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Mistakes made so far in this war ?

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HappyNic

Senior member
Oct 14, 2001
641
0
0
-We made a big rush to Baghdad then just stop 50 miles short,
-moving too fast for our own good, supply line too long
-too many friendly fire
-understimate our enemy
-too many media

Unfair,
Did you notice in the Media that whenever the Iragi kill US troop it was always shown in a Evil way, like they Ambush US, when it was clearly our own mistake for making a wrong turn, and went into their territory. And how they dress up like civilian and attack us, and Gurillia/ urban warfare and stuff. Since this is WAR, that's the best tactic they can use since they have no Air force, their Tanks are not as good as our tanks, their intel is not as good, and they are extemely out gun in every single way. Our weapons are so much better than theirs that we shouldn't judge them on how their tactics are Evil and unhonorable, they are just using whatever they can to defeat a enmey that's consider invading. If the US want to play honorable, then we shouldn't be using cruse missiles, Air bombarments, M1A1 abram tanks, e-bombs, etc .etc. This is WAR, we use what we can to kill our enemy.


 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
0
Originally posted by: HappyNic
-We made a big rush to Baghdad then just stop 50 miles short,
-moving too fast for our own good, supply line too long
-too many friendly fire
-understimate our enemy
-too many media

Unfair,
Did you notice in the Media that whenever the Iragi kill US troop it was always shown in a Evil way, like they Ambush US, when it was clearly our own mistake for making a wrong turn, and went into their territory. And how they dress up like civilian and attack us, and Gurillia/ urban warfare and stuff. Since this is WAR, that's the best tactic they can use since they have no Air force, their Tanks are not as good as our tanks, their intel is not as good, and they are extemely out gun in every single way. Our weapons are so much better than theirs that we shouldn't judge them on how their tactics are Evil and unhonorable, they are just using whatever they can to defeat a enmey that's consider invading. If the US want to play honorable, then we shouldn't be using cruse missiles, Air bombarments, M1A1 abram tanks, e-bombs, etc .etc. This is WAR, we use what we can to kill our enemy.
Did you really mean that the US is your enemy?



 

NightTrain

Platinum Member
Apr 1, 2001
2,150
0
76
Originally posted by: HappyNic
Our weapons are so much better than theirs that we shouldn't judge them on how their tactics are Evil and unhonorable, they are just using whatever they can to defeat a enmey that's consider invading.
"Iraqi paramilitary forces in Basra fired mortars and machine guns Friday on a "couple of thousand" Iraqi civilians trying to leave the besieged city, forcing many panicked people to retreat, British military officials and witnesses said."

I fail to see how this has anything to do with how good our weapons are nor why it should not be condemned.
 

HappyNic

Senior member
Oct 14, 2001
641
0
0
Originally posted by: NightTrain
Originally posted by: HappyNic
Our weapons are so much better than theirs that we shouldn't judge them on how their tactics are Evil and unhonorable, they are just using whatever they can to defeat a enmey that's consider invading.
"Iraqi paramilitary forces in Basra fired mortars and machine guns Friday on a "couple of thousand" Iraqi civilians trying to leave the besieged city, forcing many panicked people to retreat, British military officials and witnesses said."

I fail to see how this has anything to do with how good our weapons are nor why it should not be condemned.
hmm perhaps of how powerful our weapons are they are scare to come out and fight us in the open and get KIA, so they want as much civilian as they can to use them as cover, knowing very well that we don't want to fire at any of the civilian. It may not look good, but that would be better than fighting the US in the open, and getting kill.
 

StormRider

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2000
8,324
2
0
The biggest mistake occurred when we didn't finish the 1st Gulf War. It was a big mistake to stop the war, leave Saddam in power and put in sanctions against Iraq to try to prevent Saddam from gaining more WMD. Plus, by not going in and finishing the job, we stood by while Saddam slaughtered the Shiite uprising that occurred in South Iraq. We should have gone in and finished it. Instead, by having 10 years of sanctions against Iraq, we've become the bad guys (you're killing Iraqi babies!) and we've made one of the most ruthless dictators in the world into a hero to the Arab world.

By leaving Saddam in place, we also had to have our forces stay in Saudi Arabia (to enforce the no-fly zones) -- this created future enemies like bin Ladin.

