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Modern Society is on an unsustainable course

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0marTheZealot

Golden Member
For evidence I present the follow:

http://www.dieoff.org/page174.htm
http://www.dieoff.org/page102.htm
http://www.dieoff.org/page36.htm
http://www.dieoff.org/page157.htm
http://www.dieoff.org/page165.htm


Based on this and other evidence (declining fisheries, destruction of forests and habitats, natural resource depletion, the institution of a broad welfare state, erosion of soils, pollution), modern society is unsustainable. Presently, we are living off inherited capital from eons ago. As soon as that capital runs out, we will be left with the bill and mother nature collects every bill one way or another.

Forget terrorism, meaningless policy changes, hybrid cars and all the other little novelties of modern society. Anyone with a background in science or engineering should be able to see that our course is suicide. Unchecked growth, unsound economic policies and belief in technology fuels this. For example, we still don't have technological solutions to many problems in modern society, such as pollution removal, disease, resource depletion, and a host of other problems. Blind belief in technology is the same as blind belief that a savior will solve all our ills.

This is a problem that is 100 or 200 years away. This is a problem that has already shown it's ugly head around the world and will continue to do so for the next couple generations. And within 20-30 years, the problems will come to a head where standards of living around the world could potentially crash, which in turn may lead to a population crash. Most young people here and a large number of middle aged individuals would be directly effected. Jobs, health, and safety are all under attack here.
 
Well, if we are all FUSKED then maybe we should just give in? I'll order my Hummer tomorrow. 🙂

I don't know, Omar, I have a lot of faith in technology, but I have even more faith in human beings. (I can't believe I'm saying this after Bush got 51% of the vote.)

-Robert

 
Originally posted by: chess9
Well, if we are all FUSKED then maybe we should just give in? I'll order my Hummer tomorrow. 🙂

I don't know, Omar, I have a lot of faith in technology, but I have even more faith in sheep becuase Bush got 51% of the vote.

-Robert
Click to expand...


Fixed. 😉
 
Population control is just a politically correct way of being racist. And yet the idea lives on, despite that everyone who has ever espoused this theory from Malthus on has been so completely wrong in their projections. This sound familiar?

"The battle to feed all of humanity is over. In the 1970?s the world will undergo famines-hundreds of millions of people are going to starve to death in spite of any crash programs embarked upon now. At this late date nothing can prevent a substantial increase in the world death rate, although many lives could be saved through dramatic programs to stretch the carrying capacity of the earth by increasing food production. But these programs will only provide a stay of execution unless they are accompanied by determined and successful efforts at population control."

"The Population Bomb", Dr. Paul R. Ehrlich, 1968
 
The sun'll come out
Tomorrow
Bet your bottom dollar
That tomorrow
There'll be sun!

Just thinkin' about
Tomorrow
Clears away the cobwebs,
And the sorrow
'Til there's none!

When I'm stuck a day
That's gray,
And lonely,
I just stick out my chin
And Grin,
And Say,
Oh!

The sun'll come out
Tomorrow
So ya gotta hang on
'Til tomorrow
Come what may
Tomorrow! Tomorrow!
I love ya Tomorrow!
You're always
A day
A way!
 
Originally posted by: SuperTool
So why is it unsustainable? If we run out of resources, people will die, and then those who remain will be sustainable.
Click to expand...

No, because most of the resources left won't be in a usable state. For example, most of the mines for minerals are at like .2% percent grade. Usually, they are at 50-70% grade. What little minerals we have left are being extracted using very energy intensive ways. Forests may take hundreds of years to recover from a scant 5 decades of abuse. Global climate change may significantly alter many cycles and processes that haven't seen this sort of pertubation, in such a short period, in millenia. Erosion of topsoil this century will take thousands of years to replenish. Agriculture won't have land to fertilize when the pre-requiste for fertilization is gone. In short, our actions in the next few decades, if continued unchecked, may permenantly and irreversibly (at least on a timescale meaningful to Homo Sapiens) alter the planet's natural cycles.

Population control is an admirable thing. What is better, 6-7 billion people suffering while an elite few enjoy massive prosperity or 1-2 billion people enjoying a comfortable living?

It has been caculated in Limits to Growth that it would take the equivalant of 6 earths to bring every person in the world to a US's citizens standard of living. Clearly, this is not feasible. The carrying capacity of the earth is not infinite. If it were, it would be surronded by bacteria 6-8 meters deep by now. Each species has its own livable space and if it grows beyond it, the population either finds a new habitat or populations come in line to what is commensurate with the resources available.

A finite world can only support a finite number of people and growing evidence is showing that that number of people has been exceeded. By how much, we aren't certain. However, it can be surmised that our current course is unsustainable. And crash within a generation is not unlikely. Meaning, within 30 years, we could potentially see the first effects of a population crash and all the social, political, economic and cultural strife along with it.
 
