SaltBoy
Diamond Member
- Aug 13, 2001
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I don't mean to thread crap -- those are pretty cool sites -- but I believe because of faith, not scientific proof -- somebody that is trying to build up their faith on the foundation of science is going to run into a LOT of dead ends... 
Ephesians 2:20 comes to mind.
Ephesians 2:20 comes to mind.Originally posted by: SaltBoy
I don't mean to thread crap -- those are pretty cool sites -- but I believe because of faith, not scientific proof -- somebody that is trying to build up their faith on the foundation of science is going to run into a LOT of dead ends...
Yeah, but some need a foundation of science, logic, reason, for their personal faith to build. When faith becomes central, if it is true faith they will realize it takes more than science to strengthen it. Until then, whatever furthers the kingdom is fine by me...
Originally posted by: SaltBoy
I don't mean to thread crap -- those are pretty cool sites -- but I believe because of faith, not scientific proof -- somebody that is trying to build up their faith on the foundation of science is going to run into a LOT of dead ends...
I would have to agree w/ you SALTBOY whats with the embarrisins face above^, you have nothing to be embarresed about
The end has begun
I don't believe, because, as I see it, faith is nothing more than naivety. I will not accept something just because ONE book says so, and a few million people have read this book and think it is incredibly great. My belief system is based on observation and reasoning. You might say I have "faith" in evolution, but I personally can see how evolution would occur. All the steps in evolution make sense.
Oh, and another thing:
way back in the day, god was performing all these miracles to get people to believe in him (pillars of fire, mana, etc). it obviously didn't work (sodom, gomorah, jericho, all the other who didn't follow)... so now he's trying this policy of nonintervention (no miracles for 2000 years). I don't know about you, but I dont think that's working all that well either. Look at all the atheists in china, hindus in india, etc. But... God is supposed to be all-knowing, right? So he KNEW that the miracles wouldn't work, and that this current policy of non-intervention wouldn't work... so why doesn't he just save himself the effort and skip to what works? Why bother doing stuff that he knows ahead of time will not work? How many thousands of years until he finds some happy middle that DOES work? Does he LIKE sending people to hell?
Anyway, if "god" does exist, and he chooses to send me to hell because I didn't believe a bunch of naive people who dedicate their lives to someone they can't see and have no evidence of just because of a book during the 70-90 expected years of my live, I wouldn't WANT to be with that god in "heaven". Maybe satan is more rational.
edit: I don't get it why Christians tend to accept not knowing the answers to quesitons about their god. How can you possibly say "I don't know" and not want to find out? (based on discussions with my religious friends)
edit2: and another thing... why don't christians understand that you don't need a god to be "moral"? Are all you christians bad people inside who are only "good" because you fear god is gonna send you to hell? Admittedly, I wouldn't consider myself "moral", since my actions are determined by what I expect will be best for me personally. It just happens that if you treat others well, you tend to be treated well, and if you abuse others, you won't be treated well either.
edit3: and before you start spouting stuff about how evolution is a load of bunk and creationism is such a perfect explanation, read this. EVERY creationist I've argued with has hit exactly the points listed in that article and no others. Can you really not come up with any more attacks which are not covered by that ONE article?
edit4: my sig is about this, not religion
I don't believe, because, as I see it, faith is nothing more than naivety. I will not accept something just because ONE book says so, and a few million people have read this book and think it is incredibly great. My belief system is based on observation and reasoning. You might say I have "faith" in evolution, but I personally can see how evolution would occur. All the steps in evolution make sense.
Oh, and another thing:
way back in the day, god was performing all these miracles to get people to believe in him (pillars of fire, mana, etc). it obviously didn't work (sodom, gomorah, jericho, all the other who didn't follow)... so now he's trying this policy of nonintervention (no miracles for 2000 years). I don't know about you, but I dont think that's working all that well either. Look at all the atheists in china, hindus in india, etc. But... God is supposed to be all-knowing, right? So he KNEW that the miracles wouldn't work, and that this current policy of non-intervention wouldn't work... so why doesn't he just save himself the effort and skip to what works? Why bother doing stuff that he knows ahead of time will not work? How many thousands of years until he finds some happy middle that DOES work? Does he LIKE sending people to hell?
Anyway, if "god" does exist, and he chooses to send me to hell because I didn't believe a bunch of naive people who dedicate their lives to someone they can't see and have no evidence of just because of a book during the 70-90 expected years of my live, I wouldn't WANT to be with that god in "heaven". Maybe satan is more rational.
edit: I don't get it why Christians tend to accept not knowing the answers to quesitons about their god. How can you possibly say "I don't know" and not want to find out? (based on discussions with my religious friends)
edit2: and another thing... why don't christians understand that you don't need a god to be "moral"? Are all you christians bad people inside who are only "good" because you fear god is gonna send you to hell? Admittedly, I wouldn't consider myself "moral", since my actions are determined by what I expect will be best for me personally. It just happens that if you treat others well, you tend to be treated well, and if you abuse others, you won't be treated well either.
edit3: and before you start spouting stuff about how evolution is a load of bunk and creationism is such a perfect explanation, read this. EVERY creationist I've argued with has hit exactly the points listed in that article and no others. Can you really not come up with any more attacks which are not covered by that ONE article?
edit4: my sig is about this, not religion
If the evidence goes in the opposite direction of the faith to which you hold, then your faith is foolishness and blind. And I don't personally see how (after reading through those verses a few times), Ephesians 2:20 supports or promotes blind faith.
When Paul preached he didn't say believe what I say because faith is necessary to be Saved, no, he reasoned with the people. To believe something contrary to the evidence is unreasonable, and for that matter a very precarious and difficult position to defend unless of course you enjoy going in circles. Science is a form of evidence, and it must therefore agree with Scripture.
Dave
Maybe then you can explain the step when one kind of animal changes into another kind of animal, seeing as there is no proof of such an event ever occuring.
You are going to Hell because you don't believe in God, and thusly by sending you to Hell God is giving you what you want. You say you don't want to know him or spend time getting to know Him by reading His book the Bible, so he will send you to Hell, and then ultimately to the lake of fire, a place where He doesn't exist.
God is not at fault for the decisions that men make. There is more than enough evidence to believe in Jesus Christ, the fact of the matter today as it was back then is that men don't want to serve the Most High, they want the Most High to serve them. The reason Satan fell is the same reason most individuals will spend eternity in the lake of fire, PRIDE.
Dave
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