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Missouri Police Officer guns down unarmed 18 year old

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It is not worth using facts with certain people. They simply go with the first, idiotic story they heard and pretend that is the truth. News outlets reported cops show up and shoot kid with a toy gun and that's all people need to know. Doesn't matter if the gun looked real and he drew it after being told to put his hands up or that he pointed it at police.

The video is pretty good in showing what happened. You can see him walking around and not just waving the gun, but actually pointing it as if he is aiming it. As the police car pulls up the cop is yelling for him to show his hands (obviously, the yelling is not in the video as it has no audio). As the cop gets out, you can definitely see that the kid is pulling up his jacket and not putting his hands up.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/27/u...econds-after-pulling-up-next-to-him.html?_r=0

- Merg
 
It is not worth using facts with certain people. They simply go with the first, idiotic story they heard and pretend that is the truth. News outlets reported cops show up and shoot kid with a toy gun and that's all people need to know. Doesn't matter if the gun looked real and he drew it after being told to put his hands up or that he pointed it at police.


Did you watch the fucking video? There was less than 2 seconds between the car showing up in the video and the kid falling fatally wounded. If that was YOUR kid in the video, you would characterize it as an execution. The cop came out of the vehicle with a gun in his hand. The INSTANT the gun cleared the door, it was discharging. The kid was going to get shot no matter what he did.
 
Did you watch the fucking video? There was less than 2 seconds between the car showing up in the video and the kid falling fatally wounded. If that was YOUR kid in the video, you would characterize it as an execution. The cop came out of the vehicle with a gun in his hand. The INSTANT the gun cleared the door, it was discharging. The kid was going to get shot no matter what he did.

Uh no. The cop didn't shoot until the kid pulled up his jacket and was reaching for the gun. The cop was yelling at him to raise his hands as they approached in the vehicle. If he had never lifted his jacket up, he would probably still be here.

- Merg
 
Different case, you should really polish your reading skills! LOL!


I was referencing the kid in the park playing with a toy gun when a cop drove up and straight up executed him.

Did I say it was the same case? No. What I said is that you trying to show some class by admitting you're wrong is meaningless now because of your incredibly ignorant and troll post. The topic doesn't matter. What matters is that any respect you might have gained was just thrown out the window.

BTW, no one executed him. Troll on.
 
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Did you watch the fucking video? There was less than 2 seconds between the car showing up in the video and the kid falling fatally wounded. If that was YOUR kid in the video, you would characterize it as an execution. The cop came out of the vehicle with a gun in his hand. The INSTANT the gun cleared the door, it was discharging. The kid was going to get shot no matter what he did.

My only concern was how they pulled up on scene. That was some Bad Boys shit right there, I wonder if they came up that close on him on accident.

If that was your kid, perhaps some parental supervision would have prevented all of this.
 
Yes, let's just wait until an innocent person is killed, it's not like that hasn't happened multiple times since this event took place.

Innocent black people do get killed, but for some inexplicable reason morons have hitched their cart this to this losing bandwagon. Now you're stuck defending your very weak position and looking like a stubborn fool defending the indefensible rather than someone hoping to right a wrong.
 
Did you watch the fucking video? There was less than 2 seconds between the car showing up in the video and the kid falling fatally wounded. If that was YOUR kid in the video, you would characterize it as an execution. The cop came out of the vehicle with a gun in his hand. The INSTANT the gun cleared the door, it was discharging. The kid was going to get shot no matter what he did.

If it was my kid in the video, I'd feel as if I had failed as a parent, because I'd have attempted to teach my kid to a, not point realistic looking guns at people in parks and b, in the event you acted like an idiot and did the previous, don't attempt to grab it when police show up.

Of course the cops exited their vehicle guns drawn, there were reports of a fucking kid pointing a gun at people. Would you prefer they aren't allowed to touch their service weapons until after someone is shooting directly at them?

Yeah, the event is tragic, but was entirely avoidable by the victim. He acted inappropriately TWICE and sadly, the police acted exactly how you would expect them to: shoot at a suspect reaching for their gun.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un6_ZFho-Zs

this shit makes me sick. 99% of the people out there yelling and shouting couldn't even hold a minute debate over the topic. And trust me, the topic of police violence etc. etc. could go on for decades...yet here we have trolls who only show up to vent anger and freely exhibit bully behavior without consequence.

