Missouri Passes Prop. C - Gov cannot force you to buy healthcare

[nick1985]

:thumbsup:

 

[Fear No Evil]

BTW, Missouri gets $1.30 for every $1 they pay in, so even if those leeches refuse to pay taxes, cutting them off from federal spending would be a net win for America's productive taxpayers.

Poor people generally take in well more in Fed $$$ than they pay out as well. Are poor people 'leeches' and should they be cut off as well for a 'net win' for America?

 

[DaveJ]

I agree, but this is one of about half dozen problems I had with the healthcare bill. You can not force people to buy something unless they want to. Obama compared the analogy to auto insurance which is a big lie. Because I only have to buy auto insurance if I am going to drive a car. If people don't want to go to the doctor then they shouldn't have to pay. They needed a better system, but that part of bill was solely for us to pay for insurance for other people. I truly believe major portions of the healthcare bill would be ruled unconstitutional if challenged far enough to the supreme court.

Ah, you're one of those "I'm invincible, I *never* get sick!" people. That's great you don't want to buy insurance, but don't come crying to me when you break your ankle and end up with a $20k hospital bill. And don't expect any public assistance, either. You should have considered the possibility that you might get sick and planned for that contingency.

If we had government-provided basic care available, your not having insurance wouldn't be a problem. But hey we're Americans (fuck yeah!), we can't follow the examples set by the rest of the world, so instead we end up with a system that relies almost solely on private industry to pick up the slack. If you don't have insurance, why should anyone else be expected to pay for your medical needs?

You also seem to miss the point of insurance entirely. It's not a zero-sum game, when you buy insurance you're paying premiums to ensure that you're covered in case of an accident, but since you're not constantly having accidents (hopefully), the premiums you pay go towards paying for others who need it.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Not really. We're a pretty evenly split state. Even Columbia (historically liberal college town) went 59% for Prop C.

This will definitely lead to a day in court, but it's more about expressing disapproval for how healthcare is being handled and the intrusion on individual and states rights.

Yes 667,680 71%
No 271,102 29%

 

[halik]

Hah I'm gonna pass a law for me that exempts me from federal mandates as well... woohoo.

Did they add the clause that hospitals can reject you without health insurance coverage? If you have a right to not carry insurance, hospitals need to have a right to leave yo' ass on the curb. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

[PeshakJang]

But hey we're Americans (fuck yeah!), we can't follow the examples set by the rest of the world, so instead we end up with a system that relies almost solely on private industry to pick up the slack..

The rest of the world that relies on American spending to keep costs low? The rest of the world that uses technology, drugs, and treatments developed in and paid for by the US? The rest of the world that year-over-year has countries that have continually lowered health care standards and increasing costs?

Yeah, let's follow that example and see what happens.

It's too bad we don't have government run health care... then we could all eat as many happy meals we want, sit in front of the TV as much as we want, drink and smoke as much as we want, and go outside as little as we want, and costs will stay low... well... because they will. Right..?

 

[Jaskalas]

^^^
I thinks he's saying the army the federal government maintains is more powerful than the army Missouri maintains, therefore the federal government has absolute authority over what the states do.

That's a wonderful way to run a military dictatorship, I mean Democracy.

 

[Jaskalas]

Meaningless. Missouri cannot pass laws that overall the federal one, so they've basically just done nothing.

Will of the people be damned.

 

[DaveJ]

The rest of the world that relies on American spending to keep costs low? The rest of the world that uses technology, drugs, and treatments developed in and paid for by the US? The rest of the world that year-over-year has countries that have continually lowered health care standards and increasing costs?

Yeah, let's follow that example and see what happens.

Lowered healthcare standards? Care to back that up with some facts? Last I checked many other countries provided a better quality of care than here in the US for a lot less.

If costs are so much cheaper in other countries, why is that? Do you have any specific examples of how we in the US subsidize prices for the rest of the world? Maybe it's because other countries have a much larger pool of users to draw on since everyone contributes to the system, so overall costs are lower.

It's too bad we don't have government run health care... then we could all eat as many happy meals we want, sit in front of the TV as much as we want, drink and smoke as much as we want, and go outside as little as we want, and costs will stay low... well... because they will. Right..?

Yeah, you're right, it is too bad. Maybe if we did Americans would be forced to change their habits. And maybe those who need healthcare through no fault of their own could actually get proper healthcare that they cannot get with our current system.

