Mom had angiogram, doctor's found 3 major blockages :(

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Geekbabe

Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Oct 16, 1999
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www.theshoppinqueen.com
Originally posted by: akshatp
Originally posted by: Geekbabe
Originally posted by: akshatp
Originally posted by: MDE
Personally, I'd have the bypass and fix it for good instead of the angioplasty, which seems like a quick patch to me.

This was my initial concern. I mean if the eventual roadmap is bypass anyway, why not get it over with now?

My mom is super scared of anything that requires opening her up though, because her brother and my dad's older brother both died on the table in the last 4 years during "preventative minor heart surgery". Different hospitals too.

Your mother is quite right to be frightened,she needs to weigh the risks and benefits of all courses of possible treatment including the risk of doing nothing at all. I'm not sure how old your mother is but if it were me, I'd probably just let nature run it's course rather than pursue surgical options.

I don't think doing nothing is an option. The Dr. said that two of the blockages are 80% and without treatment will affect not only her daily life as they already have(gets tired easy, naps alot) but will bring on a heart attack much sooner than later, if at all.


how old is your mother ? I know that women get a lot of protection from heart disease till menopause and that a woman who has really aggresive heart problems early in mid-life is probably screwed. I'll be 50 in jan and if I was faced with such huge, aggressive surgical options I have to tell you that I would opt to do nothing aside from medication and diet.
 

TraumaRN

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2005
6,893
63
91
To quell some things going round in this thread....and hopefully calm the OP down a little bit..

Incidence ? Combined antiplatelet therapy (aspirin plus clopidogrel) is recommended with drug-eluting as well as bare metal stents. (See "Prevention with combined antiplatelet therapy" above).

The risk of stent thrombosis appears to be similar with drug-eluting and bare metal stents [7,28,29]. This was illustrated in a 2006 meta-analysis of 19 randomized trials with 7060 patients [28]. There was no significant difference between drug-eluting and bare metal stents in the risk of stent thrombosis (0.7 versus 0.8 percent, odds ratio 0.71, 95% CI 0.41-1.25). In another meta-analysis, the rate of stent thrombosis was similar with sirolimus and paclitaxel stents (0.9 versus 1.1 percent, odds ratio 0.85, 95% CI 0.50-1.46) [30].

The same findings have been noted in studies of patients not involved in clinical trials. In an analysis of over 15,000 patients who underwent sirolimus stent implantation at 279 medical centers in 41 countries, the 12 month rate of stent thrombosis was 0.87 percent (0.13 percent acute, 0.56 percent subacute, and 0.19 percent late) [31].

Risk factors ? The following risk factors have been identified for stent thrombosis with drug-eluting stents:

Cessation of antiplatelet therapy ? Premature cessation of antiplatelet therapy appears to be the most important risk factor. In the above review in which stent thrombosis occurred in 29 of 2229 patients, premature cessation of antiplatelet therapy was associated with stent thrombosis in 5 of 17 patients (29 percent, adjusted hazard ratio 161 for subacute stent thrombosis and 57 for late stent thrombosis) [32]. The risk of late (in some cases more than one year) cessation of aspirin is discussed below. (See "Late stent thrombosis and cessation of antiplatelet therapy" below).

Similar findings were noted in a series of 38 cases of stent thrombosis occurring after drug-eluting stent implantation in 2974 consecutive patients [33]. The patients with stent thrombosis were significantly more likely to have discontinued clopidogrel (37 versus 11 percent in those without stent thrombosis). The mean duration between cessation of clopidogrel and stent thrombosis was nine days in patients with subacute stent thrombosis and 56 days with late stent thrombosis.

A possible explanation for at least some episodes of thrombosis in drug-eluting stents after cessation of antiplatelet therapy is incomplete neointimal coverage. As mention above, clopidogrel is given without interruption for at least three months for sirolimus stents and six months for paclitaxel stents. However, an angioscopy study of 37 consecutive stented lesions (15 sirolimus stents and 22 bare metal stents) suggested that neointimal coverage is often not complete at three to six months with sirolimus stents [34]: The following findings were noted on angioscopy:

Neointimal coverage was complete in all 22 bare metal stents. In contrast, neointimal coverage was complete in only 2 of the 15 sirolimus stents and three had essentially no coverage.
Thrombi were present in eight stented segments, none of which was seen on angiography. Thrombi were more common with incomplete neointimal coverage (5 of 13 versus 3 of 24 stents with complete neointimal coverage).
Other ? A variety of additional risk factors for coronary artery stent thrombosis have been identified. These include:

Failure of optimal stent placement with full stent expansion [35,36]. In a review of 652 patients, the seven patients with stent thrombosis had a smaller final balloon diameter (2.75 versus 3.00 mm) [35]. (See "General principles of the use of intracoronary stents", section on Optimal stenting).
Residual reference segment stenosis. In a series in which 15 patients with stent thrombosis were compared to 45 matched controls without stent thrombosis, significant residual reference segment stenosis was present much more often in the patients with stent thrombosis (10 of 15 versus 4 of 45 [67 versus 9 percent]) [36].
Greater stent length [7,37]. In one of the above meta-analyses, the mean stented length in patients treated with a drug-eluting stent was significantly longer in those who developed stent thrombosis (23.4 versus 21.3 mm) [7].
Multivessel stenting [31,38]. In a series of 225 such patients, stent thrombosis occurred in seven {3.1 percent) [38]. Only one event occurred while the patient was on dual antiplatelet therapy. Five of the seven thrombotic events occurred within one week and another within 45 days of stopping clopidogrel; four of these patients also stopped taking aspirin, one for a gastrointestinal bleed. Two of these events occurred within the first week after implantation and all but one occurred within the first eight months. As noted above, we recommend aspirin indefinitely and clopidogrel therapy for at least 9 to 12 months in patients who are not at high risk for bleeding. (See "Recommendations" above).
Bifurcation stenting [27,32,33,39,40], particularly with use of the crush technique [39,40]. (See "Use of intracoronary stents for specific coronary lesions", section on Bifurcation lesions).
Diabetes mellitus [31-33].
Postprocedure TIMI flow grade <3 [31].
Renal failure [32,33].
In-stent restenosis [33]
In rare cases, a hypersensitivity reaction to the stent [41]. (See "Drug-eluting intracoronary stents to prevent restenosis", section on Hypersensitivity reactions).

Source: Coronary artery stent thrombosis

Donald Cutlip, MD
Donald S Baim, MD


UpToDate performs a continuous review of over 350 journals and other resources. Updates are added as important new information is published. The literature review for version 14.2 is current through April 2006; this topic was last changed on May 15, 2006. The next version of UpToDate (14.3) will be released in October 2006.
 

akshatp

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
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Originally posted by: Geekbabe
Originally posted by: akshatp
Originally posted by: Geekbabe
Originally posted by: akshatp
Originally posted by: MDE
Personally, I'd have the bypass and fix it for good instead of the angioplasty, which seems like a quick patch to me.

This was my initial concern. I mean if the eventual roadmap is bypass anyway, why not get it over with now?

My mom is super scared of anything that requires opening her up though, because her brother and my dad's older brother both died on the table in the last 4 years during "preventative minor heart surgery". Different hospitals too.

Your mother is quite right to be frightened,she needs to weigh the risks and benefits of all courses of possible treatment including the risk of doing nothing at all. I'm not sure how old your mother is but if it were me, I'd probably just let nature run it's course rather than pursue surgical options.

I don't think doing nothing is an option. The Dr. said that two of the blockages are 80% and without treatment will affect not only her daily life as they already have(gets tired easy, naps alot) but will bring on a heart attack much sooner than later, if at all.


how old is your mother ? I know that women get a lot of protection from heart disease till menopause and that a woman who has really aggresive heart problems early in mid-life is probably screwed. I'll be 50 in jan and if I was faced with such huge, aggressive surgical options I have to tell you that I would opt to do nothing aside from medication and diet.

She turned 64 last week. She has been on a strict diet free of oily and fatty food due to her diabetes since her 40's. Also, she is a life long vegan, and eats out maybe twice a year and probably has never tasted fast food.
 

Geekbabe

Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Oct 16, 1999
32,234
2,554
126
www.theshoppinqueen.com
Originally posted by: akshatp
Originally posted by: Geekbabe
Originally posted by: akshatp
Originally posted by: Geekbabe
Originally posted by: akshatp
Originally posted by: MDE
Personally, I'd have the bypass and fix it for good instead of the angioplasty, which seems like a quick patch to me.