The SF police looked horribly unprepared, looks like small groups of cops are out alone and some cops are quick to lone-wolf it in a rowdy crowd. This is not a whole lot unlike watching a bunch of rude children at a zoo, poking and teasing the caged animals.
 
It is not worth using facts with certain people. They simply go with the first, idiotic story they heard and pretend that is the truth. News outlets reported cops show up and shoot kid with a toy gun and that's all people need to know. Doesn't matter if the gun looked real and he drew it after being told to put his hands up or that he pointed it at police.

I've learned in my life to question everything and even more so these days to question whatever the media reports and wait until there's factual information that backs up there claims. I have little trust in the witnesses that immediately go on media tours as there stories always get proven as not being truthful by evidence or other witnesses that chose not to go to the press.
 
Uh no. The cop didn't shoot until the kid pulled up his jacket and was reaching for the gun. The cop was yelling at him to raise his hands as they approached in the vehicle. If he had never lifted his jacket up, he would probably still be here.

- Merg

It's amazing. He takes great pains to make himself look foolish in so many ways regarding rights and riots in Ferguson, asks us not to bring that up, then does exactly the same thing with this shooting he's ranting about. Ignorance is NOT strength. Power for others, yes, but not strength.
 
My only concern was how they pulled up on scene. That was some Bad Boys shit right there, I wonder if they came up that close on him on accident.

If that was your kid, perhaps some parental supervision would have prevented all of this.
I also wonder if that was the most appropriate response. However, I suppose, in support of it, by not leaving a large distance between the officers and the person carrying a gun, you're not giving that person the opportunity to run - which could mean closing the distance between themself and a bystander and possibly taking a bystander hostage. I don't know if those sorts of things were going through the officers' heads, or if there is even a protocol that's followed for such things.
 
I also wonder if that was the most appropriate response. However, I suppose, in support of it, by not leaving a large distance between the officers and the person carrying a gun, you're not giving that person the opportunity to run - which could mean closing the distance between themself and a bystander and possibly taking a bystander hostage. I don't know if those sorts of things were going through the officers' heads, or if there is even a protocol that's followed for such things.

I was thinking about that as well. Although, the caller that made the call was at the Gazebo, so I have to wonder if the cops didn't think he was at the Gazebo as they drove up.

- Merg
 

The author provides comfort to your perspective. I do not and will not.

Not to overdo the medical metaphors, but as with those other cases noted above, so too in this one did a disturbing number of whites manifest something of a repetitive motion disorder—a reflex nearly as automatic as the one that leads so many police (or wanna-be police) to fire their weapons at black men in the first place. It is a reflex to rationalize the event, defend the shooter, trash the dead with blatantly racist rhetoric and imagery, and then deny that the incident or one’s own response to it had anything to do with race.

I should have responded the same as you did in the other thread:
"Can you summarize the [article]? Thanks. I knew it was a waste of time. It's funny how Pavlov's dog salivate when their masters ring the bell. I wonder how many other dogs went out and created similar [posts] as [this]."

The path of learning is not shut out and ignore things you find uncomfortable.

One thing I'm learning over the years is not to define other people based on the words of activists. Activists are salesmen. There is a reason why this was the first sentence of the article:
I suppose there is no longer much point in debating the facts surrounding the shooting of Michael Brown.

It gave him ample excuse not to mention the fact that the evidence strongly suggests Brown engaged the officer in a physical confrontation. Don't do that. Your chances of dying are very significantly reduced if you just follow that one piece of advice. When you demand to have a debate about the facts, you have to have a debate about all the facts, not confine your views to only a particular subset of facts, and be open to the possibility that you are not aware of all the facts. That's what makes it a debate. Otherwise you're just giving lectures. Lectures are not debates.

The article's sub-headline is:
Black people have to learn everything about white people just to stay alive.
What are the current statistics, 99.99999% of black people are not shot dead by white people? People who share the gene that produces black colored skin are doing a pretty damn good job of staying alive. But when you initiate another person in a physical confrontation, your chances of remaining alive diminish. That stat holds true for all people of all skin colors. These stats are facts. Let's include these facts within our debate.

