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Mitch & Company want to raise Gas Taxes

Lost_in_the_HTTP said:
www.businessinsider.com

The White House rejects increasing the gas tax to fund infrastructure, arguing it puts a bigger burden on average Americans

"We're not going to accept it," Psaki said on Monday. The GOP favored indexing the gas tax to inflation, which could boost gas prices.
www.businessinsider.com www.businessinsider.com


That's the one thing that can hurt their base of losers more than most anything else.
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Finally something I agree with the GOP on, although Biden is smart to avoid it because it’s terrible politics.

Every single tax that exists should be indexed to inflation - there is no reason not to.
 
I'm of mixed opinion about this. I can understand why the Biden White House is rejecting it. They pledged to not raise taxes for ordinary Americans, only the wealthy. OTOH, higher gas prices are not a bad thing. It encourages the adoption of hybrids and EV's, and it encourages less driving among those who don't make the switch.
 
fskimospy said:
Finally something I agree with the GOP on, although Biden is smart to avoid it because it’s terrible politics.

Every single tax that exists should be indexed to inflation - there is no reason not to.
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So you agree that the burden of paying for the infrastructure should fall onto the backs of the average working stiff?

Hell the rich don't even know how much a gallon of gas costs, 'their people' fuel up the limos, and private jets. Corporations don't care, they just used trickle-down economics model and pass it down onto the backs of working stiffs.
 
fskimospy said:
Finally something I agree with the GOP on, although Biden is smart to avoid it because it’s terrible politics.

Every single tax that exists should be indexed to inflation - there is no reason not to.
Click to expand...

Same. There are a whole range of untaxed externalities concerning cars and driving. And cheap gas is the cause of a host of issues from suburban sprawl, underfunded public transit, congestion, inefficient/needlessly huge cars etc etc. Gas prices in the US should probably be (slowly) raised to something like double to account for the true cost. Heck we spent a trillion+ on a war to ensure cheap gas. A few cents per gallon isn't paying that back anytime soon!

But obviously the GOP is argue in extremly bad faith here! They know the "Biden, taxes, bad!" argument might ring hollow, if he were to say raise taxes on the top 1%. But more expensive gas always gets everyone riled up. This is a pure 2022/ 2024 play. A straight gas tax is also obviously very regressive, not to mention the issue of more efficient cars, that cause the same amount of road wear, but contribute less to infrastructure funding. A $/miles traveled tax is probably more appropriate.
 
woolfe9998 said:
It encourages the adoption of hybrids and EV's, and it encourages less driving among those who don't make the switch.
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That's hooey. First off, most of us cannot afford fancy new duracell copper top contraptions. I'm driving a 20 year old gasser and when it dies, I'll find another. Ain't no freakin' way I'm paying 90 Grand for something I need an extension cord for.

Second, they going after the buzzmobiles too -- seeking to tax by the mile to make up for loss of the road/fuel taxes on real cars.
 
MtnMan said:
So you agree that the burden of paying for the infrastructure should fall onto the backs of the average working stiff?

Hell the rich don't even know how much a gallon of gas costs, 'their people' fuel up the limos, and private jets. Corporations don't care, they just used trickle-down economics model and pass it down onto the backs of working stiffs.
Click to expand...
No, I agree that if we are going to have a gas tax, or any tax for that matter, it should be indexed to inflation. Like, sales taxes are indexed to inflation and nobody is mad about that.

If you want to make the tax code more progressive I’m on board with that but that doesn’t change the fact that flat fee taxes are dumb.
 
Lost_in_the_HTTP said:
That's hooey. First off, most of us cannot afford fancy new duracell copper top contraptions. I'm driving a 20 year old gasser and when it dies, I'll find another. Ain't no freakin' way I'm paying 90 Grand for something I need an extension cord for.

Second, they going after the buzzmobiles too -- seeking to tax by the mile to make up for loss of the road/fuel taxes on real cars.
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I said hybrids and EV's. I paid $21K for my Prius several years back. And EV's have gotten way down below "$90K." There are also state and federal tax credits for the EV's. Not sure where you're getting your info about the cost of these cars.
 
Lost_in_the_HTTP said:
Fuck 'transit'.
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Transit is great - we need lots more of it if we are going to address climate change.

See?? Told ya' the buzzmobiles weren't safe from government greed.
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Well if the goal is to maintain roads a mileage tax makes sense. Probably should tax gas vehicles more on top of that though. After all, gas vehicles have been polluting for free for years and I think we all agree if you pollute you should pay to clean it up.
 