This was my initial concern. I mean if the eventual roadmap is bypass anyway, why not get it over with now?

My mom is super scared of anything that requires opening her up though, because her brother and my dad's older brother both died on the table in the last 4 years during "preventative minor heart surgery". Different hospitals too.

Your mother is quite right to be frightened,she needs to weigh the risks and benefits of all courses of possible treatment including the risk of doing nothing at all. I'm not sure how old your mother is but if it were me, I'd probably just let nature run it's course rather than pursue surgical options.

I don't think doing nothing is an option. The Dr. said that two of the blockages are 80% and without treatment will affect not only her daily life as they already have(gets tired easy, naps alot) but will bring on a heart attack much sooner than later, if at all.


how old is your mother ? I know that women get a lot of protection from heart disease till menopause and that a woman who has really aggresive heart problems early in mid-life is probably screwed. I'll be 50 in jan and if I was faced with such huge, aggressive surgical options I have to tell you that I would opt to do nothing aside from medication and diet.

She turned 64 last week. She has been on a strict diet free of oily and fatty food due to her diabetes since her 40's. Also, she is a life long vegan, and eats out maybe twice a year and probably has never tasted fast food.


what is her overall health and physical condition like? Bypass is big surgery is she strong enough to make it thru it? Does she also suffer from asthma or severe allergies? The stent procedure would not be an option to me due to the very real possibility that the body would attempt to reject the stents.

Whatever course she decides on I hope she feels better soon.
 

akshatp

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
8,349
0
76
Originally posted by: Geekbabe
Originally posted by: akshatp
Originally posted by: Geekbabe
Originally posted by: akshatp
Originally posted by: Geekbabe
Originally posted by: akshatp
Originally posted by: MDE
Personally, I'd have the bypass and fix it for good instead of the angioplasty, which seems like a quick patch to me.

This was my initial concern. I mean if the eventual roadmap is bypass anyway, why not get it over with now?

My mom is super scared of anything that requires opening her up though, because her brother and my dad's older brother both died on the table in the last 4 years during "preventative minor heart surgery". Different hospitals too.

Your mother is quite right to be frightened,she needs to weigh the risks and benefits of all courses of possible treatment including the risk of doing nothing at all. I'm not sure how old your mother is but if it were me, I'd probably just let nature run it's course rather than pursue surgical options.

I don't think doing nothing is an option. The Dr. said that two of the blockages are 80% and without treatment will affect not only her daily life as they already have(gets tired easy, naps alot) but will bring on a heart attack much sooner than later, if at all.


how old is your mother ? I know that women get a lot of protection from heart disease till menopause and that a woman who has really aggresive heart problems early in mid-life is probably screwed. I'll be 50 in jan and if I was faced with such huge, aggressive surgical options I have to tell you that I would opt to do nothing aside from medication and diet.

She turned 64 last week. She has been on a strict diet free of oily and fatty food due to her diabetes since her 40's. Also, she is a life long vegan, and eats out maybe twice a year and probably has never tasted fast food.


what is her overall health and physical condition like? Bypass is big surgery is she strong enough to make it thru it? Does she also suffer from asthma or severe allergies? The stent procedure would not be an option to me due to the very real possibility that the body would attempt to reject the stents.

Whatever course she decides on I hope she feels better soon.

Overall I would say she is healthy; she tries to go for a walk at least once daily and was going to the gym to do light workouts until her knee and back problems prohibited this. No asthma, allergies, etc.

I think alot of recovery from surgery depends on the patient's mental state as well as physical.

Thanks for the well wishes.
 

TraumaRN

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2005
6,893
63
91
Originally posted by: akshatp
Originally posted by: Geekbabe
Originally posted by: akshatp
Originally posted by: Geekbabe
Originally posted by: akshatp
Originally posted by: Geekbabe
Originally posted by: akshatp
Originally posted by: MDE
Personally, I'd have the bypass and fix it for good instead of the angioplasty, which seems like a quick patch to me.

This was my initial concern. I mean if the eventual roadmap is bypass anyway, why not get it over with now?

My mom is super scared of anything that requires opening her up though, because her brother and my dad's older brother both died on the table in the last 4 years during "preventative minor heart surgery". Different hospitals too.