And now I think we've compounded the mistake. This was not the time to confront Saddam. There is too much hatred in the Middle East against us to finish the war against Saddam now. Terrorists are like cock roaches. We should kill all of them but that won't solve the problem. We also have to clean our kitchen so it won't breed any more cockroaches. All we've done so far is to kill the cockroaches. We haven't done any cleaning yet. And that cleaning must start with resolving the Israli/Palistinian problem. What we should do is to kill cockroaches (like the war in Afghanistan), then do some cleaning, then do more killing of cockroaches followed by more cleaning.

The current administration seems blind to me. They don't seem to understand the level of hatred against us now. It really would have been nice if we had more of the world with us in this war. We could really use both France's and Germany's help in the peace keeping.
 

HappyNic

Senior member
Oct 14, 2001
641
0
0
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: HappyNic
-We made a big rush to Baghdad then just stop 50 miles short,
-moving too fast for our own good, supply line too long
-too many friendly fire
-understimate our enemy
-too many media

Unfair,
Did you notice in the Media that whenever the Iragi kill US troop it was always shown in a Evil way, like they Ambush US, when it was clearly our own mistake for making a wrong turn, and went into their territory. And how they dress up like civilian and attack us, and Gurillia/ urban warfare and stuff. Since this is WAR, that's the best tactic they can use since they have no Air force, their Tanks are not as good as our tanks, their intel is not as good, and they are extemely out gun in every single way. Our weapons are so much better than theirs that we shouldn't judge them on how their tactics are Evil and unhonorable, they are just using whatever they can to defeat a enmey that's consider invading. If the US want to play honorable, then we shouldn't be using cruse missiles, Air bombarments, M1A1 abram tanks, e-bombs, etc .etc. This is WAR, we use what we can to kill our enemy.
Did you really mean that the US is your enemy?

The US is not my enemy, this ain't no "either you are will us or againist us", I'm somewhere in the middle.
I'm just stating that in WAR you do what you can, there's really nothing honorable about it. When reading the last part of my post it does sound like that, but the We=USA in that one. :eek:,, I'm not good with words. :)
 

StormRider

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2000
8,324
2
0
Originally posted by: StormRider
The biggest mistake occurred when we didn't finish the 1st Gulf War. It was a big mistake to stop the war, leave Saddam in power and put in sanctions against Iraq to try to prevent Saddam from gaining more WMD. Plus, by not going in and finishing the job, we stood by while Saddam slaughtered the Shiite uprising that occurred in South Iraq. We should have gone in and finished it. Instead, by having 10 years of sanctions against Iraq, we've become the bad guys (you're killing Iraqi babies!) and we've made one of the most ruthless dictators in the world into a hero to the Arab world.

By leaving Saddam in place, we also had to have our forces stay in Saudi Arabia (to enforce the no-fly zones) -- this created future enemies like bin Ladin.

And now I think we've compounded the mistake. This was not the time to confront Saddam. There is too much hatred in the Middle East against us to finish the war against Saddam now. Terrorists are like cock roaches. We should kill all of them but that won't solve the problem. We also have to clean our kitchen so it won't breed any more cockroaches. All we've done so far is to kill the cockroaches. We haven't done any cleaning yet. And that cleaning must start with resolving the Israli/Palistinian problem. What we should do is to kill cockroaches (like the war in Afghanistan), then do some cleaning, then do more killing of cockroaches followed by more cleaning.

The current administration seems blind to me. They don't seem to understand the level of hatred against us now. It really would have been nice if we had more of the world with us in this war. We could really use both France's and Germany's help in the peace keeping.
Also, Bush and company seems to have not learn any lessons from history. The level of protests against this war was unprecedented. I've never seen so many people come out for peace protests. This should have indicated to Bush that people are ambivalent about this war. This war has too many moral ambiguities for me. I don't like the policy of preemptive strikes (unless we are already at war). We should never start a war unless we have the full backing of public opinion. That's something we should have learned from Vietnam. And another thing we should have learn is to not to underestimate the enemy. We should have had more forces in the area first before we started rolling in.
 

flavio

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,823
0
76
Originally posted by: Mrburns2007
1. Allowing Iraqi TV to stay on the air ( nothing like seeing the civilian casulties used as propagnada by Iraq plus they inflame the arab street )
I believe knocking out their television was a Geneva Convention violation.

 

HappyNic

Senior member
Oct 14, 2001
641
0
0
Originally posted by: flavio
Originally posted by: Mrburns2007
1. Allowing Iraqi TV to stay on the air ( nothing like seeing the civilian casulties used as propagnada by Iraq plus they inflame the arab street )
I believe knocking out their television was a Geneva Convention violation.