Lost_in_the_HTTP said:
That's hooey. First off, most of us cannot afford fancy new duracell copper top contraptions. I'm driving a 20 year old gasser and when it dies, I'll find another. Ain't no freakin' way I'm paying 90 Grand for something I need an extension cord for.

Second, they going after the buzzmobiles too -- seeking to tax by the mile to make up for loss of the road/fuel taxes on real cars.
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And some of us don't want a brand spanking new anything. Sure they are nice, lots of new bells and whistles, and status, so you can try and impress people that don't give a damn about you in the first place.

What a fucking waste of money. You don't have to even drive off the lot to reduce the value by 25%, just the paperwork does that, for now it is a "used" vehicle.
 
ivwshane said:
I would make that dependent on whether or not minimum wage and other security nets are also indexed to inflation otherwise it’s a bigger burden on the poor and middle class.
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Yes - basically anything that is a fixed dollar amount instead of a percentage should be indexed to inflation.
 
Anyone have recent data on current federal excise gas tax revenue by state?
Knowing Mitch, this is probably another scheme to insure certain states subsidize other states and push cost of living increases towards those popular blue states that already have higher state gas taxes. with the infrastructure plan getting fed dollars, probably see R led states further reduce state and local taxes to cash in on the "Yall don't have to pay for anything when a Republican is in charge!" narrative.

Then in 2022, start pushing narrative how the Democrat led government raised taxes that hurt everyone and follow it up with rolling back the federal gas tax as soon as R's get the seat again.
 
woolfe9998 said:
I'm of mixed opinion about this. I can understand why the Biden White House is rejecting it. They pledged to not raise taxes for ordinary Americans, only the wealthy. OTOH, higher gas prices are not a bad thing. It encourages the adoption of hybrids and EV's, and it encourages less driving among those who don't make the switch.
Click to expand...

I think we need more Supply than we need encouragement. Approx 30% of Consumers desire an EC, but there is nowhere near enough ECs being manufactured to meet that Demand.
 
Lost_in_the_HTTP said:
Fuck 'transit'.

See?? Told ya' the buzzmobiles weren't safe from government greed.

But if they did a per mile tax INSTEAD of a per gallon tax, I might make out better since I drive so little.
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Taxes to pay for the things people clearly want, like roads, breathable air, cleaning up environmental messes, and wars to secure cheap gas is "greed"? In my mind wanting a bunch of free shit but crying when it's time to pay for it is "greed", and childish. My 6 year old understands that he needs money to get all the things he wants, but apparently a significant part of the electorate is less sophisticated.
 
While there are some good policy arguments to make in a vacuum, I'll agree on regressive gas tax increases once we raise taxes on corps and rich guy income fairly, and manage to find ourselves still in need of funds.

Until then, go agree Bezos et al.
 
Lost_in_the_HTTP said:
Fuck 'transit'.

See?? Told ya' the buzzmobiles weren't safe from government greed.

But if they did a per mile tax INSTEAD of a per gallon tax, I might make out better since I drive so little.
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And which vehicles damage roads the most? Heavy vehicles, which in turn get poor fuel economy.

I remember one of my first threads in P&N ever was about taxing vehicle weight, and moonbeam called me an idiot. Still a little salty about that 😀

But taxing fuel really wraps everything up into one neat little package - lightweight, fuel efficient vehicles, which don't damage roads much, will have high fuel economy, which in turn reduces the amount of gas you use, and therefore the amount of gas tax paid.

If you don't want to pay lots in gas and taxes, don't buy an F350 dually turbodiesel to cart around a single kid and make grocery runs.

Yes, I recognize any flat tax hurts the poor the most. At the same time, gas taxes haven't increased for what.... 30 years? So it needs to happen at some point. It's just a matter of how much.
Maybe raise the gas tax a little bit, but raise taxes that hit the wealthy the most.

And yes since EV vehicles don't use gas, there should be some sort of FRAND tax associated with mileage. But it still needs to be low enough to incentivize the adoption of EVs.
 
Biden should spend all of his on air time pointing out which party wants to tax or not tax whom to build a better America.

But if he is going to point out the Republican Party as the lap dogs of the 1% who care only for themselves should make sure the 1% doesn’t control the Democrats and make it clear.
 
I could see getting rid of the gas tax entirely if it were to be replaced with a registration fee that was based on weight, miles driven, and inflation or possibly annual road maintenance budget.

At some point the gas tax isn’t going to provide enough income to pay for road maintenance once enough EVs are on the road.

However what I don’t want is what Texas tried to pass that would have EVs paying 2-3 times in registration fees what a pickup truck pays in gas taxes + registration fees. It was only proposed to stupidly try and slow EV adoption.
 
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