 

[ayabe]

Hah I'm gonna pass a law for me that exempts me from federal mandates as well... woohoo.

Did they add the clause that hospitals can reject you without health insurance coverage? If you have a right to not carry insurance, hospitals need to have a right to leave yo' ass on the curb. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

No Kit Bond will just beg more money from the feds or MO will cut back police enforcement to only be concerned with rounding up illegals.

 

[spidey07]

The important part here is the huge margin it passed by. The People are rejecting obamacare in mass.

 

[halik]

The important part here is the huge margin it passed by. The People are rejecting obamacare in mass.

Well of course, the 70 percent; of people have coverage and this bill doesn't do anything do much about premiums going up, and the other 30percent know that right now they can get treated w/o paying. If you were allowed to drive on public roads w/o insurance and then try to mandate insurance, you'd get the same sort of response

That doesn't mean there isn't a problem with the system...

 

[rudder]

BTW, Missouri gets $1.30 for every $1 they pay in, so even if those leeches refuse to pay taxes, cutting them off from federal spending would be a net win for America's productive taxpayers.

Take the top 1% of the earners out of California.. and see what kind of taxpayer sucking sound will be created. Stop with that lame argument of donor states having to pay more federal tax than they get in. Missouri is a rural state. There is no silicon valley there, yet they have the same Federal requirements to spend money as California.

 

[rudder]

The important part here is the huge margin it passed by. The People are rejecting obamacare in mass.

That is a good thing....

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...-worse-upon-further-review-kevin-hassett.html

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Meaningless. Missouri cannot pass laws that overall the federal one, so they've basically just done nothing.

There is no legal precedent which allows the federal govt. to force individuals to buy health care insurance. That's why lawsuits are progressing through the courts. That the federal government has the right to do so is by no means clear. Until the SCOTUS says otherwise the state law is as valid as the federal.

BTW, I think if Missouri didn't have to comply with federal mandates they wouldn't need any extra money. Let's have everyone there who's unhappy move to DC.

I'm thinking it's time that states rights make a comeback.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Maybe if we did Americans would be forced to change their habits

Why thank you "King" Dave.

 

[Atreus21]

Our federal government is held together by force of violence? Not sure how else I was supposed to read that.

To some extent that's true, but that's not why Jhhhn's comment was stupid.

 

[PricklyPete]

Shit...why am I moving away from Missouri?

 

[her209]

There is no legal precedent which allows the federal govt. to force individuals to buy health care insurance. That's why lawsuits are progressing through the courts. That the federal government has the right to do so is by no means clear. Until the SCOTUS says otherwise the state law is as valid as the federal.

BTW, I think if Missouri didn't have to comply with federal mandates they wouldn't need any extra money. Let's have everyone there who's unhappy move to DC.

I'm thinking it's time that states rights make a comeback.

The "mandate" is part of the tax code and states cannot selectively exempt their residents from certain parts of it.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

The "mandate" is part of the tax code and states cannot selectively exempt their residents from certain parts of it.

So if the government amended the tax code so you had to stand naked in a field, would that be Constitutionally valid?

 

[CallMeJoe]

Shit...why am I moving away from Missouri?

If you're moving to Upstate South Carolina from Saint Louis (as implied by your "location"), I can only assume late-onset sanity...

 

[BoberFett]

Poor people generally take in well more in Fed $$$ than they pay out as well. Are poor people 'leeches' and should they be cut off as well for a 'net win' for America?

Quiet peasant, that only applies when talking about red states, not blue voters.

 

[ayabe]

The skewed numbers are just due to the wing-nuts mobilizing their base. The D's in the state didn't try to fight it and more R seats were up for grabs leading to a higher R turnout.

So "We the people" meaning middle aged white conservative voters have spoken again with unsurprising results.

 

[nick1985]

The skewed numbers are just due to the wing-nuts mobilizing their base. The D's in the state didn't try to fight it and more R seats were up for grabs leading to a higher R turnout.

So "We the people" meaning middle aged white conservative voters have spoken again with unsurprising results.

The majority of Americans want this bill repealed. You can talk about skewing the numbers all you want, but you are a minority on the healthcare bill issue.

 

[bfdd]

BTW, Missouri gets $1.30 for every $1 they pay in, so even if those leeches refuse to pay taxes, cutting them off from federal spending would be a net win for America's productive taxpayers.

fuck your face only one goddamn state in this union gets less than it pays in one. it would be good for the CALIFORNIA tax payer.