Mobo for dual core processer

[Meuge]

Instead of the flaming, I figure we should refer to the man himself. Maybe some of you are afraid to email people you don't know, but it's a common requirement in the academic community. Let's see what he says. I, for one, would be really interested in hearing his version of what was said, as well as its implications.

Originally posted by: EMAIL
Dear Mr. Wohlever!

You were quoted at an online discussion forum dedicated to computer techonology, as saying: "there's really no [motherboard] that can fully exploit the full processing capabilities of the new dual-core CPUs."

This quote started a very active discussion, and I was wondering if you could clarify your position if you have the time to do so. Your input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
XXXX

P.S. You can find the discussion (with an unfortunate amount of flaming so often found on such forums) here:
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=27&threadid=1784475
---------------------------
Xxxx Xxxx
MD-PhD Fellow
XXXX Institute of Biomedical Sciences
XXXX School Of Medicine
xxxx.xxxx@xxx.edu
---------------------------

(didn't want to post my personal info here, so please forgive the X-s)

 

[pkme2]

:thumbsup:

Thanks, Meuge! Your involvement surely reinforces my idea of fairplay.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: pkme2
:thumbsup:
Thanks, Meuge! Your involvement surely reinforces my idea of fairplay.

I figure we might as well ask him.

In any case, my personal opinion is that what he meant is that a dual-core system will not utilize the 2 cores with the same efficiency as a dual-processor system would. In this case, he's probably right. However, the difference is minimal (in my experience). Since I saw a nearly (!) 2-fold increase in speed when using dual-core (as opposed to single-core) in calculation-intensive applications (DVDShrink), I am pretty sure you're safe going with any of the popular Socket 939 motherboards.

In short, the benefit of using a single dual-core CPU might not be as great as when using dual single-core CPUs, but the advantage of the dual-core CPUs lies in the flexibility on the systems, as well as the relatively low cost. If you can get 90% of the benefits at 1/2-1/3 the price, it is probably worth it to go that way.

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: mechBgon

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Another thread where a name of somebody highly qualified in his field is mentioned and ALall the kiddies who have no education and probably are still in jr high school jump on the band wagon making such absurd statements as this dude doesn`t know what he is talking about.....

Its highly funny that most everybody except for ribbon13( who is a total class act)jumped on the this dude doesn`t know what he is talking about band wagon....

And people wonder why the P & N forums is considered to be kiddie land...rofl

We happen to be correct. When a dual-core processor results in 2x the performance doing real-world work, there is no question that it's being used effectively. If the director of so-&-so is being accurately quoted, then he needs to retake his Reality+ certification test. Pick any run-of-the-mill A64 X2-compatible motherboard and you're all set, pkme2.

Ok...so lets see...your still in high school and your saying that somebody who probably has a PHD in his field of study is wrong??

What qualifies you to say that?
Surely not your Jr high School Diploma...hmm

Amusing. How old do you think I am, out of curiosity? 😀

Reality is the acid test. My results empirically demonstrate that current nForce4-based motherboards do fully utilize both cores. They're not being bottlenecked by the motherboard or I wouldn't get a 100% performance boost (in a real-world app I use at work, I might add). Any hypothesis to the contrary is thus disproven.

If you want to argue about it, then you're welcome to explain how a 100% performance boost and incredibly smooth mulitasking do not qualify as "full utilization" of the second core. If you can't defend your point with facts and logic, then don't resort to personal insults as a substitute.


I guess I'll add that anyone who does heavy multitasking and gets unsatisfactory performance should certainly consider a dual-core upgrade. I don't regret spending the money for mine, even if it wasn't cheap. And it was a simple drop-in upgrade since I had Socket939 already. If you don't run multiple CPU-intensive tasks at the same time, or have any multithreaded apps either, then it might not be time yet. Personally, I'm looking forward to quad-core :evil:

 

[pkme2]

'Pick any run-of-the-mill A64 X2-compatible motherboard and you're all set, pkme2.'
That's where I disagree with you. I'm trying to build a better system and this is your recommendation, that's really highschool thinking. You seem to know what you talking about but your intellectual approach seems to be......

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: pkme2
'Pick any run-of-the-mill A64 X2-compatible motherboard and you're all set, pkme2.'
That's where I disagree with you. I'm trying to build a better system and this is your recommendation, that's really highschool thinking. You seem to know what you talking about but your intellectual approach seems to be......

Pick an Asus or DFI NForce 4 mobo. Other brands could also be picked, but Asus and DFI are safe bets at this time.

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: pkme2
'Pick any run-of-the-mill A64 X2-compatible motherboard and you're all set, pkme2.'
That's where I disagree with you. I'm trying to build a better system and this is your recommendation, that's really highschool thinking. You seem to know what you talking about but your intellectual approach seems to be......