Me think so too:)
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
Originally posted by: lowtech
Originally posted by: ToBeMe
Well, this one is Iraq's mistake...................................

Several TV news services now reporting the missiles which landed in Baghdad market and residential areas seem to have been Iraqi SAMS which missed their targets, armed, and then fell back to earth and detonated.................................Iraq as pretty much confirmed this by replacing it's air defense minister for gross mistakes. (i.e., he's probably dead by now!;))
Are you sure it is Iraq missiles?
Or, it is just another lie from your propaganda machine?
It is hard to determine what info is the correct one, because 120 destroyed Iraqi tank convoy turned out to be 3. And, the Iraqi people that cheering the US/Brits turn out to be none. As for the liberation of one of Iraqi major city turn out to be untrue, and the WMD so far hasn't turn up.
So the video showing the cheering was magically fake or what?

 

JellyBaby

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2000
9,159
1
81
The first mistake was God allowing dinosaurs to die beneath the ground in the middle east. She's funny that way, though.

The next mistake was made by the victors of WW1 and WW2 taking grand priviledge in the spoils of war.

The third mistake was the creation of an artibrary nation out of a block of desert.

The next mistake was the ill conceived forced expansion of a certain political philosophythroughout part of Europe and Asia.

The fifth mistake was agressive world expansion by another type of political philosophy to counter the previous mistake.

You can argue some of these mistakes aren't. You can argue there was no choice but to counter one bad thing with another bad thing.

All I can tell you is Operation Iraqi Freedom won't end the cycle. Yet sometimes, when you don't know how best to make your next move but you realize you must make one, all you can do is hope for the best.
 

steell

Golden Member
Sep 2, 2001
1,569
0
76
Originally posted by: StormRider
Originally posted by: StormRider
The biggest mistake occurred when we didn't finish the 1st Gulf War. It was a big mistake to stop the war, leave Saddam in power and put in sanctions against Iraq to try to prevent Saddam from gaining more WMD. Plus, by not going in and finishing the job, we stood by while Saddam slaughtered the Shiite uprising that occurred in South Iraq. We should have gone in and finished it. Instead, by having 10 years of sanctions against Iraq, we've become the bad guys (you're killing Iraqi babies!) and we've made one of the most ruthless dictators in the world into a hero to the Arab world.

By leaving Saddam in place, we also had to have our forces stay in Saudi Arabia (to enforce the no-fly zones) -- this created future enemies like bin Ladin.

And now I think we've compounded the mistake. This was not the time to confront Saddam. There is too much hatred in the Middle East against us to finish the war against Saddam now. Terrorists are like cock roaches. We should kill all of them but that won't solve the problem. We also have to clean our kitchen so it won't breed any more cockroaches. All we've done so far is to kill the cockroaches. We haven't done any cleaning yet. And that cleaning must start with resolving the Israli/Palistinian problem. What we should do is to kill cockroaches (like the war in Afghanistan), then do some cleaning, then do more killing of cockroaches followed by more cleaning.

The current administration seems blind to me. They don't seem to understand the level of hatred against us now. It really would have been nice if we had more of the world with us in this war. We could really use both France's and Germany's help in the peace keeping.
Also, Bush and company seems to have not learn any lessons from history. The level of protests against this war was unprecedented. I've never seen so many people come out for peace protests. This should have indicated to Bush that people are ambivalent about this war. This war has too many moral ambiguities for me. I don't like the policy of preemptive strikes (unless we are already at war). We should never start a war unless we have the full backing of public opinion. That's something we should have learned from Vietnam. And another thing we should have learn is to not to underestimate the enemy. We should have had more forces in the area first before we started rolling in.
A couple of points here:
(1) The protests so far, can't hold a candle to the ones during the Viet Nam war
(2)Why do you (and so many others) believe that the US "makes" others hate us? It's just like tribal hatred taken to a higher level.

You really ought to do some research.

 

NightTrain

Platinum Member
Apr 1, 2001
2,150
0
76
Originally posted by: HappyNic
Originally posted by: NightTrain
Originally posted by: HappyNic
Our weapons are so much better than theirs that we shouldn't judge them on how their tactics are Evil and unhonorable, they are just using whatever they can to defeat a enmey that's consider invading.
"Iraqi paramilitary forces in Basra fired mortars and machine guns Friday on a "couple of thousand" Iraqi civilians trying to leave the besieged city, forcing many panicked people to retreat, British military officials and witnesses said."

