??

Or simply implement better safety rules and features at that particular range. Of course, gun safety in unamerican :laugh:

Safety rules? You mean a safety rule other than don't shoot your kids at the range?

Murder is already illegal. How would additional rules have stopped her.

I think Atheus would like everyone to live in government-issued kevlar bubbles to protect them from themselves and eachother. Exiting such bubbles would only be OK if/when/where the government says its OK. He might just be onto something...

So you agree that this woman with mental illness should have been allowed to fire guns at the range?

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
She didn't even own the gun, it belonged to the shooting range.

Perhaps we should outlaw shooting ranges??

Or simply implement better safety rules and features at that particular range. Of course, gun safety in unamerican :laugh:

Safety rules? You mean a safety rule other than don't shoot your kids at the range?

Murder is already illegal. How would additional rules have stopped her.

I think Atheus would like everyone to live in government-issued kevlar bubbles to protect them from themselves and eachother. Exiting such bubbles would only be OK if/when/where the government says its OK. He might just be onto something...

I think I made some fairly sensible suggestions about safety rules if you'd care to actually read them.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
That was a gun course.

Actually that was the cadets but point taken.

This was a gun range. Slightly different. Adding controls like this is very costly, which has to be passed on to someone, generally the consumer. With things tight as they are, added costs could equate to failed businesses, further exacerbating the economic crisis. Not saying some controls aren't possible, just reminding you to consider the consequences.

True but what price a young man's life? Maybe a few less gun ranges is a good thing anyway. Nothing wrong with a bit of shooting but lets not encourage a gun culture...

And people say the religious freaks are the only ones imposing their morality on others? Maybe fewer broadband connections would make people go outside and exercise more? So lets legislate it because I don't like the internet!

Great idea!! Those interwebz are dangerous!! Besides, I don't know anyone whose livelihood depends on it, or anything, so I personally wouldn't care if there were a few less interwebz...

Even better, if people still claim they need their scary interwebs, maybe we could open a few Federal Intewebz Centers for them!

good stuff!

 

[Jack Flash]

I would like to own a tank. Should I be allowed to own a tank? Is regulation that prevents me from owning a tank acceptable?

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: palehorse

Originally posted by: Atheus
True but what price a young man's life? Maybe a few less gun ranges is a good thing anyway. Nothing wrong with a bit of shooting but lets not encourage a gun culture...

Just out of curiosity, what's your favorite hobby?

Computers and electronics, followed by carpentry probably, or martial arts.

I know what you're going to say - lets have less facilities for those things then. I'd say there's a bit of a difference there, becasue I do believe there is a 'gun culture' in parts of the states, which is part of the reason so many people get shot. I guess that shouldn't stop people who want to shoot at targets or deer for sport though... okay fine I take that back... have as many ranges as you want but regulate them properly.

"martial arts"!?!? OMG!!!!11 That shit is dangerous man! You can kill people with the Martial Arts!!

We should regulate it!!!

Please step up to the retina scanner, place your palms on the surface in front of you, and slowly state your full legal name for the record. The National Martial Arts Registration Agency thanks you for your cooperation. Have a nice day!

 

[spidey07]

What you guys aren't even getting at is she could have done this with a kitchen knife a few dozen other things. The gun or the range isn't the problem, nor is her renting a firearm.

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil

Originally posted by: Atheus

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
She didn't even own the gun, it belonged to the shooting range.

Perhaps we should outlaw shooting ranges??

Or simply implement better safety rules and features at that particular range. Of course, gun safety in unamerican :laugh:

Please, do tell what rules you would put in place to prevent this at a range? Maybe you could come up with something that would prevent people from drowning someone in a lake, or stabbing someone in a kitchen while you are at it?

See above...

And BTW, of course there are things to prevent people drowning in a lake, like a railing round the boat, or children wearing life jackets, or learning to fucking swim... what's wrong with that?

And whats preventing you from pushing someover OVER that railing and holding them under water? Or you taking the life jacket OFF the child and throwing them overboard? Whats stopping you from doing that?

So what you're saying is, children shouldn't wear life jackets, because someone might remove them, and then physically throw then children off the boat?..

That's pretty dumb man...

I am saying its impossible to prevent bad things from happening by people who are determined to do it. Without going to the EXTREME, its impossible to prevent things like this from happening. YOU were the one that used Life Jackets as an example. Which is STUPID because they are devices to prevent ACCIDENTAL death - Not purposeful. Like I said, it won't prevent a child from drowning from a parent holding them under water. A railing won't prevent your spouse who wants you dead from pushing you over it on a cruise. This incident was not an ACCIDENTAL death but a purposely attempt to kill someone. What precautions short of extreme measures could have prevented that?

Ah but you didn't ask what could prevent premeditated murder by a determined person in the general sense, you asked me 'what rules you would put in place to prevent this at a range', and I think I answered that well enough.

 

[Jack Flash]

Originally posted by: spidey07
What you guys aren't even getting at is she could have done this with a kitchen knife a few dozen other things. The gun or the range isn't the problem, nor is her renting a firearm.

The problem is that she had a history of mental illness, including involuntary hospitalization, but the range had no way of knowing this.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Jack Flash
I would like to own a tank. Should I be allowed to own a tank? Is regulation that prevents me from owning a tank acceptable?

You can own a tank.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Jack Flash

Originally posted by: spidey07
What you guys aren't even getting at is she could have done this with a kitchen knife a few dozen other things. The gun or the range isn't the problem, nor is her renting a firearm.

The problem is that she had a history of mental illness, including involuntary hospitalization, but the range had no way of knowing this.

And that was already addressed, you ignored it.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Jack Flash
I would like to own a tank. Should I be allowed to own a tank? Is regulation that prevents me from owning a tank acceptable?

You can own a tank.

And a MIG-29

A private collector, Don Kirlin, has two MiG-29s purchased from Kyrgyzstan.