That sub-headline also reinforces racism in itself. That sentence is confirming the author's belief that black people are different from white people. To someone who holds the view that white and black people differ only by one genetic marker, that statement is very odd to read. That genetic marker, to the best of my knowledge, does not produce different worldly views.


In the end there are two choices. Either (1) continue being angry, or (2) do something productive. Do something productive? Ha! What a fucking stupid white person thing to say! Don't like the police force? Become the police force. With Obama in the Presidency and Eric Holder in the Atty. Gen. seat (didn't he resign? Guess he still wants the job) there are no more excuses for anyone to reach out within these communities and gather unemployed or underemployed people who want to go through police training, provide the training, and get them hired onto the force when openings come up. No excuses.

I hope people chose the second option. Because the first option gives stronger voice to people like Spidey on the other side.
 
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Lulz, the Salon just made perhaps the most racist article right there. If one assumes that this incident wasn't due to whites being racists, then ipso facto, they are racists.
 
The author provides comfort to your perspective.



I should have responded the same as you did in the other thread:
"Can you summarize the [article]? Thanks. I knew it was a waste of time. It's funny how Pavlov's dog salivate when their masters ring the bell. I wonder how many other dogs went out and created similar [posts] as [this]."

One thing I'm learning over the years is never define other people based on the words of activists. Activists are salesmen. There is a reason why this was the first sentence of the article:


It gave him amble excuse not to mention the fact that the evidence strongly suggests Brown engaged the officer in a physical confrontation. Don't do that. Your chances of dying are very significantly reduced if you just follow that one piece of advice. When you demand to have a debate about the facts, you have to have a debate about all the facts, not confine your views to only a particular subset of facts, and be open to the possibility that you are not aware of all the facts. That's what makes it a debate. Otherwise you're just giving lectures. Lectures are not debates.

The article's sub-headline is:

What are the current statistics, 99.99999% of black people are not shot dead by white people? People who share the gene that produces black colored skin are doing a pretty damn good job of staying alive. But when you initiate another person in a physical confrontation, your chances of remaining alive diminish. That stat holds true for all people of all skin colors.

That sub-headline also reinforces racism in itself. That sentence is confirming the author's belief that black people are different from white people. To someone who holds the view that white and black people differ only by one genetic marker, that statement is very odd to read. That genetic marker, to the best of my knowledge, does not produce different worldly views.


In the end there are two choices. Either (1) continue being angry, or (2) do something productive. Do something productive? Ha! What a fucking stupid white person thing to say! Don't like the police force? Become the police force. With Obama in the Presidency and Eric Holder in the Atty. Gen. seat (didn't he resign? Guess he still wants the job) there are no more excuses for anyone to reach out within these communities and gather unemployed or underemployed people who want to go through police training, provide the training, and get them hired onto the force when openings come up. No excuses.

I hope people chose the second option. Because the first option gives stronger voice to people like Spidey on the other side.
Nice.

I actually tried to read the article but it was unreadable. Total nonsense. It hinted it would be with its subheading, of course.
 
Yes, let's just wait until an innocent person is killed, it's not like that hasn't happened multiple times since this event took place.
And yet in spite of these supposed "multiple" innocent blacks killed by racist white cops, we're still burning cities over a young man who attacked a cop and protesting over a young man who actually fired at a cop.

My only concern was how they pulled up on scene. That was some Bad Boys shit right there, I wonder if they came up that close on him on accident.

If that was your kid, perhaps some parental supervision would have prevented all of this.
Yep. Had they not pulled up so close, maybe they could have waited a bit to see if this kid actually was a threat before unloading on a perceived threatening motion to save themselves. Pull away seventy feet and a pistol is little threat, whereas it's hard to miss with that Mossberg. But as you say, perhaps that was accidental.

I'm all for cops going home safely - here in Chattanooga we had a cop (Julie Jacks) who refused to fire on a large, belligerent, mentally ill and/or drugged black man and he killed her with her own gun* - but some threat analysis and training is definitely needed. If the kid is shooting, take him down instantly. If the kid is not yet shooting, take a little time to try to talk him down.

