Mobile chips 2017: Qualcomm, Mediatek, Exynos and More

[jpiniero]

https://twitter.com/Krewell/status/999066049596162049

This guy claims that Samsung is already at 800+ wafers/day for 7 nm EUV. Of course no numbers on yield but I imagine it's better than Intel's 10 nm for sure.

 

[Nothingness]

Cortex-A76 officially announced:

https://developer.arm.com/products/processors/cortex-a/cortex-a76

ARM claim 40% better efficiency and 35% more performance than Cortex-A75.

 

[itsmydamnation]

Cortex-A76 officially announced:

https://developer.arm.com/products/processors/cortex-a/cortex-a76

ARM claim 40% better efficiency and 35% more performance than Cortex-A75.

In broad metrics, what we’re promised in actual products using the A76 is the follows: a 35% performance increase alongside 40% improved power efficiency. We’ll also see a 4x improvements in machine learning workloads thanks to new optimisations in the ASIMD pipelines and how dot products are handled. These figures are baselined on A75 configurations running at 2.8GHz on 10nm processes while the A76 is projected by Arm to come in at 3GHz on 7nm TSMC based products.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12785/arm-announces-cortexa76

Keeping almost the same clock while moving to 7nm is going to be alot of that ability to increase performance/efficiency. The far more interesting question would have been what those numbers look like at the same clocks/process. 0% more efficiency while having say 30% more performance is still a very good effort, i dont like the non apples to apples comparisons.

 

[Lodix]

Really nice job done by ARM.

 

[dark zero]

Wondering how Qualcomm and Samsung will improve it.

Maybe time for Samsung to think to use their Mongoose to ARM laptops along AMD GPUs?

 

[dark zero]

And time to add some interesting news...
On Spreadtrum page they shows 2 new SOCs with LTE which are basic but have the following specs
SC9832E

CPU: 4 x 1.3 Ghz Cortex A53
GPU: T820 MP1
Process: ?? nm

SC9863

CPU: 8 x 1.6 Ghz Cortex A55
GPU: ??
Process: ?? nm

Source: http://www.spreadtrum.com/en/index.html

Despite they are fillers, they are still interesting chips to see how big Spreadtrum is.

And meanwhile in Mediatek...
https://www.mediatek.com/products/smartphones/mediatek-helio-a22
Specs:
Helio A22

CPU: 4 x 2.0 Ghz Cortex A53
GPU: Power VR GE8320 (is the same that used on Helio P22)
Process: 12 nm

This one for me is the most interesting... a Snapdragon 800 on this years? Interesting...

 

[Nothingness]

What about Snapdragon 1000? https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...n-1000-qualcomms-chip-for-windows-10-laptops/

 

[dark zero]

What about Snapdragon 1000? https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...n-1000-qualcomms-chip-for-windows-10-laptops/

Indeed, maybe they reach Nehalem levels?

 

[Nothingness]

Indeed, maybe they reach Nehalem levels?

SD845 already is close to i7-920

 

[french toast]

I really hope Qualcomm or preferably ARM design an apple like wide core, not for mobile as such as it is wasted, but more for Windows emulation.
Better still have Microsoft be a sport and open up the windows on ARM market to all SOC makers, such as Nvidia Tegra, Samsung exynos, Huawei Kirin, maybe even mediatech?.

That would allow the innovation to really explode and pick performance up massively.
Cortex A76 looks really solid for mobile big cores, nice balance of performance and expected efficiency, I wonder what kind of clocks it could achieve in a Snapdragon 1000 12w type of device?

Also, how possible is it that microsoft improves emulation performance and also launches emulation of win 64 apps and games?

 

[Thala]

Also, how possible is it that microsoft improves emulation performance and also launches emulation of win 64 apps and games?

1) Emulation performance is technically excellent - its superior to any other emulation technology like QEMU. We talking only factor 2-3 slower than native. Of course with 2-3 slower than native you will see the reviewers crying, as they only run emulated benchmarks. I doubt that emulation technology can be any further improved.
2) They better not emulate x64 since emulation is stop-gap solution. You never make system successful taking factor 2-3 hit. For Win 64 apps developers better re-compile ARM64- in particular since this is trivial. With Visual Studio this is essentially press of a button - and typically not harder than compile a x86 app for x64.

 

[NTMBK]

1) Emulation performance is technically excellent - its superior to any other emulation technology like QEMU. We talking only factor 2-3 slower than native. Of course with 2-3 slower than native you will see the reviewers crying, as they only run emulated benchmarks. I doubt that emulation technology can be any further improved.
2) They better not emulate x64 since emulation is stop-gap solution. You never make system successful taking factor 2-3 hit. For Win 64 apps developers better re-compile ARM64- in particular since this is trivial. With Visual Studio this is essentially press of a button - and typically not harder than compile a x86 app for x64.

