Missouri Police Officer guns down unarmed 18 year old

[TechBoyJK]

Black panther racists are in full force on reddit today. You can't even remotely suggest the cop acted in self defense without getting slammed with racist comments and messages.

 

[highland145]

Actually we do know, well we know if you believe multiple eye witness accounts.

Do we ignore the people confirming the cops account? The articles say there are.

Back to who said what under oath to the GJ.

Except for one little problem, no witness (other than the officer & Conservative Tree House) has claimed Brown "charged" the officer, not even the unidentified guy caught on audio.

Sounds like he did 7:18

WITNESS (7:18 – 7:21): He, then dude started running, kept coming toward the police.

NSFW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=VdL9dqkyjhM#t=427

http://theconservativetreehouse.com...ss-account-aligns-with-darren-wilson-account/

 

[cabri]

Except for one little problem, no witness (other than the officer & Conservative Tree House) has claimed Brown "charged" the officer, not even the unidentified guy caught on audio.

Doubling down from the Martin incident.:hmm:

Conservative Tree House called the Martin incident correctly even though you kept denying the information being presented and going with the Crump PR stories.

Teenagers will do stupid things to "prove" a point to the smaller opponent that do not seem logical in hindsight.

If the thumb was bleeding (expected since there was blood inside the vehicle), a couple of blood drops will show a movement pattern.

Those blood drops will be different than the results of a shot to the body.

 

[ivwshane]

Do we ignore the people confirming the cops account? The articles say there are.

Back to who said what under oath to the GJ.

Sounds like he did 7:18

NSFW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=VdL9dqkyjhM#t=427

http://theconservativetreehouse.com...ss-account-aligns-with-darren-wilson-account/

You mean the accounts of unidentified witnesses? And your recalling of what the audio said was wrong.

 

[ivwshane]

Doubling down from the Martin incident.:hmm:

Conservative Tree House called the Martin incident correctly even though you kept denying the information being presented and going with the Crump PR stories.

Teenagers will do stupid things to "prove" a point to the smaller opponent that do not seem logical in hindsight.

If the thumb was bleeding (expected since there was blood inside the vehicle), a couple of blood drops will show a movement pattern.

Those blood drops will be different than the results of a shot to the body.

Yep! Only teenagers do stupid things, the police on the other hand? They never do stupid things, power and a gun never hurt native who didn't deserve to be hurt!

/s

Btw, Darren Wilson isn't some small man either.

 

[werepossum]

Again, no, not really. If brown died right then after being shot from within the car then you might have a point. The issue at hand isn't whether Wilson was justified in shooting brown initially, that issue, has too much doubt either way. What is at issue is whether Wilson, after firing and injuring brown, continued to shoot and kill a fleeing brown. At best it's excessive force, at worse it's murder.

This new info does nothing to clarify what happened initially as to who started the altercation and it doesn't do anything other than prove brown was shot before he fled the car.

The multiple autopsies proved that whatever happened, Wilson certainly did not continue to shoot and kill a fleeing Brown. Therefore your claim that this was either excessive force or murder is illegitimate.

How would it be highly unusual?

The reasonable scenario is that they struggle, Brown ends up "fleeing" while the cop recovers from being hit, gets out of his car, then chases and yells for Brown to stop. Brown stops, realizes he has taken the cop once and can take him again. From the pictures shown at CTH, which seem very plausible, Brown charges since he feels he can take the punk cop, cop retreats and starts to fire, eventually putting Brown down. There were shells *BEHIND* where Brown eventually fell, indicating that the first rounds fired were fired from a decent distance from where Brown was initially confronted.

Brown wasn't fleeing, he was ordered to stop and decided to fight. He was a fighter, the convenience store film clearly showed that.

You don't see even a teensy bit of difference between Brown pushing aside an unarmed eighty pound clerk and Brown charging a police officer firing at him? A police officer who in fact had just shot him once and from whom he'd undeniably run just seconds before?

I'm not saying that this isn't what happened, but to my mind the idea of Brown charging from thirty feet a cop already firing at him is just as outlandish as the idea of Wilson murdering in cold-blood a peaceful, surrendering Brown. Clearly one of those things happened more or less, but I don't think we can make any reasoned judgment at this point as to which one.

 

[highland145]

You mean the accounts of unidentified witnesses? And your recalling of what the audio said was wrong.

My recalling? No, I listened to it again and came to the same conclusion.

If the GJ info comes out then we'll know who was willing to swear in their statements.

Still saying no bill.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Still saying no bill.

Based on the info that's being released I believe the authorities (local, state, and federal) are preparing the people for a "No bill" decision from the Grand Jury as well as there not being federal civil rights charges filed by the DOJ either.

 

[cubby1223]

Black panther racists are in full force on reddit today. You can't even remotely suggest the cop acted in self defense without getting slammed with racist comments and messages.