There are groups out there. Very powerful groups who's agenda is rumored to be, among other things, the control over world population. Some of their ultimate goals is to eventually force the world's population down to six million. That's the part I find hard to belieave. They are charged with over blowing statistics on purpose to create a climate of fear over this issue and to make certain things socially acceptable to the mass'.

Where does this all supposed to take place for now where it is socially acceptable, especially to the West? Africa.

Is it true? There's no way to confirm this but there sure are a whole lot of circumstantial evidence to back this up.
 
the first articale made me somewaht happy, becasue here in the USA we are not yet overpopulated. 200 million would be a feasable population with a very comfortable lifestyle IMO.

Onfortunately China and India (and pakistan, iran, ethiopia, nigeria, bangladesh etc) are all fucked.

The US, Canada, argentina, and maybe russia of all places might be the better places to be. N. europe might be ok as well.
 
Originally posted by: bamacre
Ok.

What are we supposed to do to fix this? Or are you bringing forth a problem without also a solution?
Click to expand...

What is wrong with recognising a problem with no solution?

Are you saying i can't say there are problems in iraq without knowing how to fix them...riiiiight...:roll:
 
There is a solution.

1. Stop buying sh!t you don't need. That fancy new 19" LCD is not needed. Nor is that 4th car or that new yacht or that new 9.1 stereo system or another electric toothbrush. What you need is a good family, a satisfying job, a roof over your head, clean water, some entertainment and three meals. Everything else is superflous.
2. Sell your house and move closer to work.
3. Sell your car and start establishing links in your neighborhood.
4. Buy "environmentally-friendly" food. Look for food specifically grown organically and with minimal loss of topsoil.
5. Don't have kids. If you do, have one child and stop. 2.1 children per family is replacement level. With our current momentum in population, going at replacement would surge us to 8 billion people before dropping to 7 billion by 2050 or so. We don't need ot be at replacement, we need to be under.
6. Quit investing. The majority of companies are on an exploit or die mentality. Very few want to live commensurately with the environment.
7. Advise 10 people to do the same.

See how hard this is? No one will want to do even half of that list. Hell, I don't all of them (specificially #4). It business as usual for everyone until the sh!t hits the fan.
 
Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
There is a solution.

1. Stop buying sh!t you don't need. That fancy new 19" LCD is not needed. Nor is that 4th car or that new yacht or that new 9.1 stereo system or another electric toothbrush. What you need is a good family, a satisfying job, a roof over your head, clean water, some entertainment and three meals. Everything else is superflous.
2. Sell your house and move closer to work.
3. Sell your car and start establishing links in your neighborhood.
4. Buy "environmentally-friendly" food. Look for food specifically grown organically and with minimal loss of topsoil.
5. Don't have kids. If you do, have one child and stop. 2.1 children per family is replacement level. With our current momentum in population, going at replacement would surge us to 8 billion people before dropping to 7 billion by 2050 or so. We don't need ot be at replacement, we need to be under.
6. Quit investing. The majority of companies are on an exploit or die mentality. Very few want to live commensurately with the environment.
7. Advise 10 people to do the same.

See how hard this is? No one will want to do even half of that list. Hell, I don't all of them (specificially #4). It business as usual for everyone until the sh!t hits the fan.
Click to expand...

#6 Buy land.
 
As far as humans depleting resources we're screwed. However population control is something that I think can happen feasibly. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask people to stop at 2-3 kids max. I remeber hearing something about how mother nature has a way of balancing out things like overpopulation. Just imagine something like the Plague sweeping through India/China, millions of people could easily die.
 
this all will be fixed when we go to war with china......yes alot of us will die but even if we lose we'd bring over half of thier country with us.
 
Originally posted by: miketheidiot


The US, Canada, argentina, and maybe russia of all places might be the better places to be. .
Click to expand...

EDIT: The US of all places might be the better place to be if u dont wanna be bombed by Bush 😉

 
Originally posted by: jai6638
Originally posted by: miketheidiot


The US, Canada, argentina, and maybe russia of all places might be the better places to be. .
Click to expand...

EDIT: The US of all places might be the better place to be if u dont wanna be bombed by Bush 😉
Click to expand...

and i guess the US might not be the best place to be when everone starts to get real pissed and decide to have a last hurrah.
 
This is nuts. Stop worrying so much about the planet. Just live your life. The worst thing that'll happen is you die, and even then it helps with the population control 🙂
 
Humans are very adaptable. We can survive much further than this planet will allow. Space is full of solar, hydrogen and metals.
The number one thing you can do is get an education, learn of new ways to adapt and make things more efficient and productive.

GM crops were the most recent advance to feed the world...improvements like these will allow humans to survive.

Under today's standards it is looking grim...but by the time we get to that point...there will have been 200years of technology!!...look at what has been developed in just 50...i am not worry about this at all.
 
Supertool

So have no respect for your fellow human beings, and future generations. Continue plundering and wasting. What does it matter right? Do what you want whenever you want however you want and fvk the consequences. That's how we are in this situation.
 
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