Oh, sure, so long as you don't use any libraries that are not available on ARM. And you don't use any x86 specific code (like SSE intrinsics). And you don't get tripped up by some subtle difference in the memory model, resulting in a horrible bug that takes weeks to hunt down.

 

[french toast]

1) Emulation performance is technically excellent - its superior to any other emulation technology like QEMU. We talking only factor 2-3 slower than native. Of course with 2-3 slower than native you will see the reviewers crying, as they only run emulated benchmarks. I doubt that emulation technology can be any further improved.
2) They better not emulate x64 since emulation is stop-gap solution. You never make system successful taking factor 2-3 hit. For Win 64 apps developers better re-compile ARM64- in particular since this is trivial. With Visual Studio this is essentially press of a button - and typically not harder than compile a x86 app for x64.

What are the chances of legacy apps and new games getting compiled for ARM64? Does not seem like a priority ATM.

 

[Thala]

What are the chances of legacy apps and new games getting compiled for ARM64? Does not seem like a priority ATM.

Chances of open source apps are high. For closed source legacy apps, which are not in active development anymore chances are non existent. For the rest, i guess that depends.

 

[Thala]

Oh, sure, so long as you don't use any libraries that are not available on ARM. And you don't use any x86 specific code (like SSE intrinsics). And you don't get tripped up by some subtle difference in the memory model, resulting in a horrible bug that takes weeks to hunt down.

I have yet to see an code path for SSE intrinsics, which is not available as pure C/C++ pendant. For libraries the above said holds as well, and there are not any differences in the memory model you would care about at application level outside of trying to do your own thread synchronisation without using OS primitives.

 

[dark zero]

And here we go!

Snapdragon 632

CPU: 8x Kryo 250 (1.8 GHz) - Aparently is 4X ARM A72 and 4X ARM A53
GPU: Adreno 506
Process: 14 nm

Snapdragon 439

CPU: 8x Cortex-A53 (1.95 GHz)
GPU: Adreno 505
Process: 12 nm

Snapdragon 429

CPU: 4x Cortex-A53 (1.95 GHz)
GPU: Adreno 504
Process: 12 nm

Source: https://www.gsmarena.com/snapdragon_632_439_and_429_official-news-31898.php

So, Helio A22 and P22 have competition.
And the poor Snapdragon 800 and 801 finally will be phased out.

 

[dark zero]

I revive the thread.

Samsung just launched a MID tier processor on this moments...

Exynos 7884A

CPU: 2X ARM A73 at 1.35 Ghz and 6X ARM A53 at 1.35 Ghz
GPU: ?? (posible Mali G71 MP1)
Process: ?? nm (posibly14 nm)

Source: https://www.gsmarena.com/verizon_just_released_an_eightcore_samsung_galaxy_j3_v-news-31987.php
https://www.verizonwireless.com/prepaid/smartphones/samsung-galaxy-j3-3rd-gen-prepaid/

---

WHY SAMSUNG??? WHY?

Sorry for shouting, but they have a processor which is already better than the 7870 by miles and they didn't put this on the Galaxy A6 or the J8.

 

[dark zero]

And no one talked about this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaUA_sq4ZJo

Wondering how this chip performs....
Also... is recommended to create a thread with the speculation saying: "nVIDIA is ready to start the Windows on ARM adventure?"??

 

[Asterox]

And time to add some interesting news...
On Spreadtrum page they shows 2 new SOCs with LTE which are basic but have the following specs
SC9832E


SC9863


Source: http://www.spreadtrum.com/en/index.html

Despite they are fillers, they are still interesting chips to see how big Spreadtrum is.

And meanwhile in Mediatek...
https://www.mediatek.com/products/smartphones/mediatek-helio-a22
Specs:
Helio A22


This one for me is the most interesting... a Snapdragon 800 on this years? Interesting...

It is intresting, that in the end Xiaomi for new Redmi 6A picks Helio A22/12nm, but not Snapdragon 429/12nm.

https://www.qualcomm.com/products/snapdragon-429-mobile-platform

Redmi 5A

- Qualcomm Snapdragon 425/Quad Core ARM Cortex A53 CPU 1.4ghz, 28nm

https://www.qualcomm.com/products/snapdragon/processors/425

Redmi 6A

- Mediatek Helio A22/Quad Core ARM Cortex A53 CPU 2ghz, 12nm

https://www.mediatek.com/products/smartphones/mediatek-helio-a22

Jump from very old 28nm to 12nm is very big, especially for reducing SoC power usage or 48% lower power consumption.

 

[IntelUser2000]

Oh, sure, so long as you don't use any libraries that are not available on ARM. And you don't use any x86 specific code (like SSE intrinsics). And you don't get tripped up by some subtle difference in the memory model, resulting in a horrible bug that takes weeks to hunt down.