Your post is centered around finding a motherboard that will "fully utilize" a dual-core processor. The real-world evidence shows that there is no inherent bottleneck at the chipset level on current A64 X2 boards, so any of them will meet that criterion. It's like someone asking for a recommendation on a 6-cylinder-powered car that will "fully utilize" all six cylinders in its engine. 😀

If you would like a more specific recommendation, then you need to post your desired mobo specs, because my crystal ball is off at the polishing shop again 😉 For example:

1. How many standard PCI slots will you need?
   
2. Do you need SLI support?
   
3. Do you have a preferred price ceiling that we should stay beneath?
   
4. Do you need onboard FireWire?
   
5. Do you need more than one onboard NIC?
   
6. Do you need it to coexist with any hardware that you have already? If so, what? Particularly, do you need AGP support?
   
7. Of increasing importance: what PSU do you have for this system, or intend to get?

and stuff like that. There are lots of very knowledgeable people here who can help you with mobo selection if you can get past the question of full dual-core utilization and move on to the stuff that lets us propose specific models for you.

edit: maybe it will help if you think about the fact that on an A64 X2, the CPU itself contains not only the two CPU cores, but also the northbridge and memory controllers. Any shortcomings in the memory pipeline or whatnot are inside the CPU itself, regardless of what motherboard it's on.

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: mechBgon

Originally posted by: pkme2
'Pick any run-of-the-mill A64 X2-compatible motherboard and you're all set, pkme2.'
That's where I disagree with you. I'm trying to build a better system and this is your recommendation, that's really highschool thinking. You seem to know what you talking about but your intellectual approach seems to be......

Your post is centered around finding a motherboard that will "fully utilize" a dual-core processor. The real-world evidence shows that there is no inherent bottleneck at the chipset level on current A64 X2 boards, so any of them will meet that criterion. It's like someone asking for a recommendation on a 6-cylinder-powered car that will "fully utilize" all six cylinders in its engine. 😀

If you would like a more specific recommendation, then you need to post your desired mobo specs, because my crystal ball is off at the polishing shop again 😉 For example:

1. How many standard PCI slots will you need?
   
2. Do you need SLI support?
   
3. Do you have a preferred price ceiling that we should stay beneath?
   
4. Do you need onboard FireWire?
   
5. Do you need more than one onboard NIC?
   
6. Do you need it to coexist with any hardware that you have already? If so, what? Particularly, do you need AGP support?
   
7. Of increasing importance: what PSU do you have for this system, or intend to get?

and stuff like that. There are lots of very knowledgeable people here who can help you with mobo selection if you can get past the question of full dual-core utilization and move on to the stuff that lets us propose specific models for you.

edit: maybe it will help if you think about the fact that on an A64 X2, the CPU itself contains not only the two CPU cores, but also the northbridge and memory controllers. Any shortcomings in the memory pipeline or whatnot are inside the CPU itself, regardless of what motherboard it's on.

QFT
Excellent post m8!

 

[pkme2]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: pkme2
'Pick any run-of-the-mill A64 X2-compatible motherboard and you're all set, pkme2.'
That's where I disagree with you. I'm trying to build a better system and this is your recommendation, that's really highschool thinking. You seem to know what you talking about but your intellectual approach seems to be......

Pick an Asus or DFI NForce 4 mobo. Other brands could also be picked, but Asus and DFI are safe bets at this time.

Now we're getting closer..

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: pkme2

Now we're getting closer..

So, all you want is the name of a good mobo...
Asus A8n32-SLI Deluxe is the best 1P mobo made at the moment for non-overclockers. It has 8 phase power (the most stable) and every possible whistle and bell you could want (with the exception of SCSI and Serial ports which most don't need any more). It even overclocks extremely well...
For overclockers, the best reputation is the DFI Lan Party mobo. Not as many whistles and bells as the Asus, and it doesn't have 8 phase power, but it has by far the most control of OC controls...
If you want the best made, those are them...

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: pkme2

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: pkme2
'Pick any run-of-the-mill A64 X2-compatible motherboard and you're all set, pkme2.'
That's where I disagree with you. I'm trying to build a better system and this is your recommendation, that's really highschool thinking. You seem to know what you talking about but your intellectual approach seems to be......

Pick an Asus or DFI NForce 4 mobo. Other brands could also be picked, but Asus and DFI are safe bets at this time.

Now we're getting closer..

I don't get it... what do you want?

MechBgon already gave you a specific board yesterday.

What are you waiting for?

 

[pkme2]

Originally posted by: pkme2

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: pkme2
'Pick any run-of-the-mill A64 X2-compatible motherboard and you're all set, pkme2.'
That's where I disagree with you. I'm trying to build a better system and this is your recommendation, that's really highschool thinking. You seem to know what you talking about but your intellectual approach seems to be......

Pick an Asus or DFI NForce 4 mobo. Other brands could also be picked, but Asus and DFI are safe bets at this time.

Now we're getting closer..