If they all repeat it enough times it suddenly becomes the truth. That's the problem with all kinds of propaganda. At first it's an effective tool call people to action. But over time those who put out propaganda slowly transform to believe their own propaganda as truth.

 

[cubby1223]

Yep! Only teenagers do stupid things, the police on the other hand? They never do stupid things, power and a gun never hurt native who didn't deserve to be hurt!

Right... because we all are arguing that the extremes are the only possible explanations...

Teenagers do do stupid things. They are too young and too inexperienced at the complexities of the world. If I were asked how the world works, how people interact with each other, 15 years ago versus today the answers would be very, very different. And the way I respond to different situations is very different.

And to top it all off: Stop assuming everyone is making these posts to prove Wilson is innocent. Most are made to argue against those, including yourself, who heavily leaned towards (many assumed) Wilson guilty primarily on the basis of skin color.

Yes there are some who have assumed Wilson innocent largely on skin color, but we all recognize it too and disapprove of it too. But they do not give excuse for the rest of the BS that is pushed daily.

 

[ivwshane]

The multiple autopsies proved that whatever happened, Wilson certainly did not continue to shoot and kill a fleeing Brown. Therefore your claim that this was either excessive force or murder is illegitimate.


You don't see even a teensy bit of difference between Brown pushing aside an unarmed eighty pound clerk and Brown charging a police officer firing at him? A police officer who in fact had just shot him once and from whom he'd undeniably run just seconds before?

I'm not saying that this isn't what happened, but to my mind the idea of Brown charging from thirty feet a cop already firing at him is just as outlandish as the idea of Wilson murdering in cold-blood a peaceful, surrendering Brown. Clearly one of those things happened more or less, but I don't think we can make any reasoned judgment at this point as to which one.

No what proved brown was fleeing was his distance from Wilson, all accounts say brown fled from the vehicle, all accounts say brown turned around, most accounts say his hands were up, most accounts say he wasn't charging back towards Wilson but rather moved toward him.

The autopsy and the new info do nothing to disprove eye witness accounts and only confirm that brown went for the gun. Neither prove or disprove motives of the victim or the shooter.

Those are the facts, period. Adding anything more than that is pure opinion and can be countered with pure opinion.

 

[ivwshane]

Right... because we all are arguing that the extremes are the only possible explanations...

Teenagers do do stupid things. They are too young and too inexperienced at the complexities of the world. If I were asked how the world works, how people interact with each other, 15 years ago versus today the answers would be very, very different. And the way I respond to different situations is very different.

And to top it all off: Stop assuming everyone is making these posts to prove Wilson is innocent. Most are made to argue against those, including yourself, who heavily leaned towards (many assumed) Wilson guilty primarily on the basis of skin color.

Yes there are some who have assumed Wilson innocent largely on skin color, but we all recognize it too and disapprove of it too. But they do not give excuse for the rest of the BS that is pushed daily.

Did you see the post I was responding to?

 

[soundforbjt]

Yes, he did state that Brown charged Officer Wilson

http://theconservativetreehouse.com...ss-account-aligns-with-darren-wilson-account/

Don't see the word "charged" or "charging" anywhere in any identified witness statements , coming toward, staggering, stumbling, no chargimg.

 

[bshole]

Breaking news....... and this is huge!!!!

This is the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I am officially stating that this was a righteous shoot. End of story. Stick a fork in this dead horse.

It really is sad that these people could not speak out to the press because they feared for their safety. That is sad and SCAREY actually.

Over a half-dozen black witnesses who have testified before a grand jury deciding whether to indict the police officer who killed Michael Brown have provided testimony that "largely supports" Ferguson Police Officer Darren Wilson’s account of events, The Washington Post reported on Wednesday.

Sources told The Washington Post that seven or eight black witnesses gave testimony before the grand jury that was "consistent" with Wilson's account, but that none have spoken out publicly about what they witnessed because they fear for their safety.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/..._6030220.html?utm_hp_ref=politics&ir=Politics

 

[ivwshane]

No you didn't.

My recalling? No, I listened to it again and came to the same conclusion.

If the GJ info comes out then we'll know who was willing to swear in their statements.

Still saying no bill.

Person #1: Cause he ran up there where we was at, where we live at.

Person #2: Nah but when I came back outside, all I seen was the police, the truck, right there. Dude’s . . . I don’t know what happened. [interrupted]

Person #1: So whose hat is that right there?

Person #2: That’s his hat.

Person #1: How’d he get from there to here?

Person #2: Because he ran. The Police was still in the truck.

Person #1: They came this way?

Person #2: Nah, he was right there the police was still in the truck. He was like, I don’t know, runnin’ this way with his hands up. . . [unintelligible due to cross talk]

Person #2: Yeah, him and the police . . . . . the police was in the truck. He was fightin’ over the truck. So then he ran, the police got out and ran after him. The next thing I know he’s comin’ back towards him.The police had his gun drawn already.