Your mother is quite right to be frightened,she needs to weigh the risks and benefits of all courses of possible treatment including the risk of doing nothing at all. I'm not sure how old your mother is but if it were me, I'd probably just let nature run it's course rather than pursue surgical options.

I don't think doing nothing is an option. The Dr. said that two of the blockages are 80% and without treatment will affect not only her daily life as they already have(gets tired easy, naps alot) but will bring on a heart attack much sooner than later, if at all.


how old is your mother ? I know that women get a lot of protection from heart disease till menopause and that a woman who has really aggresive heart problems early in mid-life is probably screwed. I'll be 50 in jan and if I was faced with such huge, aggressive surgical options I have to tell you that I would opt to do nothing aside from medication and diet.

She turned 64 last week. She has been on a strict diet free of oily and fatty food due to her diabetes since her 40's. Also, she is a life long vegan, and eats out maybe twice a year and probably has never tasted fast food.


what is her overall health and physical condition like? Bypass is big surgery is she strong enough to make it thru it? Does she also suffer from asthma or severe allergies? The stent procedure would not be an option to me due to the very real possibility that the body would attempt to reject the stents.

Whatever course she decides on I hope she feels better soon.

Overall I would say she is healthy; she tries to go for a walk at least once daily and was going to the gym to do light workouts until her knee and back problems prohibited this. No asthma, allergies, etc.

I think alot of recovery from surgery depends on the patient's mental state as well as physical.

Thanks for the well wishes.

OP, be sure to read what I posted as well. I know it's long and medicalese but I'm sure you can pick out the important parts. The risk is low, but goes up if you have certain medical conditions/risk factors.
 

unsped

Platinum Member
Mar 18, 2000
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my grandfather had open heart 2 seperate times, lived along time after that. i think he had the first on when he was 55 or 60? lives to 80something (would have been longer if he had taken his meds and taken care of himself). wishing your mom well.
 
Oct 9, 1999
15,216
3
81
depends.. sometimes its not possible to put a stent.. my dad had open bypass cause the block was on the aorta and a branch .. so it depends on where the block is.

also diabetic patients cant feel the pain of a heart attack.. good she is having it done.
 

akshatp

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
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Originally posted by: TheGoodGuy
depends.. sometimes its not possible to put a stent.. my dad had open bypass cause the block was on the aorta and a branch .. so it depends on where the block is.

also diabetic patients cant feel the pain of a heart attack.. good she is having it done.

Yea the Doc said that her nerve endings will not alert her brain about the early warning sign pains that a normal patient would.
 

BullyCanadian

Platinum Member
May 4, 2003
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Honestly I wouldnt know, but I wish the best of luck to your mom. Try and get more food that 'ups' good cholesterol (HDL i believe) and get started on a good diet stat. Its hard at first but it will benefit a lot.
 

Wag

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
8,288
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My Dad is 78 and has 3 stents and has had a number of angioplasties with 3 stents and is doing quite well.
 

akshatp

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
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76
Originally posted by: Wag
My Dad is 78 and has 3 stents and has had a number of angioplasties with 3 stents and is doing quite well.

No need for bypass or pacemaker or anything? Does he exercise alot? Any other major disease?
 

akshatp

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
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76
UPDATE: My mom had the angioplasty done on Wednesday; the Dr. inserted two coated stents and she is home and doing well.

They had to keep her an extra day for observation due to high enzyme levels in her heart, but other than that all is well. She is already walking around and doing stuff, nothing strenous obviously.

She is taking medication and is now on a strict diet for the third (minor) blockage.

Thanks to all for the replies and advice.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
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My dad had stents put in (angioplasty if that's what you call it) and he's well off now. The only thing is, I think they have to take your oxygen away for a while and he does have a bit of hearing loss. I was only in 3rd grade when it happened (dad was about 48) so I don't really remember what they did.
 

akshatp

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
8,349
0
76
Originally posted by: xtknight
My dad had stents put in (angioplasty if that's what you call it) and he's well off now. The only thing is, I think they have to take your oxygen away for a while and he does have a bit of hearing loss. I was only in 3rd grade when it happened (dad was about 48) so I don't really remember what they did.

How old is he now? Has his hearing gotten worse over the years?