+1

Compatibility issues exist among variants of Windows. The worst was back with Vista, because the move to NTFS was a big change.

Some applications require everything to be almost exact, and any deviation results in messing it up. You can see it in reviews showing it does have compatibility issues.

 

[french toast]

It is intresting, that in the end Xiaomi for new Redmi 6A picks Helio A22/12nm, but not Snapdragon 429/12nm.

https://www.qualcomm.com/products/snapdragon-429-mobile-platform

Redmi 5A

- Qualcomm Snapdragon 425/Quad Core ARM Cortex A53 CPU 1.4ghz, 28nm

https://www.qualcomm.com/products/snapdragon/processors/425

Redmi 6A

- Mediatek Helio A22/Quad Core ARM Cortex A53 CPU 2ghz, 12nm

https://www.mediatek.com/products/smartphones/mediatek-helio-a22

Jump from very old 28nm to 12nm is very big, especially for reducing SoC power usage or 48% lower power consumption.

Could be that they realise that they are a big player in the budget segment and decided to diversify the SOC manufacturers, so they guarentee plenty of competition by sharing the revenue around, instead letting Qualcomm swallow it all up.
Having competition means in future they can keep pricing down.
Edit; Where are both SOC manufactured? Looks like global foundries, unless Samsung has a 12nm line.

 

[dark zero]

It is intresting, that in the end Xiaomi for new Redmi 6A picks Helio A22/12nm, but not Snapdragon 429/12nm.

https://www.qualcomm.com/products/snapdragon-429-mobile-platform

Redmi 5A

- Qualcomm Snapdragon 425/Quad Core ARM Cortex A53 CPU 1.4ghz, 28nm

https://www.qualcomm.com/products/snapdragon/processors/425

Redmi 6A

- Mediatek Helio A22/Quad Core ARM Cortex A53 CPU 2ghz, 12nm

https://www.mediatek.com/products/smartphones/mediatek-helio-a22

Jump from very old 28nm to 12nm is very big, especially for reducing SoC power usage or 48% lower power consumption.

That is because the Snapdragon 429 came near 1 month later.
And that is Qualcomm fault.
Anyways... Snapdragon 429 and 439 will go for Motorola and Sony next year

 

[dark zero]

While Mediatek made the New Helio A22 the new bare minimun they sell, Hisilicon released the Kirin 710...

The specs are:

4X ARM A73 @2.2Ghz
4X ARM A53 @1.7Ghz
Mali G51 MP4 @ ??? Mhz
12 nm

https://www.google.com.pe/amp/s/m.g...i_arrives_philippines_kirin_710-amp-32286.php


EDIT: At least is MP4... and there are rumors that the chip itself is capped by 2 GPU cores and underclocked.

 

[dark zero]

And as a rumor mill..

Mediatek P80 and 90 on their way...

https://www.androidauthority.com/mediatek-helio-p80-p90-896066

And seem to be finally ARM A75 and 55.
RUMOR TIME!
So time to guess the specs for these succesors...
Helio P80

4X ARM A75 @2.0Ghz
4X ARM A55 @2.0Ghz
Mali G76 MP4 @ 800 Mhz
AI chip
VPU
10nm

Helio P90

4X ARM A75 @2.5Ghz
4X ARM A55 @2.0Ghz
Mali G76 MP8 @ 900 Mhz
AI chip
VPU
10nm

Why 4 and not 2 cores? Well, is because using the same design for 2 models are cheaper to do. Also, locking some features are enough for them..

Also.. if that is the top tier, time to guess the succesors of Helio A22 and P22 and yeah... using the same design for them works too.

Helio P22 successor

2X ARM A75 @2.0Ghz
6X ARM A55 @2.0Ghz
Mali G76 MP3 @ 800 Mhz
AI Chip
12nm

Helio A22 high tier successor

2X ARM A75 @2.0Ghz
2X ARM A55 @ 2.0Ghz
Mali G76 MP3 @ 700 Mhz
12nm

Helio A22 low tier successor

4X ARM A55 @ 2.0Ghz
Mali G76 MP2 @ 600 Mhz
12nm

I am supposing that they might use the design that used the Exynos 7885 and the Snapdragon 710 on the lower tiers.

 

[Asterox]

Could be that they realise that they are a big player in the budget segment and decided to diversify the SOC manufacturers, so they guarentee plenty of competition by sharing the revenue around, instead letting Qualcomm swallow it all up.
Having competition means in future they can keep pricing down.
Edit; Where are both SOC manufactured? Looks like global foundries, unless Samsung has a 12nm line.

Snapdragon 429 and Helio A22 is probably on TSMC 12nm/FFC. Again this is a very big leap for the cheapest smartphone devices and tablets or Android TV Box, vs old 28nm trash.

http://www.tsmc.com/english/dedicatedFoundry/technology/16nm.htm