Interesting conversation. What about using a deep cycle marine battery? These are the batteries that are used in a high end battery backup for a home sump pump (with external outlets). I couldn't imaging a product meant for indoors, releasing Hydrogen gas.
The reason I thought of this, is because my parents just bought this for their newly finished basement. I saw that thing, and I was considering buying one for my DC farm.
Or even like the OP wants. I could just pull the battery from my APC 800va, and replace it with a deep cycle marine battery. I've been considering this for a while.
soydios
Platinum Member
- Mar 12, 2006
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Lead-acid batteries use sulfuric acid (H2SO4, a strong and nasty acid). They produce hydrogen gas when they are overcharged. Acid will only leak out of the battery if it is left on its side. If the battery gets knocked over, immediately put it upright, and wash your hands as soon as possible. Sulfuric acid is nasty stuff, and it's especially concentrated in a car battery. The caps on the battery will keep any splashing in (think of what is happening to the fluid in the battery when you're taking a fast corner in your car, or going over bumps: it's sloshing around).
The voltages inside the battery degenerate very very slowly as it is being discharged. It only shows changes of greater than 1.0 volts when it is approaching complete discharge. CAUTION: car batteries, though they only produce 12 volts, have absurdly high amperages. A short creates a pretty exciting spark, and if you were to be electrocuted you stand a good chance of dying on the spot. Do not let any metal whatsoever touch the battery terminals (unless of course you're connecting it, when you should expect a decent spark).
The UPS control unit might just think that the car battery and the stock battery are identical. They both supply the same voltage, it's just the car battery is bigger, so it has more sulfuric acid in it, which translates into a longer run time (more amp-hours). Accordingly, it would also take much longer to recharge. The higher amperage of the car battery would be appropriately restricted by the UPS control unit, I'm guessing. To further increase the run time of your system, you could wire the batteries in parallel (not series; series increases voltage and keeps the same amperage, parallel keeps the same voltage and increases amperage), but it would take forever and a day to recharge them.
I too would recommend using a more expensive marine deep-cycle battery for use in the backup, as this is basically the exact duty cycle this kind of battery is designed for. Car batteries are indeed designed to run the interior lights and the radio for maybe 30 minutes, then start the car, then recharge during your 15-minute or longer commute (lots of short trips, like under 5 minutes, are bad for your battery and your car in general, for many reasons; the battery doesn't fully recharge, and the moisture in the car's oil isn't fully evaporated off, which degrades the oil).
The voltages inside the battery degenerate very very slowly as it is being discharged. It only shows changes of greater than 1.0 volts when it is approaching complete discharge. CAUTION: car batteries, though they only produce 12 volts, have absurdly high amperages. A short creates a pretty exciting spark, and if you were to be electrocuted you stand a good chance of dying on the spot. Do not let any metal whatsoever touch the battery terminals (unless of course you're connecting it, when you should expect a decent spark).
The UPS control unit might just think that the car battery and the stock battery are identical. They both supply the same voltage, it's just the car battery is bigger, so it has more sulfuric acid in it, which translates into a longer run time (more amp-hours). Accordingly, it would also take much longer to recharge. The higher amperage of the car battery would be appropriately restricted by the UPS control unit, I'm guessing. To further increase the run time of your system, you could wire the batteries in parallel (not series; series increases voltage and keeps the same amperage, parallel keeps the same voltage and increases amperage), but it would take forever and a day to recharge them.
I too would recommend using a more expensive marine deep-cycle battery for use in the backup, as this is basically the exact duty cycle this kind of battery is designed for. Car batteries are indeed designed to run the interior lights and the radio for maybe 30 minutes, then start the car, then recharge during your 15-minute or longer commute (lots of short trips, like under 5 minutes, are bad for your battery and your car in general, for many reasons; the battery doesn't fully recharge, and the moisture in the car's oil isn't fully evaporated off, which degrades the oil).
You could try a slighlty higher Ah rated battery.