Person #1 [interrupted last 3 words of last sentence] Oh the police got the gun?

[cross talk]

Person #2: The police kept dumpin him. I keep thinkin’ that the police missin’, like, he like, [cross talk]

Person #2: At least five shots, uhhh. The next thing I know I think he’s missin’.

Person #1: The Police?

Person #2: The police shot him.

[cross talk. Video skips frames]

Person #2: The police was like. . . at least 10 yards away. The dude was still standing. I’m thinkin’ he’s missin’ him. [cross talk] Then he kept comin’ towards him. [cross talk] Broke off running.

 

[ivwshane]

Breaking news....... and this is huge!!!!

This is the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I am officially stating that this was a righteous shoot. End of story. Stick a fork in this dead horse.

It really is sad that these people could not speak out to the press because they feared for their safety. That is sad and SCAREY actually.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/..._6030220.html?utm_hp_ref=politics&ir=Politics

Consistent with the initial altercation or the final act? There isn't much dispute over what happened initially, it's what happened after brown fled that matters.

 

[highland145]

No you didn't.

You mean you didn't which is fine.

 

[soundforbjt]

Breaking news....... and this is huge!!!!

This is the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I am officially stating that this was a righteous shoot. End of story. Stick a fork in this dead horse.

It really is sad that these people could not speak out to the press because they feared for their safety. That is sad and SCAREY actually.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/..._6030220.html?utm_hp_ref=politics&ir=Politics

Sources leaking testimony given before a Grand Jury?

Sounds like Sources need to go to jail, oops...probably the police or prosecutor's dept did the leaking, so no jail for them.

 

[highland145]

Breaking news....... and this is huge!!!!

This is the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I am officially stating that this was a righteous shoot. End of story. Stick a fork in this dead horse.

It really is sad that these people could not speak out to the press because they feared for their safety. That is sad and SCAREY actually.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/..._6030220.html?utm_hp_ref=politics&ir=Politics

Sad and scary but not unexpected. Snitches get stitches.

 

[highland145]

Sources leaking testimony given before a Grand Jury?

Sounds like Sources need to go to jail, oops...probably the police or prosecutor's dept did the leaking, so no jail for them.

Some type of punishment for sure. But the leaks won't be identified, the reporters won't be forced to give them up.

 

[soundforbjt]

No you didn't.

But, you didn't use TCH's "volunteer"
decoder ring !

 

[Attic]

Fortunately for those with the faculties to think clearly, the opportunity on this incident now is as good as it's ever been.


The racists and fools aren't really important anymore, their engine to drive this thing is out of gas. Not a religious man, but thank god.

 

[highland145]

Based on the info that's being released I believe the authorities (local, state, and federal) are preparing the people for a "No bill" decision from the Grand Jury as well as there not being federal civil rights charges filed by the DOJ either.

Trying to limit the collateral damage to the city when it comes out.

 

[werepossum]

No what proved brown was fleeing was his distance from Wilson, all accounts say brown fled from the vehicle, all accounts say brown turned around, most accounts say his hands were up, most accounts say he wasn't charging back towards Wilson but rather moved toward him.

The autopsy and the new info do nothing to disprove eye witness accounts and only confirm that brown went for the gun. Neither prove or disprove motives of the victim or the shooter.

Those are the facts, period. Adding anything more than that is pure opinion and can be countered with pure opinion.

All the striking shots were fired with Brown facing Wilson. Unless you are positing that black folks run backward from police, Brown was not shot while fleeing, period. Fleeing toward the officer cannot be fleeing from the officer. Charging Wilson or "moving toward" Wilson can be somewhat subjective, but clearly neither is fleeing from Wilson.

Just to flip and play Devil's advocate once again, Brown's thumb injury (I'm assuming it has been verified that the thumb injury was the one in/at the car) would also be consistent with a defensive wound, so that if Wilson drew his weapon and pointed it at Brown (to arrest him) with surprise, Brown's advantages of larger size, weight, and elevation might not be enough to allow him to gain control of the weapon before it discharged.

Breaking news....... and this is huge!!!!

This is the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I am officially stating that this was a righteous shoot. End of story. Stick a fork in this dead horse.

It really is sad that these people could not speak out to the press because they feared for their safety. That is sad and SCAREY actually.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/..._6030220.html?utm_hp_ref=politics&ir=Politics

It's huge news IF it holds up. Right now this is merely more anonymous witnesses, and as by far the most people privy to this information are part of the system, it still deserves a healthy amount of skepticism.

I can completely understand why people could not speak of this to the press because they feared for their safety, but I can also completely understand why the government would benefit from this perception. I'm mindful of other cases such as Trayvon Martin where both sides floated things that are never documented. So until such information is released officially, I'm not taking a stand on it either way.

 

[highland145]

So until such information is released officially, I'm not taking a stand on it either way.

It's what we do, Mike. Now play nice and pick a random side.