* Julie Jacks tried to talk down this unarmed young man who tested positive only for marijuana but apparently either it was laced with an unidentified drug or he had a complete mental break-down. Instead, he attacked her, reached for and took her pistol, severely beat her with it and his fists, and shot her at least seven times, including a fatal execution style shot to the back of her head. White people did not riot or even protest. Cops did not shoot him when they showed up and arrested him. Go figure.
 
I was thinking about that as well. Although, the caller that made the call was at the Gazebo, so I have to wonder if the cops didn't think he was at the Gazebo as they drove up.

- Merg

Great point.

This explanation, if it fits, would help to clear up a lot of questions. I hope this gets asked of the cops to see what their intentions were that day.
 
I'm going to rip on ivwshane's salon article a little more.

Black people have to learn everything about white people just to stay alive.

What is the lesson in the Ferguson incident? What is the lesson in the Zimmerman/Martin incident? White people don't want to be physically assaulted by other people. No assault, no shooting.

How fucking racist is it of the Salon writer to think that this one bit of information about white people, which I would think is simple common sense, is too difficult for black people to comprehend? I personally believe people who have the genetic marker that produces black skin color are fully capable of understanding this desire of white people.

Black people don't want to be physically assaulted by others either. I understand that. We have the same desires. It should be very easy for black people to understand this about white people. It's not some grand mystery of the universe only white people are evolved enough to understand.
 
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I'm going to rip on ivwshane's salon article a little more.



What is the lesson in the Ferguson incident? What is the lesson in the Zimmerman/Martin incident? White people don't want to be assaulted by other people. No assault, no shooting.

How fucking racist is it of the Salon writer to think that this one bit of information about white people, which I would think is simple common sense, is too difficult for black people to comprehend? I personally believe people who have the genetic marker that produces black skin color are fully capable of understanding that desire of white people.

Ah but you see, us white people hate it more when a black person is assaulting us.
 
Ah but you see, us white people hate it more when a black person is assaulting us.

This. That marker that gives us the "white" pigmentation of the the skin also gives us special pain receptor that makes being punched in the face by a black person hurt more than than any other race.
 
If it was my kid in the video, I'd feel as if I had failed as a parent....

.....and my reaction would be in a completely different solar system. Knowing how I feel about my son, I am relatively confident that I would move heaven and earth to get my vengeance on the shooter AND the jackhole who called it in...... either within the legal system or outside of it if necessary.
 
It's so ludicrous.

Especially with the Ferguson incident.

If you don't want an officer following you - don't rob a store! That's the other lesson to be learned about white people. White people don't want people robbing other people. And it's not just white people. The store was owned by a brown person. That brown person didn't want Michael Brown robbing his store. People with brown skin color do not want to be assaulted, they do not want to be robbed.

Such massively complex and difficult concepts for the black brain to comprehend, according to the Salon author.


Here's another free bit of advice to any wannabe criminals out there: if you do rob a store, don't leisurely jaywalk down a street with the stolen merchandise in your hands for everyone to see. Your chances rise significantly of encountering a police officer who wants to arrest you.
 
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.....and my reaction would be in a completely different solar system. Knowing how I feel about my son, I am relatively confident that I would move heaven and earth to get my vengeance on the shooter AND the jackhole who called it in...... either within the legal system or outside of it if necessary.

So someone sees you son with what looks to be a gun walking and reports it in. Something bad happens and you get him or her. Correct?
 
.....and my reaction would be in a completely different solar system. Knowing how I feel about my son, I am relatively confident that I would move heaven and earth to get my vengeance on the shooter AND the jackhole who called it in...... either within the legal system or outside of it if necessary.

I seriously doubt you would get anywhere in the legal system as there's a video that backs the officer's story. Chances are strong that you would fail in the second scenario and your wife/remaining children would be burying you beside your son or having to visit you in prison for many long years.
 
I seriously doubt you would get anywhere in the legal system as there's a video that backs the officer's story. Chances are strong that you would fail in the second scenario and your wife/remaining children would be burying you beside your son or having to visit you in prison for many long years.

I have one son and if he is killed, I can honestly say that I wouldn't want to live. I don't even think it would be possible for me to live..... what would be the point?
 
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