I fail to see how this has anything to do with how good our weapons are nor why it should not be condemned.
hmm perhaps of how powerful our weapons are they are scare to come out and fight us in the open and get KIA, so they want as much civilian as they can to use them as cover, knowing very well that we don't want to fire at any of the civilian. It may not look good, but that would be better than fighting the US in the open, and getting kill.
They fired on their own people fleeing the city. Actually explaining why that is both evil and dishonorable would obviously be a waste of time.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Originally posted by: lowtech
Originally posted by: PreDatoR
Should have guessed that lowtech was canadian... nobody but the people over there in iraq fighting know the truth and even then i doubt they know 10% of the truth as to what is reported on the news... i'm to the point i don't give a sh!t kill them all and let allah sort em out... Just get our guys home safe.
Yes, I have been a Canadian since 1984, but before that I was a Vietnamese living through the Vietnam war. And, I have seen young men, the old, childrens and babies died because of war.

There is no just war, just more money for the rich that bring the war to the peasants.
You don't think that little skirmish in your homeland was just? OK. either way.. just war has underlying it a basic premise that may be inconsistant with the breath of the peasant's understanding. We figure (I) that when given freedom even the peasant will enjoy life in the manner we (I) do... as, I assume, you do now... at least I hope so.

 

flavio

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,823
0
76
Originally posted by: NightTrain
If 3 burglars break into my house with armloads of weapons, I won't shoot my kids.
Really? I bet if 3 burglars broke into an Iraqi house they wouldn't shoot their kids either.

 

ManSnake

Diamond Member
Oct 26, 2000
4,749
0
0
Originally posted by: NightTrain
If 3 burglars break into my house with armloads of weapons, I won't shoot my kids.
If 3 burglars broke into my house, I would use any means necessary to make them pay.

edit: the biggest mistake in this war? by starting it in the first place by our gung ho administration.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76

Yes, I have been a Canadian since 1984, but before that I was a Vietnamese living through the Vietnam war. And, I have seen young men, the old, childrens and babies died because of war.

There is no just war, just more money for the rich that bring the war to the peasants.[/quote]

You don't think that little skirmish in your homeland was just? OK. either way.. just war has underlying it a basic premise that may be inconsistant with the breath of the peasant's understanding. We figure (I) that when given freedom even the peasant will enjoy life in the manner we (I) do... as, I assume, you do now... at least I hope so.[/quote]

If I were to respond to my post I'd say .... yeah but, freedom don't matter if your dead. OR All you did was help Vietnamese kill Vietnamese... we lost millions you lost what 55,432 no thanks...
In two minds at times...

 

NightTrain

Platinum Member
Apr 1, 2001
2,150
0
76
A lot of honor goes out the window when you're grossly outmatched.
If you can come up with a reasonable explanation for why they are mortaring their own people fleeing a beseiged city, I'm all ears. Just be sure and check for fleas when you get up.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Originally posted by: ManSnake
Originally posted by: NightTrain
If 3 burglars break into my house with armloads of weapons, I won't shoot my kids.
If 3 burglars broke into my house, I would use any means necessary to make them pay.

edit: the biggest mistake in this war? by starting it in the first place by our gung ho administration.
I'd call the sheriff.... and the coroner. Nah... I'd read some poetry to them, make some Irish breakfast tea, you know break bread.. sorta

 

steell

Golden Member
Sep 2, 2001
1,569
0
76
Originally posted by: flavio
What research have you done?
Well. I could post 100 or so links, or I could list my personal experiences in Iraq/Iran/Israel/China/Philipines/Japan/Austalia/Germany/England/France/Italy/Belgium/Luxenburg/Russia/South America/Samoa/Korea/Viet Nam/etc, but I highly doubt that you would believe any of them.

BTW, I started traveling when I was 18, (and that was 34 years ago) and it is only in the last 10 years that I have settled down to staying in one area of the world :)



 

ManSnake

Diamond Member
Oct 26, 2000
4,749
0
0
Originally posted by: HJD1
Originally posted by: ManSnake
Originally posted by: NightTrain
If 3 burglars break into my house with armloads of weapons, I won't shoot my kids.
If 3 burglars broke into my house, I would use any means necessary to make them pay.

edit: the biggest mistake in this war? by starting it in the first place by our gung ho administration.
I'd call the sheriff.... and the coroner. Nah... I'd read some poetry to them, make some Irish breakfast tea, you know break bread.. sorta
The police stations in Iraq are all bombed, so I have to take matters into my own hands!
 

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