So, all you want is the name of a good mobo...
Asus A8n32-SLI Deluxe is the best 1P mobo made at the moment for non-overclockers. It has 8 phase power (the most stable) and every possible whistle and bell you could want (with the exception of SCSI and Serial ports which most don't need any more). It even overclocks extremely well...
For overclockers, the best reputation is the DFI Lan Party mobo. Not as many whistles and bells as the Asus, and it doesn't have 8 phase power, but it has by far the most control of OC controls...
If you want the best made, those are them...

Well at last a model to work from. Thanks, Viditor, I'll do the research.

 

[SoundTheSurrender]

 

[SoundTheSurrender]

Get a Abit Kt7 133, that will fully utilize your dual cores.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: pkme2

Originally posted by: pkme2

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: pkme2
'Pick any run-of-the-mill A64 X2-compatible motherboard and you're all set, pkme2.'
That's where I disagree with you. I'm trying to build a better system and this is your recommendation, that's really highschool thinking. You seem to know what you talking about but your intellectual approach seems to be......

Pick an Asus or DFI NForce 4 mobo. Other brands could also be picked, but Asus and DFI are safe bets at this time.

Now we're getting closer..

So, all you want is the name of a good mobo...
Asus A8n32-SLI Deluxe is the best 1P mobo made at the moment for non-overclockers. It has 8 phase power (the most stable) and every possible whistle and bell you could want (with the exception of SCSI and Serial ports which most don't need any more). It even overclocks extremely well...
For overclockers, the best reputation is the DFI Lan Party mobo. Not as many whistles and bells as the Asus, and it doesn't have 8 phase power, but it has by far the most control of OC controls...
If you want the best made, those are them...

Well at last a model to work from. Thanks, Viditor, I'll do the research.

Originally posted by: mechBgon
Mobo is Asus A8N-E, if you just want a suggested mobo. But any equivalent mobo from any other maker would do the same job.

mechBgon gave you a model to work with quite a while ago.

 

[batmanuel]

I'd guess the big issue is the amount of memory bandwidth that the dual core X2 processors are getting compared to a high-end dual single-core Opteron board that feeds each processor from its own dedicated banks of dual channel memory. As has been noted, the cores of the X2s are going to be held back a little bit because they are sharing the same dual-channel memory banks, but it is not an amount that will be readily noticable in the real world.

If this "lack" of memory bandwidth is a concern for you, I'd recommend holding out for the new Socket AM2 A64 X2 processors that will support two channels of 667MHz DDR2 and have access to a scandalous amount of memory bandwidth. It's probably even enough bandwidth to keep a quad core processor happy, which is probably why AMD is going for the new socket and memory even though the current s939/DDR400 platform is fine for the X2s.

If you're running stock speeds though, just about any brand of nForce 4 board will run the processor as well as another one. As many have mentioned, the on-die memory controller has really removed the differences in memory performance between A64 boards, so it is really the secondary features that differentiate boards nowadays. Do you want SLI? Do you want full x16 bandwidth with your SLI cards, or is x8 fine? Do you need NCQ, RAID and firewire? Those are the real factors that determine which A64 mobo to buy, not processor or memory performance.

That's at stcok speeds, though. When you're overclocking, the quality of the board and the options available in the BIOS make a pretty major difference in how high you'll be able to push your processor. An Opteron 165 on a nice overclocking board and good cooling can in some cases outperform the fastest dual single core Opteron systems just by virture of sheer brute force clock speed. If you're staying at stock speeds, on the other hand, you won't see a major difference is processor performance between a DFI LanParty and a Fry's combo ECS board using a similar chipset.

 

[pkme2]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: pkme2

Originally posted by: pkme2

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: pkme2
'Pick any run-of-the-mill A64 X2-compatible motherboard and you're all set, pkme2.'
That's where I disagree with you. I'm trying to build a better system and this is your recommendation, that's really highschool thinking. You seem to know what you talking about but your intellectual approach seems to be......

Pick an Asus or DFI NForce 4 mobo. Other brands could also be picked, but Asus and DFI are safe bets at this time.

Now we're getting closer..

So, all you want is the name of a good mobo...
Asus A8n32-SLI Deluxe is the best 1P mobo made at the moment for non-overclockers. It has 8 phase power (the most stable) and every possible whistle and bell you could want (with the exception of SCSI and Serial ports which most don't need any more). It even overclocks extremely well...
For overclockers, the best reputation is the DFI Lan Party mobo. Not as many whistles and bells as the Asus, and it doesn't have 8 phase power, but it has by far the most control of OC controls...
If you want the best made, those are them...

Well at last a model to work from. Thanks, Viditor, I'll do the research.

Originally posted by: mechBgon
Mobo is Asus A8N-E, if you just want a suggested mobo. But any equivalent mobo from any other maker would do the same job.

mechBgon gave you a model to work with quite a while ago.

Maybe I wasn't satisfied with the answer and needed more input. You always seem to be there with your remarks, I have that mobo in my present rig,

 

[pkme2]

:thumbsup:
mechBgon