A car battery would work for running the UPS off of, but the UPS circuitry would not charge the car battery fully. The charging circuit will overheat and shutdown, or worse, especially after trying to charge the higher rated battery many times over.
There's your answer.
So lets look at this another way. What do you have connected to your UPS currently? You should only have the CPU, Monitor, and ONLY the peripherals needed to manually shutdown. NO speakers, printers, lights, external harddrives, etc.
I have one large UPS for my main CPU and FlatPanel. I have another that powers only my local LAN. Hooking up a cable modem to a UPS is pointless as if you lose power, the cable node lost power too.
A ups should be used for filtering power, and giving you just enough time to shutdown manually until the automatic shutdown/hibernation is initiated by the UPS software.
UPS's should not be used to run computers indefinately while the power is out.
A car battery would work for running the UPS off of, but the UPS circuitry would not charge the car battery fully. The charging circuit will overheat and shutdown, or worse, especially after trying to charge the higher rated battery many times over.
There's your answer.
So lets look at this another way. What do you have connected to your UPS currently? You should only have the CPU, Monitor, and ONLY the peripherals needed to manually shutdown. NO speakers, printers, lights, external harddrives, etc.
I have one large UPS for my main CPU and FlatPanel. I have another that powers only my local LAN. Hooking up a cable modem to a UPS is pointless as if you lose power, the cable node lost power too.
A ups should be used for filtering power, and giving you just enough time to shutdown manually until the automatic shutdown/hibernation is initiated by the UPS software.
UPS's should not be used to run computers indefinately while the power is out.
What do you mean by that? Can you give more detail please?
Let's say I am placing an order online and I lose power because a circuit breaker trips. If I have my cable modem connected to my UPS, I can continue my order after I take care of the circuit breaker.
But, if I don't, I will lose the connection and I may have to login again and re-enter everything again on the order form.
You lose power to your house, you stand an excellent chance of losing power to the nodes power supply. If your neighborhood is a split node, then you might get off lucky. *Former cable guy.
Fair point.....In the case of a breaker, a ups would keep you online, though breakers tripping are rare as well.. least for me.
The "node" is actually the cable system in your neighborhood. High-rises are typically their own node, some streets are their own node, and some smaller neighborhoods are on just one node, where as larger neighborhoods are sometimes part of multiple cable nodes.
THe example I gave of a power failure more often than not also affects the power supply of the cable node you are residing in. Most power failures are utility based, and not dwelling related, so they kill power to you and the houses around you, as well the power supply for the node you are in for the cable system.
DSL on the other hand is different in the way it carries power/signal, and you can use a UPS to keep your DSL modem up during most neighborhood wide power failures and stay online.
Jeff7
Lifer
- Jan 4, 2001
- 41,596
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If the power goes out here, the cable almost never goes out along with it. The cable will generally only go out when the power IS working normally.
<-- cable modem and PC are all on backup power. PC also has TV capability.
But I have no idea what the power grid is like out here. It's a rural area, so it's probably some really screwy, old grid pattern.
Most all communication gear (including cable head ends/termination systems) are on battery that can last for hours at a time. So you'd be fine.
You don't lose phone service when your power goes out. The phone switch has batteries. huge 1000+ pound ones.
Head ends do, individual nodes do not. Again, node supply loses power, your cable and internet is out.
You can definitely increase the capacity (run-time) by increasing the battery size. Deep cycle marine batteries are one possibility, but for indoor use I would recommend another SLA battery due to less concerns over outgassing and they don't mind being knocked over.
The places with the best prices that I've seen on SLA's is www.batteryspace.com , www.batteryjunction.com and www.all-battery.com.
The places with the best prices that I've seen on SLA's is www.batteryspace.com , www.batteryjunction.com and www.all-battery.com.
Guess it would depend on the provider then. Where I'm from cable sytems all have battery power and you don't lose it when the power is out. All the cable modems are in the fiber hut (where the switch from coax to fiber is) which is well protected power wise.
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